Why does Baalke seem get a free pass from serious criticism?

Originally posted by GEEK:

You are missing an objective opinion.

2010 was a great draft. Bowman may be a future hall of famer because he's playing better than Patrick Willis. Davis and Iupati are top 10 players at the respective positions. And Anthony Dixon was a great role player for us. He wiffed on Mays, but that was a Singletary pick.

2011 was an outstanding draft. Aldon Smith is a pro bowl player. We found our future QB in Kaepernick. Culliver is a solid corner. Hunter has shown flashes, but got banged up a bit. Kilgore is now a starter. Bruce Miller is a pro-bowl caliber full back.

Off-field issues are not Baalke's fault.

2012 draft was atrocious - and the verdict is still out on Looney.

2013 draft has solid potential. Eric Reid was an outstanding pick - you don't blame a GM because players suffer a football injury - that shows your blatant and idiotic bias against Baalke. Carradine, Dial, and Lattimore have potential to be contributors, but were redshirted in their first year. Not a big deal because we still have 4 years on their contract (first year didn't count). And this draft will kick in as Patton is ready, McDonald is ready, and Lemonier will have a bigger role.

I give Baalke a B+ grade. A good chunk of the talent on this team came before Harbaugh became coach. But the 2012 docks him a full letter grade.

This x 10!

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by GEEK:
You are missing an objective opinion.

2010 was a great draft. Bowman may be a future hall of famer because he's playing better than Patrick Willis. Davis and Iupati are top 10 players at the respective positions. And Anthony Dixon was a great role player for us. He wiffed on Mays, but that was a Singletary pick.

2011 was an outstanding draft. Aldon Smith is a pro bowl player. We found our future QB in Kaepernick. Culliver is a solid corner. Hunter has shown flashes, but got banged up a bit. Kilgore is now a starter. Bruce Miller is a pro-bowl caliber full back.

Off-field issues are not Baalke's fault.

2012 draft was atrocious - and the verdict is still out on Looney.

2013 draft has solid potential. Eric Reid was an outstanding pick - you don't blame a GM because players suffer a football injury - that shows your blatant and idiotic bias against Baalke. Carradine, Dial, and Lattimore have potential to be contributors, but were redshirted in their first year. Not a big deal because we still have 4 years on their contract (first year didn't count). And this draft will kick in as Patton is ready, McDonald is ready, and Lemonier will have a bigger role.

I give Baalke a B+ grade. A good chunk of the talent on this team came before Harbaugh became coach. But the 2012 docks him a full letter grade.

This x 10!

Let's not forget the FA adds and such too...
-letting Goldson walk for a Reid, an obvious upgrade without the dumb penalties
-Boldin?
-Getting two second rounders for a middling QB?
-Jonathan Goodwin?
-Didn't he hire our head coach? Harbaugh?
-Carlos Rogers?
-Phil Dawson?
-Got younger at long snapper? (can't remember the dude's name)
-Got rid of dead weight? (Mays, Lawson, etc.)

and...
-extending current players?
-keeping our salary cap in good shape for years to come?
-compiling draft picks?

2012 was a terrible draft, no doubt about that, but he was done way more good for this team than bad. Our roster is at the point where very few draft picks are even able to make the top 53! When you have very few holes and a lot of players wanting them, ofcourse it is going to make our draffts look bad. We basically only have space for a WR (maybe?) and a CB, yet we have 14(?) draft picks!

We have the luxury of bringing in rookies to compete with the vets, and say "may the best man win" That is a great place to be!!!

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by GEEK:
You are missing an objective opinion.

2010 was a great draft. Bowman may be a future hall of famer because he's playing better than Patrick Willis. Davis and Iupati are top 10 players at the respective positions. And Anthony Dixon was a great role player for us. He wiffed on Mays, but that was a Singletary pick.

2011 was an outstanding draft. Aldon Smith is a pro bowl player. We found our future QB in Kaepernick. Culliver is a solid corner. Hunter has shown flashes, but got banged up a bit. Kilgore is now a starter. Bruce Miller is a pro-bowl caliber full back.

Off-field issues are not Baalke's fault.

2012 draft was atrocious - and the verdict is still out on Looney.

2013 draft has solid potential. Eric Reid was an outstanding pick - you don't blame a GM because players suffer a football injury - that shows your blatant and idiotic bias against Baalke. Carradine, Dial, and Lattimore have potential to be contributors, but were redshirted in their first year. Not a big deal because we still have 4 years on their contract (first year didn't count). And this draft will kick in as Patton is ready, McDonald is ready, and Lemonier will have a bigger role.

I give Baalke a B+ grade. A good chunk of the talent on this team came before Harbaugh became coach. But the 2012 docks him a full letter grade.

This x 10!

