Why does Baalke seem get a free pass from serious criticism?

Originally posted by Robert:
If we take a look at Baalke's drafts 2010-2013, the trend is disturbing to say the least.

As it stands now, 2010 was his best draft in terms of long term contribution to the team (Bowman was a great pick; A Davis a gutsy good call, Iupati was an obvious but still good pick).

2011 looked epic before the recent run of legal trouble. A Smith may well have played his last game in a niner uniform. Kaep was a great pick, but everything I have read says that credit for that pick should really go to Harbaugh. Culliver and Hunter likely will be playing in other uniforms after this year. Miller is the only pick that has worked out.

The 2012 draft was THE WORST in the NFL that year. After James is cut / released, we will have zero players on our roster this year from the 2012 draft. That is pretty much unheard of. Yet…crickets…

In 2013, for all the firepower we had, we got one starting safety with concussion issues. The rest are all question marks including a couple of wildcards coming off injury.

Yet, I don't hear a chorus calling for Baalke's head in the media or from fans? Why? This team has been a quality corner or speedy wide receiver from winning the Lombardi for 3 years. Baalke has failed to deliver either, yet all I hear about is how Harbaugh, stuck with the same aging base of players year after year, is supposed to miraculous will his team Superbowl if he wants to get an extension, when Baalke has failed to refresh the talent of this team year after year, despite having ample opportunity to do so.

Where's the criticism? Where's the pitchforks? Why does Baalke get a pass year after year? What am I missing?

Last 3 years since he took over officially as GM: 13-3, 11-4-1 and 12-4, three trips to the NFC Championship Game, one Super Bowl trip.

One can nit pick about this draft pick and that draft pick and who should get more of the credit between Harbaugh and Baalke primarily with some consideration given to drafts conducted by Nolan/McCloughan, but, at the end of the day, no GM is going to be heavily criticized after 3 years of 36-11-1, 3 title game trips and 1 Super Bowl trip.

The criticism you think is appropriate may be coming after this year or in the coming years if the 49ers fall off because the talent base has aged and was not replaced due in part to draft and FA mistakes, but, until then, you aren't going to hear a lot of objective legitimate criticism of Baalke.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by GEEK:

You are missing an objective opinion.

2010 was a great draft. Bowman may be a future hall of famer because he's playing better than Patrick Willis. Davis and Iupati are top 10 players at the respective positions. And Anthony Dixon was a great role player for us. He wiffed on Mays, but that was a Singletary pick.

2011 was an outstanding draft. Aldon Smith is a pro bowl player. We found our future QB in Kaepernick. Culliver is a solid corner. Hunter has shown flashes, but got banged up a bit. Kilgore is now a starter. Bruce Miller is a pro-bowl caliber full back.

Off-field issues are not Baalke's fault.

2012 draft was atrocious - and the verdict is still out on Looney.

2013 draft has solid potential. Eric Reid was an outstanding pick - you don't blame a GM because players suffer a football injury - that shows your blatant and idiotic bias against Baalke. Carradine, Dial, and Lattimore have potential to be contributors, but were redshirted in their first year. Not a big deal because we still have 4 years on their contract (first year didn't count). And this draft will kick in as Patton is ready, McDonald is ready, and Lemonier will have a bigger role.

I give Baalke a B+ grade. A good chunk of the talent on this team came before Harbaugh became coach. But the 2012 docks him a full letter grade.

This x 10!

I'd give him this draft grade as well. But I'd give him an A+ in salary cap management, pricing FA's properly/fair (who all left for more $ to never be heard from again), finding absolute bargains such as Moss, Boldin, Dorsey, Brock, Williams, Boone, Miller, Cooper, etc., creating an internal "farm system," using the I.R. rules to develop players for a year such as Okoye and his mystery injury and the fact that the coaching staff is openly talking about expanding their offense also tells me Baalke/Jed had a little talk with Harbaugh/Roman and the rest of the position coaches. The draft gets a B+ with the potential for higher but the rest of the management responsibilities have to be an A+. He is able to get Harbaugh the players he wants in CK, Gabbert, Owen, Martin, etc. and balancing the needs of this team at the same time. It's quite a balancing act.

I agree. Good analysis, NC, as usual.

My only question is about the 2012 draft. Who did the Niners get in 2013 with a pick they traded for in 2012? Was it Lemonier? If so, does that change Baalke's grade for 2012 just a little?

