49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

I agree on adding a free agent to show the rookies what's up. I would rather get a cap victum over 30 on the cheap, instead of overpaying for a guy in his prime.

Have to save money somewhere!

Which is why Josh Sitton is ideal. 31 and playing still at a very high level and perfect scheme fit. 2-3 year deal is perfect.

Boom! You're hired! Let's hope he comes at a good price

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

I agree on adding a free agent to show the rookies what's up. I would rather get a cap victum over 30 on the cheap, instead of overpaying for a guy in his prime.

Have to save money somewhere!

Which is why Josh Sitton is ideal. 31 and playing still at a very high level and perfect scheme fit. 2-3 year deal is perfect.

Yep. A solid interior lineman can play at a high level well into his mid 30s. I wouldn't be scared to lock him up for several years yet.

With Kline back with Tenn, and Hubbard to the Browns, we have Sitton and Pugh left as options.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
It doesn't matter in the team economics it's about market value and what Brown believes he'd get on the open market.

Yes, it does work like that, the tackle market got reset after Osemele got paid tackle money for a guard. After that, tackles saw a jump.

Now, after Norwell there's no way a LT is gonna get paid less than a guard. If Brown believes he'd get picked up as a LT (which he would) he's not signing for less than LT money. Otherwise he leaves and gets paid a kings ransom from someone else.

Trenton Brown is not going to reset the RT market with LT or premier G money though.

And at the end of the day, it's about unit spend. How you allocate varies. Some pay big for T's, cheap inside. Some, big on C and G, go cheap and young at T. It just depends.

Eagles spent the most at $48M. After Richburg, we're barely climbing into average and we've seen the results over the years. You get what you pay for when it comes to the OL.

I agree, it's how the team values those positions. However, if you're T. Brown and you know you can go on the open market and become a team's premiere starting LT why would you agree to be paid solid RT money? He'd be a fool to do that or have to be absolutely, crazy, head over heels in love with SF.

He's not going to. A. Davis when he signed his extension years ago was paid near top T money for a RT.

Just because the team may only want to pay Brown 10-11 mil doesn't mean Brown accepts it.

Again, to prove the point, look at what Nate Solder just got....you gonna tell me that LT money went up by 50% and it had nothing to do with Norwell's contract?

Solder got 15.5 per...why? Because Norwell got 14 per.

You can't pay a Guard elite tackle money without upsetting your whole pay scale and the league's pay scale, for that matter. Why then, would J. Staley be ok with getting paid 7.7 when the guard next to him or on the other side is getting twice what he is?

The Eagles are at 48 - but they only have 900k in cap room and still will have to sign their rookie class and have their FQB on a rookie contract(7.7 cap figure) after releasing multiple players. You think after Wentz signs an extension in 2 years they'll still pay their OL 25% of the total cap?

The point of all that is to say that for us to have brought Norwell in we would've had to then wrap up almost 30 mil in just two players on the OL for long-term contracts. That's a lot of coin for just 2 guys. How about we draft the next Norwell instead of paying out the nose for one?

Originally posted by post_primitive:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by post_primitive:

Originally posted by Poldarn49:
The OL acquisitions seems to be more or less done until the draft. Getting another above-min free agent would make the longterm cost of the OL too high.

We have the 3 tackles for the season (Staly, Brown, Gilliam). We have the starting C (Richburg), and four others fighting for two starting spots (Garnett, Tomlinson, Kilgore, Magnusson). Add a veteran camp body (Beadles) and another three younger ones (Williams, Lauderdale, Murphy). That's 12, and assuming Beadles is kept until the end of the TC, we have roster spots for two vet min/UDFA types.

I don't follow your math. Most of those dudes won't make the team, especially if we bring in another solid vet or two. Those who do make the squad will be dirt cheap.

There's still plenty of latitude to upgrade. Josh Sitton, for example.

Yeah what we really have:

LOT: Joe Staley; Gary Gilliam
LG: GAPING HOLE
C: Weston Richburg; Daniel Kilgore
RG: GAPING HOLE
ROT: Trenton Brown; Darrell Williams Jr.

Agreed. That's a lot of gaping.

Personally, I would be ok with us rolling in to TC with Garnett, Magnusson and bringing Brandon Fusco back while spending a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a guard. Fusco was a pretty well ranked guard for us last year and we've shored up the C spot and then giving Garnett(he was a 1st round pick for a reason and all we saw of him was his rookie year when some OL guys SUCK their first year) Magnusson and a rook the chance to compete.

