49ers Offensive Line

i like the fact the kid we drafted is versatile. maybe he will be a pleasant surprise and maybe we will get something in year two with my man ross reynolds

Originally posted by bzborow1:

Possibly. If I'm not mistaken, Shanahan doesn't seem to place a high value on interior lineman in draft capital terms. Based on his track record, he seems to place high value on T, DL and a lower value on CB, IOL. Maybe that is just the circumstances. I don't think IOL was considered a plus in this draft to begin with so I don't hold it against them this time.

Don't forget when they took over the team was desperate for WRs as they all sucked. To that end, he's put a critical focus in WRs and he's had to sacrifice IOL to do it.

You're absolutely right. That old school team building philosophy goes back to his dad's days. He'll invest in T and C and use get-by guys and stellar OL training by Benton to make due with a far heavier focus on run blocking (McGlinchey over Brown) than pass protection. So collectively, we'll continue to see stellar run blocking and 21st ranked pass protection.

It's not the worst philosophy IMHO but pass protection has now cost him 2 Superbowls and he's staying the course. He's not likely to change.

But perhaps, by next year, the roster is so stacked and the needs so few and a top C/G or T to G is there at the end of the 1st like Ruiz, maybe he pulls a Payton. Maybe. Nah, who am I kidding. Haha.

Either way, it's still our #1 huge need/weakness.

Originally posted by cciowa:

i like the fact the kid we drafted is versatile. maybe he will be a pleasant surprise and maybe we will get something in year two with my man ross reynolds

Yeah, hopefully that 5th rounder and UDFA, Benton can make some headway with them both. I liked the raw skill set of Reynolds.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bzborow1:

Possibly. If I'm not mistaken, Shanahan doesn't seem to place a high value on interior lineman in draft capital terms. Based on his track record, he seems to place high value on T, DL and a lower value on CB, IOL. Maybe that is just the circumstances. I don't think IOL was considered a plus in this draft to begin with so I don't hold it against them this time.

Don't forget when they took over the team was desperate for WRs as they all sucked. To that end, he's put a critical focus in WRs and he's had to sacrifice IOL to do it.

You're absolutely right. That old school team building philosophy goes back to his dad's days. He'll invest in T and C and use get-by guys and stellar OL training by Benton to make due with a far heavier focus on run blocking (McGlinchey over Brown) than pass protection. So collectively, we'll continue to see stellar run blocking and 21st ranked pass protection.

It's not the worst philosophy IMHO but pass protection has now cost him 2 Superbowls and he's staying the course. He's not likely to change.

But perhaps, by next year, the roster is so stacked and the needs so few and a top C/G or T to G is there at the end of the 1st like Ruiz, maybe he pulls a Payton. Maybe. Nah, who am I kidding. Haha.

Either way, it's still our #1 huge need/weakness.

100%. And it wasn't just interior pressure either, JimmyG had 3 or 4 batted passes in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl as well.

Originally posted by bzborow1:

100%. And it wasn't just interior pressure either, JimmyG had 3 or 4 batted passes in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl as well.

Definitely. Jones did an incredible job by himself. If he didn't get instant pressure, stopping and watching which pass lane to be in and knocking it down. The problem is Person and Garland should still be engaged so he's not allowed to just stand there uncontested and watch the QB's eyes and jump uncontested.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by cciowa:
i like the fact the kid we drafted is versatile. maybe he will be a pleasant surprise and maybe we will get something in year two with my man ross reynolds

Yeah, hopefully that 5th rounder and UDFA, Benton can make some headway with them both. I liked the raw skill set of Reynolds.

the biggest thing that bothers me is we just assume the center will be healthy and if healthy he will be solid.... i just have never been sold on him

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I've yet to see even a decent debate to 3T being more important than IOL right now. I'd love to see one though but nobody's even attempted a case. Maybe somebody will.

tommyncal looked at the first round picks since the 2010 draft, AB81Rules looked at how Kyle gets contribution from late rounders or UDFA OL, I looked at the salaries paid. All of these points out why 3T being more important than IOL. I have yet to see even a decent counter argument from NCommand.

The problem is it's 2020 and C/G's are getting paid nearly as much as T's now and top pass rushers move all over the place. There is no LT > RT anymore and d/t the over abundance OF IDT's, it makes the interior even more important as the easiest path to the QB. And if you run a PA like us, IOL pass protection is vital. In fact, there's such an overabundance of IDT's guys like Suh are available every year in FA and trades and for CHEAP.

If you're looking at OUR system, our scheme, what's available on the market, it's far far easier to find a high caliber IDT than IOL. You'll rarely see a top OL even hit the market. That's just the landscape today.

As the old crusty GM's move out of the league and the younger ones come in, you'll see less of the old school mantra that T > C > G.

There's just too many good IDT pass rushers and ER's like Bosa and AA who move inside to take advantage of teams like us who have far lesser talent inside.

Did you check the numbers or did you just make stuff up? The top 15 OT 2020 salary average to $15.2M. The top 15 IOL 2020 salary average to $12.1M. We are talking about OT being paid over 25% more than IOL, and you consider this to be "IOL getting paid nearly as much as T"? I don't understand what is your motivation to BS your way to support an argument. If you are stubborn and any good argument can't change your mind, that is fine. That is your opinion. But to support your argument with fake information is just ridiculous.