Hey that's a great question. Anyone remember? I don't even remember all the moves. Jenkins hurts but so did Baldwin for the Chiefs (plus a million other WR's choosen in the first round). Looney is going to be good IMHO and I think if James goes to the right team, he'll be great. Fleming may turn out well if the rumors are true that he is being moved inside as well and he has natural pass rush ability (originally an OLB). We've stuck by him for 2 years now for a reason. Cam Johnson, we developed and he played great in PS last year and then was let go for a 7th (same value so we'll have to see what we get with it this year, or was it next?).

And yes, these moves should be included in the overall grade.

They aquired a 3, a 5, and a 6. I believe the 3 was used to move up for Reid.

Originally posted by Disp:
What's more impressive to me is every player that's been replaced in the past few years has been replaced by an upgrade. Baalke is the one cutting, trading, and not re-signing players.

Spikes - Bowman
Snyder/Rachal - Boone
Goldson - Reid
Rogers (who was an upgrade at the time) - Brock
Haralson - Aldon
Sopoaga - Dorsey
Williams - Boldin
Akers (who was an upgrade at the time) - Dawson
Smith - Kaepernick
Whoever was fullback before Miller (can't remember) - Miller

This is why the "window is closing" people kill me. Every personnel change and player that's been bumped has been replaced with a better player and made the team stronger. There isn't a single position that is replaced with a weaker player. You could perhaps argue going from Walker to McDonald was a downgrade, but let's see how McDonald does this season with a year under his belt.

THIS is a very very very good perspective. Any bets Bethea plays better than Whitner this year? Brock and Culliver/Wright/Draft pick play better than Rogers and Brown?

Of all the FA losses, Walker/Moss/Ginn were it. But Moss retired and Ginn and Walker wanted to be starters (can't blame them there). Also, what FA haven't the Niners gone after? They are very active and always offer very fair contracts to play for a Superbowl contender. In the end, the "big named" FA's choose the $ to play for crap teams such as the Titans, Raiders, Browns, Bucs, etc. Enough said...you can't hold that against the FO. There are many FO's that barely try in FA.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by GEEK:
You are missing an objective opinion.

2010 was a great draft. Bowman may be a future hall of famer because he's playing better than Patrick Willis. Davis and Iupati are top 10 players at the respective positions. And Anthony Dixon was a great role player for us. He wiffed on Mays, but that was a Singletary pick.

2011 was an outstanding draft. Aldon Smith is a pro bowl player. We found our future QB in Kaepernick. Culliver is a solid corner. Hunter has shown flashes, but got banged up a bit. Kilgore is now a starter. Bruce Miller is a pro-bowl caliber full back.

Off-field issues are not Baalke's fault.

2012 draft was atrocious - and the verdict is still out on Looney.

2013 draft has solid potential. Eric Reid was an outstanding pick - you don't blame a GM because players suffer a football injury - that shows your blatant and idiotic bias against Baalke. Carradine, Dial, and Lattimore have potential to be contributors, but were redshirted in their first year. Not a big deal because we still have 4 years on their contract (first year didn't count). And this draft will kick in as Patton is ready, McDonald is ready, and Lemonier will have a bigger role.

I give Baalke a B+ grade. A good chunk of the talent on this team came before Harbaugh became coach. But the 2012 docks him a full letter grade.

This x 10!

I'd give him this draft grade as well. But I'd give him an A+ in salary cap management, pricing FA's properly/fair (who all left for more $ to never be heard from again), finding absolute bargains such as Moss, Boldin, Dorsey, Brock, Williams, Boone, Miller, Cooper, etc., creating an internal "farm system," using the I.R. rules to develop players for a year such as Okoye and his mystery injury and the fact that the coaching staff is openly talking about expanding their offense also tells me Baalke/Jed had a little talk with Harbaugh/Roman and the rest of the position coaches. The draft gets a B+ with the potential for higher but the rest of the management responsibilities have to be an A+. He is able to get Harbaugh the players he wants in CK, Gabbert, Owen, Martin, etc. and balancing the needs of this team at the same time. It's quite a balancing act.

I agree. Good analysis, NC, as usual.

My only question is about the 2012 draft. Who did the Niners get in 2013 with a pick they traded for in 2012? Was it Lemonier? If so, does that change Baalke's grade for 2012 just a little?

Hey that's a great question. Anyone remember? I don't even remember all the moves. Jenkins hurts but so did Baldwin for the Chiefs (plus a million other WR's choosen in the first round). Looney is going to be good IMHO and I think if James goes to the right team, he'll be great. Fleming may turn out well if the rumors are true that he is being moved inside as well and he has natural pass rush ability (originally an OLB). We've stuck by him for 2 years now for a reason. Cam Johnson, we developed and he played great in PS last year and then was let go for a 7th (same value so we'll have to see what we get with it this year, or was it next?).

