49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

So basically 9ers needed to sign a FA guard, draft Wirfs and trade up for Ruiz. Only way they could have a satisfactory offseason.

Just one of those as long as he's a clear upgrade in talent.

For instance...

Immobile QB's:
Bucs get Wirfs for Brady
Saints get Ruiz for Brees
NE franchise tags their G
Raiders the most $ spent on OL
Even the Browns finally figured it out (despite a mobile QB) after going all skill position and trading their OL the year before

If you run a PA offense and you don't have a mobile QB, IOL pass protection is just a crucial as T become it equates to 5 and 7 step drops.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Just one of those as long as he's a clear upgrade in talent.

For instance...

Immobile QB's:
Bucs get Wirfs for Brady
Saints get Ruiz for Brees
NE franchise tags their G
Raiders the most $ spent on OL
Even the Browns finally figured it out (despite a mobile QB) after going all skill position and trading their OL the year before

If you run a PA offense and you don't have a mobile QB, IOL pass protection is just a crucial as T become it equates to 5 and 7 step drops.

Ruiz isn't even gonna start.

Browns and Bucs drafted TACKLES.

You just argued McGlinchey, Tomlinson and Richburg are awful pass blockers so how does Wirfs fix that?

This is the problem. You are so extreme with your narrative now you have to argue everything simultaneously. If the entire OLine is garbage at pass protection they all should've been replaced. Yet one guy and you are happy?

Guess Dallas is crazy not to replace Frederick with Ruiz and will instead let our castoff Joe Looney and a 4th rounder battle.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Exactly. Each team found a solution for their specific situation which is the goal - and what we did with acquiring Williams. I think Williams fits perfectly for our situation where we're trying to replace one pro bowler/blue chip player with another. It doesn't matter specifically what each team did for themselves in terms of a template. They won't be able to applied directly to our situation where we need(ed) a starting caliber RG and an upgrade or at least someone in development for center. I guess the plan will be at this stage to pray/hope Benton finds more gems in UDFAs.

Did it with Brunskill. Been saying all offseason he's the starting right guard.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
...but you don't take guards top 15 unless they are straight up Larry Allen... Wirfs is not larry Allen.

That very philosophy is exactly what cost us the Superbowl. And it's still going today.Very true. But until today, what guard were you taking that early? I will say this, I hope you invest in a guard early next year. Not only because I want to improve pass protection, but we may need a player that can play G/C with Richburg's injury and we play in a division with Aaron Donald. They have made some moves however and I can honestly say this position group is better than it was last year, assuming Williams is ready to go at the start of the season. We upgraded at RG (Brunskill > Person) and although this is an assumption, if Williams is ready to go, at worst, he is equal to Staley. Also some solid depth at tackle and new blood at guard.

Very true. But until today, what guard were you taking that early? I will say this, I hope you invest in a guard early next year. Not only because I want to improve pass protection, but we may need a player that can play G/C with Richburg's injury and we play in a division with Aaron Donald. They have made some moves however and I can honestly say this position group is better than it was last year, assuming Williams is ready to go at the start of the season. We upgraded at RG (Brunskill > Person) and although this is an assumption, if Williams is ready to go, at worst, he is equal to Staley. Also some solid depth at tackle and new blood at guard.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Where did we upgrade?

Trent Williams is an upgrade over Joe Staley in 2020 at a key position on the OL.

McKivitz provides competition at right guard. Either Brunskill gets better or he gets replaced.

Competition is a natural motivator to improve anyone's skill and it should do the same at the RG position.

Sure it's possible that McKivitz falls on his face, But even so, the fact that we drafted a potential starting RG puts anyone competing for that position on notice.

Is it really that hard to improve on Person as a pass blocker.

I mean, upgrades as in upgrades over starters.

Trent Williams, when healthy plays at a similar level as Staley (top 5 T) so lets call that even.

Tomlinson is still Tomlinson and he still sucks at pass protection.

Richburg is still another year, another major injury

Brunskill is a total unknown as a 16 game starter and Tom Compton and a 5th rounder are his "competition"

McGlinchey is still McGlinchey and consistently a great run blocker and shoddy pass protector

We did not upgrade one starting position. We swapped one out and added depth/competition and might actually be far worse if Richburg (injury), Williams (year out of the NFL) and Brunskill (not as stable as Person) aren't what we thought.

How is Brunskill a total unknown as a 16 game starter, yet he has actually played in NFL games and looked like the best OL out there every time he started, yet you are pounding the table for a rookie at 13? What is more unknown than a rookie?

McKivitz and Brunskill

Sounds good for the oline

Originally posted by NCommand:
I mean, upgrades as in upgrades over starters.

Trent Williams, when healthy plays at a similar level as Staley (top 5 T) so lets call that even.

Tomlinson is still Tomlinson and he still sucks at pass protection.

Richburg is still another year, another major injury

Brunskill is a total unknown as a 16 game starter and Tom Compton and a 5th rounder are his "competition"

McGlinchey is still McGlinchey and consistently a great run blocker and shoddy pass protector

We did not upgrade one starting position. We swapped one out and added depth/competition and might actually be far worse if Richburg (injury), Williams (year out of the NFL) and Brunskill (not as stable as Person) aren't what we thought.

Williams is an upgrade over Staley based on the past few years so it is not a wash. Your preaching to the choir when it comes to the
OL. I agree that overall pass protection is suspect but I am looking at the positives. Garland played well at center, Williams is a younger and as good if not better LT and they bring in competition to hopefully facilitate better play at RG. I hated the Tomlinson signing. I think he stinks. McGlinchey needs to improve at pass protection as well but is still young and hopefully will improve. In the end,we will see. JR has a quick release and we have strong play action to facilitate the weaknesses. We really don't need a HOF OL to succeed. I would suggest based on the draft capital they had, they did well. It does not mean we are set at the OL position.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

You just argued McGlinchey, Tomlinson and Richburg are awful pass blockers so how does Wirfs fix that?

