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49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by cciowa:
and when we stat status quo or maybe add one piece like you want , and jimmy gets piledrived and we turn to cj than what? see, it works both ways

What's your plan? You have been whining for a month but have yet to lay out a realistic plan where the guys you have coming in will be any better than what we have.

I can say that about any position. Why even try to get better players since there is not guarantee they will be an upgrade? We should stand pat at every position.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by Giedi:
The zone blocking scheme can mislead you to think the line isnt effective *if* all the linemen are not on the same page. What may look like the OLineman got manhandled may simply be a misread of each others assignment. The run game got really going when Jimmy started at QB, because the DLinemen couldnt cheat against the run anymore. The Olines assignments got easier because of Jimmy. So you have to be careful to parse that out those missed assignment plays from the plays where they were really manhandled.

Logic isn't allowed in here. Some won't understand.

People need to watch clips of an outside zone scheme and see how essential it is that the 5 work in unison and how players block on the move or block and then release the linemen and the guard behind him blocks him. It's not a static line up and block the man infront of you with power.

Brown is such a mis-cast in this scheme we don't even run outside zone to his side because he simply cannot execute the plays.

The outside zone really works way better with a center thats mobile and can also have the strength to adequately handle the nose man by himself. Having said that, those kinds arent easy to find. You probably will have to draft or trade for a guy like that.
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Brown is going to be fine. I see them moving Brown to left tackle after they draft/acquire a more mobile right tackle. If anything, they might trade Staley instead of Brown when they have all the pieces they need on the OLine.

Never going to happen.

Brown is atrocious as a run blocker. Statistically the worst on our team.

You have been whining about Brown for awhile now but have yet to lay out a realistic plan where the guy you have coming in will be any better than what we have in Brown.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by English:
And additionally, which SteveYoung seems to have conveniently forgotten, Garoppolo had a number of fairly nasty tackles and sacks. And having seen how he can impact a game Defenses are going to make sure he gets a lot more next season. I simply cannot understand the attitude of posts who have watched inadequate qb's For years and now we finally have a good one, don't seem to care about protecting him.

The first priority this offseason is making sure the franchise qb is protected.

YES!

The best friend of a QB is a good strong run game.
Originally posted by Giedi:
The best friend of a QB is a good strong run game.

This.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by English:
And additionally, which SteveYoung seems to have conveniently forgotten, Garoppolo had a number of fairly nasty tackles and sacks. And having seen how he can impact a game Defenses are going to make sure he gets a lot more next season. I simply cannot understand the attitude of posts who have watched inadequate qb's For years and now we finally have a good one, don't seem to care about protecting him.

The first priority this offseason is making sure the franchise qb is protected.

YES!

The best friend of a QB is a good strong run game.

Agree but the the o-line sucks at run blocking.
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
You have been whining about Brown for awhile now but have yet to lay out a realistic plan where the guy you have coming in will be any better than what we have in Brown.

I really like Notre Dame's Mike McGlinchey. He would be an ideal zone tackle for Shanahan and fits his profile for a tackle to the T. He has ideal athletesism and can shift to LT when Staley leaves.

We could trade Brown to a team like SD for maybe their 3rd where their man up power scheme suits him better. And we won't have to pay 10 mil a year plus to a guy who doesn't fit our scheme.

Sign CB Trumaine Johnson
Sign G/C Weston Richburg

1.9. RT- Mike McGlinchey, ND
2.59. DE- Josh Sweat, FSU
3.70. LB- Darius Leonard, S. Carolina
3.74. G/C- Mason Cole, Michigan
3.84. f/m SD RB- Royce Freeman, Oregon
[ Edited by SteveYoung on Mar 8, 2018 at 7:46 PM ]
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
You have been whining about Brown for awhile now but have yet to lay out a realistic plan where the guy you have coming in will be any better than what we have in Brown.

I really like Notre Dame's Mike McGlinchey. He would be an ideal zone tackle for Shanahan and fits his profile for a tackle to the T. He has ideal athletesism and can shift to LT when Staley leaves.

We could trade Brown to a team like SD for maybe their 3rd where their man up power scheme suits him better. And we won't have to pay 10 mil a year plus to a guy who doesn't fit our scheme.

Sign CB Trumaine Johnson
Sign G/C Weston Richburg

1.9. RT- Mike McGlinchey, ND
2.59. DE- Josh Sweat, FSU
3.70. LB- Darius Leonard, S. Carolina
3.74. G/C- Mason Cole, Michigan
3.84. f/m SD RB- Royce Freeman, Oregon

Good ideas. All three potential inside starters worry me more than Brown though, they didn't seem to get any push. Do you think Richburg, Kilgore and Garnett will be able to get it done run blocking?
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
You have been whining about Brown for awhile now but have yet to lay out a realistic plan where the guy you have coming in will be any better than what we have in Brown.