And yes, these moves should be included in the overall grade.

They aquired a 3, a 5, and a 6. I believe the 3 was used to move up for Reid.

That is huge. First, having that 3rd pick and ONLY using it to move up to #15 to get Reid? That alone is fantastic and should be included in that 2012 overall grade.

What did we do with the 5 and 6?

Baalke got seriously hammered in here when he got named GM, ah good times.

But since then I've let the guy show me the money. Hes done some good things for someone with no previous experience at the position. 49ers could have gone for a more proven person at the time but decided to go in house.

I think 5yrs is a good measuring stick to see how hes done.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by GEEK:

You are missing an objective opinion.

2010 was a great draft. Bowman may be a future hall of famer because he's playing better than Patrick Willis. Davis and Iupati are top 10 players at the respective positions. And Anthony Dixon was a great role player for us. He wiffed on Mays, but that was a Singletary pick.

2011 was an outstanding draft. Aldon Smith is a pro bowl player. We found our future QB in Kaepernick. Culliver is a solid corner. Hunter has shown flashes, but got banged up a bit. Kilgore is now a starter. Bruce Miller is a pro-bowl caliber full back.

Off-field issues are not Baalke's fault.

Difficult to say. Looking into it.

They MAY have used the 6 to move up for McDonald, but not certain of that. They made more moves pre draft so difficult to pin down. They did move up for Ried, McDonald, and Lemonier and moved down to take Tank.

Peeps should take not of that BTW. So far, Alex Smith has netted Tank Carradine, a 2013 2nd round pick, and a 2013 3rd round pick (move down in round 2 last year got them another 3), and a 7th rounder last year that was used to move up for Lemonier.
2012 draft was atrocious - and the verdict is still out on Looney.

2013 draft has solid potential. Eric Reid was an outstanding pick - you don't blame a GM because players suffer a football injury - that shows your blatant and idiotic bias against Baalke. Carradine, Dial, and Lattimore have potential to be contributors, but were redshirted in their first year. Not a big deal because we still have 4 years on their contract (first year didn't count). And this draft will kick in as Patton is ready, McDonald is ready, and Lemonier will have a bigger role.

I give Baalke a B+ grade. A good chunk of the talent on this team came before Harbaugh became coach. But the 2012 docks him a full letter grade.

This x 10!

I'd give him this draft grade as well. But I'd give him an A+ in salary cap management, pricing FA's properly/fair (who all left for more $ to never be heard from again), finding absolute bargains such as Moss, Boldin, Dorsey, Brock, Williams, Boone, Miller, Cooper, etc., creating an internal "farm system," using the I.R. rules to develop players for a year such as Okoye and his mystery injury and the fact that the coaching staff is openly talking about expanding their offense also tells me Baalke/Jed had a little talk with Harbaugh/Roman and the rest of the position coaches. The draft gets a B+ with the potential for higher but the rest of the management responsibilities have to be an A+. He is able to get Harbaugh the players he wants in CK, Gabbert, Owen, Martin, etc. and balancing the needs of this team at the same time. It's quite a balancing act.

I agree. Good analysis, NC, as usual.

My only question is about the 2012 draft. Who did the Niners get in 2013 with a pick they traded for in 2012? Was it Lemonier? If so, does that change Baalke's grade for 2012 just a little?

Hey that's a great question. Anyone remember? I don't even remember all the moves. Jenkins hurts but so did Baldwin for the Chiefs (plus a million other WR's choosen in the first round). Looney is going to be good IMHO and I think if James goes to the right team, he'll be great. Fleming may turn out well if the rumors are true that he is being moved inside as well and he has natural pass rush ability (originally an OLB). We've stuck by him for 2 years now for a reason. Cam Johnson, we developed and he played great in PS last year and then was let go for a 7th (same value so we'll have to see what we get with it this year, or was it next?).

And yes, these moves should be included in the overall grade.

They aquired a 3, a 5, and a 6. I believe the 3 was used to move up for Reid.

That is huge. First, having that 3rd pick and ONLY using it to move up to #15 to get Reid? That alone is fantastic and should be included in that 2012 overall grade.

What did we do with the 5 and 6?

Difficult to say. Too many trades to keep track.

Peeps should take note of the Alex Smith trade though. Has so far netted Tank Carradine, 7th round pick used to trade up for Lemonier, a 2013 2nd round pick and a 2013 3rd round pick. Not bad for a QB who was considered "worthless".

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Difficult to say. Too many trades to keep track.