If you are willing to say you made a mistake on the facts, just say it. We all make mistakes on checking the numbers. But if you are not willing to even admit you made a mistake on the facts, you got some problems.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by tommyncal:
Not to get involved in your debate with others but I was just curious. Since the 2010 draft (11 years), Round 1 picks through pick 25 (275 picks):
DT- 24
OG- 8
OC-7
I didn't include DE's or OT's. Don't need a reply, just thought I'd look it up. Not overwhelming numbers but if you took out the 'center' picks it would be. All teams seem to be hesitant to draft guards early in round 1.

Appreciate the lookup! No question...in college, if you're a big athletic dude, the odds of you wanting to play DL are far higher than OL. That will never change...but because of that, it's making IOL even more scarce a resource at the NFL and many average C/G's are making T money now because of this massive need. This is why I chuckle when fans try to diminish the importance of IOL. When guys like Bill Bellicheat are franchise tagging his G, that's pretty much all you need to know. It's best to get ahead of the league rather than playing catchup when it's too late.

You don't need to be a super star to be franchise tag. Teams are willing to pay more on a 1 year deal than commit a long term contract with large guarantees, even if the average pay per year is less. In addition, the player who aren't being franchise tag are going to be overpaid in the free agent market anyway. If the team wants to keep the player, franchise tag is convenient. For example, TE Hunter Henry. Is he is super star? No. No all pro, no pro bowl. He is a solid player for sure. Same case with S Anthony Harris. There are so many cases of solid players who are super stars to be franchise tag.

Franchise tag is unfair to IOL because the tag cost is for the whole OL group rather than breaking it into T, G, C, or T and IOL. However, when you have a super star guard who just came off the 2019 season as a second team all pro, it is still worthwhile to franchise tag him. This doesn't prove that IOL is all of a sudden as important as a OT. This is a bad example to try to prove your point, which seems specious to me and many in this forum.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I've yet to see even a decent debate to 3T being more important than IOL right now. I'd love to see one though but nobody's even attempted a case. Maybe somebody will.

tommyncal looked at the first round picks since the 2010 draft, AB81Rules looked at how Kyle gets contribution from late rounders or UDFA OL, I looked at the salaries paid. All of these points out why 3T being more important than IOL. I have yet to see even a decent counter argument from NCommand.

The problem is it's 2020 and C/G's are getting paid nearly as much as T's now and top pass rushers move all over the place. There is no LT > RT anymore and d/t the over abundance OF IDT's, it makes the interior even more important as the easiest path to the QB. And if you run a PA like us, IOL pass protection is vital. In fact, there's such an overabundance of IDT's guys like Suh are available every year in FA and trades and for CHEAP.

If you're looking at OUR system, our scheme, what's available on the market, it's far far easier to find a high caliber IDT than IOL. You'll rarely see a top OL even hit the market. That's just the landscape today.

As the old crusty GM's move out of the league and the younger ones come in, you'll see less of the old school mantra that T > C > G.

There's just too many good IDT pass rushers and ER's like Bosa and AA who move inside to take advantage of teams like us who have far lesser talent inside.

Did you check the numbers or did you just make stuff up? The top 15 OT 2020 salary average to $15.2M. The top 15 IOL 2020 salary average to $12.1M. We are talking about OT being paid over 25% more than IOL, and you consider this to be "IOL getting paid nearly as much as T"? I don't understand what is your motivation to BS your way to support an argument. If you are stubborn and any good argument can't change your mind, that is fine. That is your opinion. But to support your argument with fake information is just ridiculous.

If you are willing to say you made a mistake on the facts, just say it. We all make mistakes on checking the numbers. But if you are not willing to even admit you made a mistake on the facts, you got some problems.

LOL..."nearly as much"

Shows proof of "nearly as much."

There's literally 2 monster historic T contracts that make up the big difference of the two over the past 3-5 years.

How much are we paying OUR IOL. Get ready for a laugh.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

You don't need to be a super star to be franchise tag. Teams are willing to pay more on a 1 year deal than commit a long term contract with large guarantees, even if the average pay per year is less. In addition, the player who aren't being franchise tag are going to be overpaid in the free agent market anyway. If the team wants to keep the player, franchise tag is convenient. For example, TE Hunter Henry. Is he is super star? No. No all pro, no pro bowl. He is a solid player for sure. Same case with S Anthony Harris. There are so many cases of solid players who are super stars to be franchise tag.

Franchise tag is unfair to IOL because the tag cost is for the whole OL group rather than breaking it into T, G, C, or T and IOL. However, when you have a super star guard who just came off the 2019 season as a second team all pro, it is still worthwhile to franchise tag him. This doesn't prove that IOL is all of a sudden as important as a OT. This is a bad example to try to prove your point, which seems specious to me and many in this forum.

BuT G's aRe NoT IMpOrTant

HOF HC FT's his.