I really like Notre Dame's Mike McGlinchey. He would be an ideal zone tackle for Shanahan and fits his profile for a tackle to the T. He has ideal athletesism and can shift to LT when Staley leaves.

We could trade Brown to a team like SD for maybe their 3rd where their man up power scheme suits him better. And we won't have to pay 10 mil a year plus to a guy who doesn't fit our scheme.

Sign CB Trumaine Johnson
Sign G/C Weston Richburg

1.9. RT- Mike McGlinchey, ND
2.59. DE- Josh Sweat, FSU
3.70. LB- Darius Leonard, S. Carolina
3.74. G/C- Mason Cole, Michigan
3.84. f/m SD RB- Royce Freeman, Oregon

Good ideas. All three potential inside starters worry me more than Brown though, they didn't seem to get any push. Do you think Richburg, Kilgore and Garnett will be able to get it done run blocking?
I don't think the problem is push. I think the 3 interior linemen aren't quick and agile enough.
Originally posted by Giedi:
The best friend of a QB is a good strong run game.

I heard different things:

A tight end
A great defense
a great o line

Which is it?

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
You have been whining about Brown for awhile now but have yet to lay out a realistic plan where the guy you have coming in will be any better than what we have in Brown.

I really like Notre Dame's Mike McGlinchey. He would be an ideal zone tackle for Shanahan and fits his profile for a tackle to the T. He has ideal athletesism and can shift to LT when Staley leaves.

We could trade Brown to a team like SD for maybe their 3rd where their man up power scheme suits him better. And we won't have to pay 10 mil a year plus to a guy who doesn't fit our scheme.

Sign CB Trumaine Johnson
Sign G/C Weston Richburg

1.9. RT- Mike McGlinchey, ND
2.59. DE- Josh Sweat, FSU
3.70. LB- Darius Leonard, S. Carolina
3.74. G/C- Mason Cole, Michigan
3.84. f/m SD RB- Royce Freeman, Oregon

Sorry, but I don't buy it. Our offensive line is doing just fine at the OT position for NOW. The Niners need to rebuild the interior of the line this year and next year we can worry about Staley's and Brown's future. I like the Sweat and Leonard picks, but the Niners could do much better than McGlinchey and Cole that early.
  • LVJay
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Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by English:
And additionally, which SteveYoung seems to have conveniently forgotten, Garoppolo had a number of fairly nasty tackles and sacks. And having seen how he can impact a game Defenses are going to make sure he gets a lot more next season. I simply cannot understand the attitude of posts who have watched inadequate qb's For years and now we finally have a good one, don't seem to care about protecting him.

The first priority this offseason is making sure the franchise qb is protected.

YES!

The best friend of a QB is a good strong run game.

Agree but the the o-line sucks.

FTFY

Jimmy G made us look good, period, the oline still needs a lot of help.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by pdizo916:
Originally posted by Giedi:
The best friend of a QB is a good strong run game.

I heard different things:

A tight end
A great defense
a great o line

Which is it?

1982 after winning super bowl 16, no run game, Joe basically was the offense and our record that year proves that you need a run game even if you are GOAT.
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Good ideas. All three potential inside starters worry me more than Brown though, they didn't seem to get any push. Do you think Richburg, Kilgore and Garnett will be able to get it done run blocking?

I don't understand where this idea of thinking is coming from.

The Niners were quite good on inside runs. We were ranked 7th in the league if I remember correctly on runs between the tackles and runs before contact. We were also ranked 15th in percentage of pressure allowed at around 32%. And that is with Hoyer and Beathard at QB.

Where we struggle is on outside zone runs where Hyde and Brown were especially bad.

It's like something becomes the main topic of conversation around here (like trashing Arik Armstead) and everyone does it even though it's not necessarily true. Our Oline, especially the interior, wasn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

To answer your question about Richburg, Kilgore and Garnett run blocking...absolutley. The outside zone isn't about blocking your man and pushing him with power in a 1 on 1 strength contest. It's about moving laterally and creating angles where the back can choose the correct lane based on where the defender is moving. That's why having a RB who can read that cutback lane is essential. And Hyde is not that guy.

Neither is Trent Brown at he was statistically the worst run blocker out of our line. He is a complete miscast. I like him but he isn't a fit and Shanahan's offense won't work if all 5 linemen can't work in unison and get to their zone and block a man.
[ Edited by SteveYoung on Mar 9, 2018 at 5:16 AM ]
This.

Both Tomlinson and Fusco are power blockers built to block in a phone booth. That's why we ranked quite well on inside runs but it's not what Shanahan wants to run.

But Richburg was one of the most athletic centers coming out and Garnett excelled at pulling and blocking in space.

I think Shanahan knows Garnett is a fit which is why he kept him around and told him to get to 300 which is Shannys ideal weight foe guards.

It's Brown who is literally the elephant in the room.
[ Edited by SteveYoung on Mar 9, 2018 at 5:20 AM ]
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