Peeps should take note of the Alex Smith trade though. Has so far netted Tank Carradine, 7th round pick used to trade up for Lemonier, a 2013 2nd round pick and a 2013 3rd round pick. Not bad for a QB who was considered "worthless".

So so so true! "so far..." being the operative phrase here.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by GEEK:

You are missing an objective opinion.

2010 was a great draft. Bowman may be a future hall of famer because he's playing better than Patrick Willis. Davis and Iupati are top 10 players at the respective positions. And Anthony Dixon was a great role player for us. He wiffed on Mays, but that was a Singletary pick.

2011 was an outstanding draft. Aldon Smith is a pro bowl player. We found our future QB in Kaepernick. Culliver is a solid corner. Hunter has shown flashes, but got banged up a bit. Kilgore is now a starter. Bruce Miller is a pro-bowl caliber full back.

Off-field issues are not Baalke's fault.

2012 draft was atrocious - and the verdict is still out on Looney.

2013 draft has solid potential. Eric Reid was an outstanding pick - you don't blame a GM because players suffer a football injury - that shows your blatant and idiotic bias against Baalke. Carradine, Dial, and Lattimore have potential to be contributors, but were redshirted in their first year. Not a big deal because we still have 4 years on their contract (first year didn't count). And this draft will kick in as Patton is ready, McDonald is ready, and Lemonier will have a bigger role.

I give Baalke a B+ grade. A good chunk of the talent on this team came before Harbaugh became coach. But the 2012 docks him a full letter grade.

This x 10!

I'd give him this draft grade as well. But I'd give him an A+ in salary cap management, pricing FA's properly/fair (who all left for more $ to never be heard from again), finding absolute bargains such as Moss, Boldin, Dorsey, Brock, Williams, Boone, Miller, Cooper, etc., creating an internal "farm system," using the I.R. rules to develop players for a year such as Okoye and his mystery injury and the fact that the coaching staff is openly talking about expanding their offense also tells me Baalke/Jed had a little talk with Harbaugh/Roman and the rest of the position coaches. The draft gets a B+ with the potential for higher but the rest of the management responsibilities have to be an A+. He is able to get Harbaugh the players he wants in CK, Gabbert, Owen, Martin, etc. and balancing the needs of this team at the same time. It's quite a balancing act.

I agree. Good analysis, NC, as usual.

My only question is about the 2012 draft. Who did the Niners get in 2013 with a pick they traded for in 2012? Was it Lemonier? If so, does that change Baalke's grade for 2012 just a little?

Hey that's a great question. Anyone remember? I don't even remember all the moves. Jenkins hurts but so did Baldwin for the Chiefs (plus a million other WR's choosen in the first round). Looney is going to be good IMHO and I think if James goes to the right team, he'll be great. Fleming may turn out well if the rumors are true that he is being moved inside as well and he has natural pass rush ability (originally an OLB). We've stuck by him for 2 years now for a reason. Cam Johnson, we developed and he played great in PS last year and then was let go for a 7th (same value so we'll have to see what we get with it this year, or was it next?).

And yes, these moves should be included in the overall grade.

They aquired a 3, a 5, and a 6. I believe the 3 was used to move up for Reid.

That is huge. First, having that 3rd pick and ONLY using it to move up to #15 to get Reid? That alone is fantastic and should be included in that 2012 overall grade.

What did we do with the 5 and 6?

Although Baalke deserves criticism for the Jenkins selection, in hindsight, a broader view of things indicates that he has built a deep and talented roster, with some great potential additions that haven't even seen the field yet, AND he's stockpiled draft picks so he can keep on adding talent.

Not bad.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Disp:
What's more impressive to me is every player that's been replaced in the past few years has been replaced by an upgrade. Baalke is the one cutting, trading, and not re-signing players.

Spikes - Bowman
Snyder/Rachal - Boone
Goldson - Reid
Rogers (who was an upgrade at the time) - Brock
Haralson - Aldon
Sopoaga - Dorsey
Williams - Boldin
Akers (who was an upgrade at the time) - Dawson
Smith - Kaepernick
Whoever was fullback before Miller (can't remember) - Miller

This is why the "window is closing" people kill me. Every personnel change and player that's been bumped has been replaced with a better player and made the team stronger. There isn't a single position that is replaced with a weaker player. You could perhaps argue going from Walker to McDonald was a downgrade, but let's see how McDonald does this season with a year under his belt.

THIS is a very very very good perspective. Any bets Bethea plays better than Whitner this year? Brock and Culliver/Wright/Draft pick play better than Rogers and Brown?