But hey, if you still subscribe to the 1970's that cool. You'd think the Superbowl would be enough evidence for you but like Kyle, maybe you'll never learn or change your way of thinking and adapt to today's game.

And if so, I don't wanna hear any b***hing about Jimmy Garoppolo. Deal?

Originally posted by NinerGM:

We'll see. There's still quite a bit of unknowns and some things need to work out perfectly but I'd say definitely better than where we were at the START of last season.

Definitely. At least we now know Coleman, Garland, Skule, Brunskill, etc. 3 of them last year were our only depth and were TOTAL unknowns!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I've yet to see even a decent debate to 3T being more important than IOL right now. I'd love to see one though but nobody's even attempted a case. Maybe somebody will.

tommyncal looked at the first round picks since the 2010 draft, AB81Rules looked at how Kyle gets contribution from late rounders or UDFA OL, I looked at the salaries paid. All of these points out why 3T being more important than IOL. I have yet to see even a decent counter argument from NCommand.

The problem is it's 2020 and C/G's are getting paid nearly as much as T's now and top pass rushers move all over the place. There is no LT > RT anymore and d/t the over abundance OF IDT's, it makes the interior even more important as the easiest path to the QB. And if you run a PA like us, IOL pass protection is vital. In fact, there's such an overabundance of IDT's guys like Suh are available every year in FA and trades and for CHEAP.

If you're looking at OUR system, our scheme, what's available on the market, it's far far easier to find a high caliber IDT than IOL. You'll rarely see a top OL even hit the market. That's just the landscape today.

As the old crusty GM's move out of the league and the younger ones come in, you'll see less of the old school mantra that T > C > G.

There's just too many good IDT pass rushers and ER's like Bosa and AA who move inside to take advantage of teams like us who have far lesser talent inside.

Did you check the numbers or did you just make stuff up? The top 15 OT 2020 salary average to $15.2M. The top 15 IOL 2020 salary average to $12.1M. We are talking about OT being paid over 25% more than IOL, and you consider this to be "IOL getting paid nearly as much as T"? I don't understand what is your motivation to BS your way to support an argument. If you are stubborn and any good argument can't change your mind, that is fine. That is your opinion. But to support your argument with fake information is just ridiculous.

If you are willing to say you made a mistake on the facts, just say it. We all make mistakes on checking the numbers. But if you are not willing to even admit you made a mistake on the facts, you got some problems.

LOL..."nearly as much"

Shows proof of "nearly as much."

There's literally 2 monster historic T contracts that make up the big difference of the two over the past 3-5 years.

How much are we paying OUR IOL. Get ready for a laugh.

Over 25% more is nearly as much? You got to be kidding me.

2 OT montster contract that make up the big difference. Even if you exclude those 2 contracts, as if those 2 players don't exist, the top 15 OT is still being paid over 16% more than IOL. Please do your math.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by libertyforever:
You don't need to be a super star to be franchise tag. Teams are willing to pay more on a 1 year deal than commit a long term contract with large guarantees, even if the average pay per year is less. In addition, the player who aren't being franchise tag are going to be overpaid in the free agent market anyway. If the team wants to keep the player, franchise tag is convenient. For example, TE Hunter Henry. Is he is super star? No. No all pro, no pro bowl. He is a solid player for sure. Same case with S Anthony Harris. There are so many cases of solid players who are super stars to be franchise tag.

Franchise tag is unfair to IOL because the tag cost is for the whole OL group rather than breaking it into T, G, C, or T and IOL. However, when you have a super star guard who just came off the 2019 season as a second team all pro, it is still worthwhile to franchise tag him. This doesn't prove that IOL is all of a sudden as important as a OT. This is a bad example to try to prove your point, which seems specious to me and many in this forum.

BuT G's aRe NoT IMpOrTant

HOF HC FT's his.

But hey, if you still subscribe to the 1970's that cool. You'd think the Superbowl would be enough evidence for you but like Kyle, maybe you'll never learn or change your way of thinking and adapt to today's game.

And if so, I don't wanna hear any b***hing about Jimmy Garoppolo. Deal?

Did you just say Kyle never learn or change his way of thinking and never adapt to today's game, and that he is still subscribe to the 1970s? Sorry, you just loss any of my remaining respect for you there.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Did you just say Kyle never learn or change his way of thinking and never adapt to today's game, and that he is still subscribe to the 1970s? Sorry, you just loss any of my remaining respect for you there.

Yes, I did. That's his proven philosophy going over 2 generations. And this year he did the same only investing in a 5th round T to G player and bringing in the all world Tom Compton in free agency (our only FA). So no, he hasn't learned. At all.

Does that mean it can't work out? Of course not. But if he hasn't seen the light by now, this is the way it's going to be going forward and we just have to hope the T and C play is supreme enough to off set low end to average G play poor in pass protection.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Over 25% more is nearly as much? You got to be kidding me.

2 OT montster contract that make up the big difference. Even if you exclude those 2 contracts, as if those 2 players don't exist, the top 15 OT is still being paid over 16% more than IOL. Please do your math.

LOL. You are aware the difference in $15M and $13M in APY is...phony money.

#NearlyAsMuch