FWIW, Richburg's 75 rating in PP was second only to Brunskill and Staley at 80.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Just one of those as long as he's a clear upgrade in talent.

For instance...

Immobile QB's:
Bucs get Wirfs for Brady
Saints get Ruiz for Brees
NE franchise tags their G
Raiders the most $ spent on OL
Even the Browns finally figured it out (despite a mobile QB) after going all skill position and trading their OL the year before

If you run a PA offense and you don't have a mobile QB, IOL pass protection is just a crucial as T become it equates to 5 and 7 step drops.

Ruiz isn't even gonna start.

Browns and Bucs drafted TACKLES.

You just argued McGlinchey, Tomlinson and Richburg are awful pass blockers so how does Wirfs fix that?

This is the problem. You are so extreme with your narrative now you have to argue everything simultaneously. If the entire OLine is garbage at pass protection they all should've been replaced. Yet one guy and you are happy?

Guess Dallas is crazy not to replace Frederick with Ruiz and will instead let our castoff Joe Looney and a 4th rounder battle.

this. thank you.

I wanna be clear, I'm sick over Joe Staley retiring, love that dude. BUT

The OL got better today and better this off season:
Trent Williams > Joe Staley
Daniel Brunskill > Mike Person

Added depth in the draft, retained Garland in case Richburg isn't healthy to start the season or if (when) he gets injured. I think the OL got better as a unit and certainly got younger.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

So basically 9ers needed to sign a FA guard, draft Wirfs and trade up for Ruiz. Only way they could have a satisfactory offseason.

Just one of those as long as he's a clear upgrade in talent.

For instance...

Immobile QB's:
Bucs get Wirfs for Brady
Saints get Ruiz for Brees
NE franchise tags their G
Raiders the most $ spent on OL
Even the Browns finally figured it out (despite a mobile QB) after going all skill position and trading their OL the year before

If you run a PA offense and you don't have a mobile QB, IOL pass protection is just a crucial as T become it equates to 5 and 7 step drops.

Why do you think the Bucs, Raiders, and the Browns have it figure out? You mean you have better respect and trust to the Bucs and Browns front office and coaching staffs than Kyle and Lunch? Are you being serious?

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Exactly. Each team found a solution for their specific situation which is the goal - and what we did with acquiring Williams. I think Williams fits perfectly for our situation where we're trying to replace one pro bowler/blue chip player with another. It doesn't matter specifically what each team did for themselves in terms of a template. They won't be able to applied directly to our situation where we need(ed) a starting caliber RG and an upgrade or at least someone in development for center. I guess the plan will be at this stage to pray/hope Benton finds more gems in UDFAs.

Did it with Brunskill. Been saying all offseason he's the starting right guard.

Naturally. Who else is he competing with. Tom Compton?

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Why do you think the Bucs, Raiders, and the Browns have it figure out? You mean you have better respect and trust to the Bucs and Browns front office and coaching staffs than Kyle and Lunch? Are you being serious?

Figured out? No, examples of teams with immobile QB's investing in top talent for their QB. I literally labeled it for you.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Ruiz isn't even gonna start.

Browns and Bucs drafted TACKLES.

You just argued McGlinchey, Tomlinson and Richburg are awful pass blockers so how does Wirfs fix that?

This is the problem. You are so extreme with your narrative now you have to argue everything simultaneously. If the entire OLine is garbage at pass protection they all should've been replaced. Yet one guy and you are happy?

Guess Dallas is crazy not to replace Frederick with Ruiz and will instead let our castoff Joe Looney and a 4th rounder battle.

The unit is poor. Not even debatable. But adding one top talent certainly helps two fold esp. if he can play both G and T at a high level.

Here, try this one:

Armstead - top 10 DE right now. 
Bosa - top 3 DE
Ford - top 2 ER
Jones - top 5 NT potential
3T - J.Taylor, Blair, Thomas, Street, Givens, Willie Henry Jr. & Ray Smith plus whatever veteran IDL's get cut that we can pick up. And all experienced in this defense already. 

As you can see, that's still the NFL's top 3 defense even without Buckner and the IDTs are rotated anyhow unlike OL. That means less is needed for similar production and with added playing time, a better chance one or two of those players develops very well for you...see Ronald Blair. 

vs.

Trent Williams for Joe Staley - Ranked 5 out of 57 in pass protection 
Tomlinson - Ranked 41 out of 62 G's in pass protection 
Richburg/Garland - Ranked 15th & 18th out of 29 
Person/Brunskill - Ranked 52 & N/A out of 62
McGlinchey - Ranked 30 out of 57 in pass protection 

So, as you can see, esp. in a passing league where nobody runs anymore and in a play action offense where it takes a minimum of 2 full seconds to execute (pressure comes at 2.5-3.0), upgrading the offensive line pass protection, especially the interior, was a FAR BIGGER NEED than adding a higher end 3T. 

And it's not even close.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

this. thank you.

Nothing to thank. He's wrong again. Ruiz is slated to start at RG and provide security at C. And if he's NOT starting, that's even more proof how Payton feels about protecting his immobile FQB...our #1 competition in the NFC.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

this. thank you.

Nothing to thank. He's wrong again. Ruiz is slated to start at RG and provide security at C. And if he's NOT starting, that's even more proof how Payton feels about protecting his immobile FQB...our #1 competition in the NFC.

Saints and Vikings won't make it to the dance.

The circus doesn't travel in the playoffs