Of all the FA losses, Walker/Moss/Ginn were it. But Moss retired and Ginn and Walker wanted to be starters (can't blame them there). Also, what FA haven't the Niners gone after? They are very active and always offer very fair contracts to play for a Superbowl contender. In the end, the "big named" FA's choose the $ to play for crap teams such as the Titans, Raiders, Browns, Bucs, etc. Enough said...you can't hold that against the FO. There are many FO's that barely try in FA.

Well said
NCommand... Good to see you how are you

I have no clue what the perspective will be on who will replace A. Smith this year...
Do we draft high in the perspective to replace him for a year and even maybe years to come due the on going issue's off the field?
Or
Do we replace just for one year and hope that we have a strong back up who qualitie play is a true starter?

Oh wee, another Baalke thread created by another newb that can't use the search button

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't know. Aldon Smith is a disaster and that is regarded as one of his best picks. 2012 was completely lost. Kaep is a running QB with no pocket presense. A great athlete who is tall, big and strong and super fast legs. But he can't make a read to save his life. He has no idea what he is seeing out there. Upside yeah. Rare athletic skills sure. But he is a tad bit overrated on the WZ IMO. There are probably 15 QB's who can get just as far as him in the NFL. This thing is driven by defense, O line, running game. Alex Smith on his same team at the time proved it. He got the NFC Championship. He would have gotten to the Super Bowl if Kyle Williams didn't fumble twice. This ship is not QB driven.

You must be a delight at parties

sandiego be throwing truth parties and all yall stuck at the blind fan parties

this team is f**ked, kaep sucks

Originally posted by NCommand:

This is the point everyone ignores. 2010 was clearly Scott's board with Singletary allowed to have control by ownership

We do not know what Baalke did with the existing board left by Scott. Scott left, or was let go, shortly before the draft, but we do not know if Baalke made changes or adaptions to the board. If Baalke made any changes to that board, we do not know what they were or how major the changes were. We do not know if Baalke used the board as it stood.

The operative words being we do not know.

I clearly remember that Baalke was placed in charge of the draft. I do not remember anything said about Singletary given control (of the draft) by Jed York.

I will admit that my memory has been faulty at times, but I do know that prior to the draft it is difficult to gauge he veracity of what we hear from pundits, talking heads, and even from the team.

But, I will acknowledge that my memory has been faulty more than a few times.

When Baalke was hired he got the exact opposite of a free pass.

If I recall his hiring was condemned more frequently that it was praised.

I would say that today Baalke and his efforts are generally respected.

Baalke has earned the respect he has been given.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is the point everyone ignores. 2010 was clearly Scott's board with Singletary allowed to have control by ownership

We do not know what Baalke did with the existing board left by Scott. Scott left, or was let go, shortly before the draft, but we do not know if Baalke made changes or adaptions to the board. If Baalke made any changes to that board, we do not know what they were or how major the changes were. We do not know if Baalke used the board as it stood.

The operative words being we do not know.

I clearly remember that Baalke was placed in charge of the draft. I do not remember anything said about Singletary given control (of the draft) by Jed York.

I will admit that my memory has been faulty at times, but I do know that prior to the draft it is difficult to gauge he veracity of what we hear from pundits, talking heads, and even from the team.

But, I will acknowledge that my memory has been faulty more than a few times.

We never know the full story so best guestimates are in order based on the little info we had. But you are correct.

That said, what we did know was that Baalke had very little time, if any at all, to restructure the board based on his research team (formally, the scouting department lead by Scott). Singletary was just hired and went on record as saying he wanted a team that punched others in the mouff...physical with an "f." So, the first two picks were Davis and Iupati in the first. While these picks could be Baalke-solo picks, it's pretty fair to assume, or at least expected, that these pics were viewed with Singletary's "vision" in mind. Then came the Mays pick and it could be seen in the war room Baalke losing his mind, naturally. Now, why would Baalke lose his mind over Singletary's pick if he had total control over the roster at that time? My guestimate is that one of the contigencies upon hiring Singletary was that he'd be allowed to draft his players that year esp. given the short amount of time we had b/c of Scott's departure and that the folllowing year, Baalke would assume his current position (total control). Control was an issue of contention with Nolan/Scott. So my guess is that Singletary was given the keys to the franchise for the interim until the FO was stable.

So it's hard to tease out the full secenario at that juncture but it's pretty apparent now what Baalke's role is...total control. The Baalke to Harbaugh and established scouting department, fiscal team, FA scouting teams, relationships with Jed and all position coaches, etc. is much more established and clear-cut than what it was back then (of which it was a train wreck).