That's ideal to me. We'd have 3 guys less than 3 years in the league competing and working to earn a starting role while still having the elder statesman of Staley and other vets in Kilgore and Richburg to mentor these kids.

You bring back Fusco and there's only one gaping hole that has 3 decent options that all have the potential to turn into the next high caliber player.

Remember when Joe Staley fractured his face and Trent Brown got hurt? Our offensive line looked more like this

LOT: GAPING HOLE
LG: GAPING HOLE
C: GAPING HOLE
RG: GAPING HOLE
ROT: GAPING HOLE

Someone should make a compilation of all the hits CJ took for a few weeks. Poor guy. I would feel a lot more comfortable with a little more depth at Tackle. Joe Staley isn't getting any younger. As has been mentioned, we aren't sure if Trent Brown is going to be sticking around long term. He's awesome in pass protection, but might not be what we are looking for in the run game.

I don't know if it's possible, but it'd be cool to get a guy like Cameron Fleming so if one of the tackles gets hurt we still have a starter quality backup. Another FA interior guy would be nice too, but we might have to wait for the draft.

Originally posted by TheXFactor:
With Kline back with Tenn, and Hubbard to the Browns, we have Sitton and Pugh left as options.

I'm still holding out hope for Sitton.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Personally, I would be ok with us rolling in to TC with Garnett, Magnusson and bringing Brandon Fusco back while spending a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a guard. Fusco was a pretty well ranked guard for us last year and we've shored up the C spot and then giving Garnett(he was a 1st round pick for a reason and all we saw of him was his rookie year when some OL guys SUCK their first year) Magnusson and a rook the chance to compete.

That's ideal to me. We'd have 3 guys less than 3 years in the league competing and working to earn a starting role while still having the elder statesman of Staley and other vets in Kilgore and Richburg to mentor these kids.

You bring back Fusco and there's only one gaping hole that has 3 decent options that all have the potential to turn into the next high caliber player.

Agree, because this would mean Shanahan is comfortable with these guys and can work with them. He's had one year for evaluation and surely has a clear idea what is needed going forward. If he uses a first round pick on OL it will mean he's very worried and can't stand still for the line as is. My guess is that he believes h is scheme and play calling will help the OL succeed...rather than investing as we did with Iupati and Davis.

Originally posted by TheXFactor:
With Kline back with Tenn, and Hubbard to the Browns, we have Sitton and Pugh left as options.

I'm really hoping for Sitton!

That is exactly why we need an OG in FA, unless Kyle flat out doesn't like what he sees. After today tho, one OT with 14 mil per followed by another at $15 mil per. Sheesh. We don't know but it may be a reason we have not signed an OG. Maybe they are involved in holding up the entire NFL.

However if that is the case, then as most all know there is terrific talent at OG (and CB) from #20 to 60–70 range. Also we could slop out and have Nelson there, but chance of that are poor. It is a remote possibility. Assuming he isn't in the 20s we could grab a very good OG, all the way to. Mason OG/C at Iowa who is projected to be their at 70, 8 picks into rd 3. Maybe we get surprised and have 2 of our first 3 picks be OGs.

Garnett? I like him but don't know how he has done rehab wise. I hope 100%. But don't count on him for starting OG, but let him fight it out with our two new OGs(yet to be picked........i hope). Best man starts. Fine by me if its Garnett. But don't count on him to start. Let him prove that in OTAs, TC, and PS. The worst that could happen is he ends up a starter on the bench. I hope so which means we get two more guys who are OG starting material. And we got a starter on the bench, along with magnus (he has to earn it) and Williams at OT. Hard to believe Kilgore, or laken start, let along make the squad. And Fsco is gone, yes? If it is hard for JL to sign a couple more OGs this yr, just wait til next when there isn't the crop then that there is here. Now or never and we have to protect our franchise, #10.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
That is exactly why we need an OG in FA, unless Kyle flat out doesn't like what he sees. After today tho, one OT with 14 mil per followed by another at $15 mil per. Sheesh. We don't know but it may be a reason we have not signed an OG. Maybe they are involved in holding up the entire NFL.

However if that is the case, then as most all know there is terrific talent at OG (and CB) from #20 to 60–70 range. Also we could slop out and have Nelson there, but chance of that are poor. It is a remote possibility. Assuming he isn't in the 20s we could grab a very good OG, all the way to. Mason OG/C at Iowa who is projected to be their at 70, 8 picks into rd 3. Maybe we get surprised and have 2 of our first 3 picks be OGs.

Garnett? I like him but don't know how he has done rehab wise. I hope 100%. But don't count on him for starting OG, but let him fight it out with our two new OGs(yet to be picked........i hope). Best man starts. Fine by me if its Garnett. But don't count on him to start. Let him prove that in OTAs, TC, and PS. The worst that could happen is he ends up a starter on the bench. I hope so which means we get two more guys who are OG starting material. And we got a starter on the bench, along with magnus (he has to earn it) and Williams at OT. Hard to believe Kilgore, or laken start, let along make the squad. And Fsco is gone, yes? If it is hard for JL to sign a couple more OGs this yr, just wait til next when there isn't the crop then that there is here. Now or never and we have to protect our franchise, #10.

We haven't even started shopping through the 2nd tier F/A's

This line is a Josh Sitton away from being competent.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

I agree, it's how the team values those positions. However, if you're T. Brown and you know you can go on the open market and become a team's premiere starting LT why would you agree to be paid solid RT money? He'd be a fool to do that or have to be absolutely, crazy, head over heels in love with SF.

He's not going to. A. Davis when he signed his extension years ago was paid near top T money for a RT.

Just because the team may only want to pay Brown 10-11 mil doesn't mean Brown accepts it.

Again, to prove the point, look at what Nate Solder just got....you gonna tell me that LT money went up by 50% and it had nothing to do with Norwell's contract?

Solder got 15.5 per...why? Because Norwell got 14 per.

You can't pay a Guard elite tackle money without upsetting your whole pay scale and the league's pay scale, for that matter. Why then, would J. Staley be ok with getting paid 7.7 when the guard next to him or on the other side is getting twice what he is?

The Eagles are at 48 - but they only have 900k in cap room and still will have to sign their rookie class and have their FQB on a rookie contract(7.7 cap figure) after releasing multiple players. You think after Wentz signs an extension in 2 years they'll still pay their OL 25% of the total cap?

The point of all that is to say that for us to have brought Norwell in we would've had to then wrap up almost 30 mil in just two players on the OL for long-term contracts. That's a lot of coin for just 2 guys. How about we draft the next Norwell instead of paying out the nose for one?

Yeah, Norwell got $13.3 which is standard for premier G play. Solder, same for LT's. That hasn't changed at all. I totally agree in your allocation point. If you throw big money, even top 2 Center money at a player, it could affect your balance of pay later. So that has to be taken into consideration but if you look at the unit spends, you get what you pay for.

In the end, all it takes is one team to be convinced Brown will be their LT to get LT money despite playing his whole career at RT.

But as a RT today, he's in the RT bucket like Solder at LT and Richburg at C and they were paid according to their buckets.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Personally, I would be ok with us rolling in to TC with Garnett, Magnusson and bringing Brandon Fusco back while spending a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a guard. Fusco was a pretty well ranked guard for us last year and we've shored up the C spot and then giving Garnett(he was a 1st round pick for a reason and all we saw of him was his rookie year when some OL guys SUCK their first year) Magnusson and a rook the chance to compete.

That's ideal to me. We'd have 3 guys less than 3 years in the league competing and working to earn a starting role while still having the elder statesman of Staley and other vets in Kilgore and Richburg to mentor these kids.

You bring back Fusco and there's only one gaping hole that has 3 decent options that all have the potential to turn into the next high caliber player.

Fusco signed with Atlanta and I have sads. Sitton visiting Miami.

Originally posted by Moses:

Remember when Joe Staley fractured his face and Trent Brown got hurt? Our offensive line looked more like this

LOT: GAPING HOLE
LG: GAPING HOLE
C: GAPING HOLE
RG: GAPING HOLE
ROT: GAPING HOLE

Someone should make a compilation of all the hits CJ took for a few weeks. Poor guy. I would feel a lot more comfortable with a little more depth at Tackle. Joe Staley isn't getting any younger. As has been mentioned, we aren't sure if Trent Brown is going to be sticking around long term. He's awesome in pass protection, but might not be what we are looking for in the run game.

I don't know if it's possible, but it'd be cool to get a guy like Cameron Fleming so if one of the tackles gets hurt we still have a starter quality backup. Another FA interior guy would be nice too, but we might have to wait for the draft.

Dude was the sacrificial lamb. Tough as nails.