I'd give him this draft grade as well. But I'd give him an A+ in salary cap management, pricing FA's properly/fair (who all left for more $ to never be heard from again), finding absolute bargains such as Moss, Boldin, Dorsey, Brock, Williams, Boone, Miller, Cooper, etc., creating an internal "farm system," using the I.R. rules to develop players for a year such as Okoye and his mystery injury and the fact that the coaching staff is openly talking about expanding their offense also tells me Baalke/Jed had a little talk with Harbaugh/Roman and the rest of the position coaches. The draft gets a B+ with the potential for higher but the rest of the management responsibilities have to be an A+. He is able to get Harbaugh the players he wants in CK, Gabbert, Owen, Martin, etc. and balancing the needs of this team at the same time. It's quite a balancing act.

Originally posted by MC9BEAT:

1 proven player in 7 premium picks is hardly impressive. Michael is 3rd string. Same as LMJ. LMJ however has played well as a KR and averages over 4 1/2 yds per carry as a RB and people talk about him like he is a bust on this site so what's that make Michael? Either LMJ is too harshly judged or Michael isn't judged harshly enough. Also, it is still early to judge the seahawks 2013 draft but shouldn't the 49ers 2013 draft class get the same consideration? I know I would take our 2013 draft class over theirs even if you subtract our 1st rd pick because they didn't have one.

It's interesting that you cut it off after the 4th round, when that's when Schneider and Carroll make their best picks.

In 2011, post round 4 they got both starting corners (one an all-pro) and a Super Bowl MVP linebacker.

Quite a few impact players, I'd say.

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by jreff22:
Davis and Iupati were Sing "picks" if I remember correctly. He wanted beef up front and got it in one draft.

We really do not know who was whose pick.

Baalke was in charge of the 2010 draft.

I would guess that Baalke gets credit and blame for the draft.

I think its pretty well known those were Singletary picks.

I give Baalke credit for the 2010 draft and criticize him for not convincing Singletary that Mays wasn't worth a 2nd round pick.

I remember when McCloughan left the team said they were still sticking to his draft board. Baalke had some power but he wasn't the GM. I think Singletary had more power that draft than Baalke did.

I doubt McCloughan left a memo about how to move around the board that Baalke played a big hand in setting up. Baalke is the one who pulled the trigger to move up for Anthony Davis and was savvy enough to trade back in the 3rd to allow San Diego to move up and take ILB Donald Butler while we moved back a dozen slots to pick-up Bowman while earning an extra pick which turned into Boobie Dixon. It would be impossible for me to believe Sing engineered any of that.

I don't know why you guys are so worried about who was whose pick. TB, as the GM, has to take into account input from coaches, scouts, etc. and then makes the pick. I highly doubt that any of those picks were unanimous, or that any of those picks were only supported by Baalke.

A good GM takes into account input from those around him to make the decision.

People say Singletary pushed for Mays....doesn't matter. Baalke could have said no. His pick, his fault. Habaugh wanted Kap? Well Baalke, wisely, listened to those around him. He picked Kap, he gets the credit.

A good manager in any business knows how to utilize those around him.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by GEEK:

You are missing an objective opinion.

2010 was a great draft. Bowman may be a future hall of famer because he's playing better than Patrick Willis. Davis and Iupati are top 10 players at the respective positions. And Anthony Dixon was a great role player for us. He wiffed on Mays, but that was a Singletary pick.

2011 was an outstanding draft. Aldon Smith is a pro bowl player. We found our future QB in Kaepernick. Culliver is a solid corner. Hunter has shown flashes, but got banged up a bit. Kilgore is now a starter. Bruce Miller is a pro-bowl caliber full back.

Off-field issues are not Baalke's fault.

2012 draft was atrocious - and the verdict is still out on Looney.

2013 draft has solid potential. Eric Reid was an outstanding pick - you don't blame a GM because players suffer a football injury - that shows your blatant and idiotic bias against Baalke. Carradine, Dial, and Lattimore have potential to be contributors, but were redshirted in their first year. Not a big deal because we still have 4 years on their contract (first year didn't count). And this draft will kick in as Patton is ready, McDonald is ready, and Lemonier will have a bigger role.

I give Baalke a B+ grade. A good chunk of the talent on this team came before Harbaugh became coach. But the 2012 docks him a full letter grade.

This x 10!

I'd give him this draft grade as well. But I'd give him an A+ in salary cap management, pricing FA's properly/fair (who all left for more $ to never be heard from again), finding absolute bargains such as Moss, Boldin, Dorsey, Brock, Williams, Boone, Miller, Cooper, etc., creating an internal "farm system," using the I.R. rules to develop players for a year such as Okoye and his mystery injury and the fact that the coaching staff is openly talking about expanding their offense also tells me Baalke/Jed had a little talk with Harbaugh/Roman and the rest of the position coaches. The draft gets a B+ with the potential for higher but the rest of the management responsibilities have to be an A+. He is able to get Harbaugh the players he wants in CK, Gabbert, Owen, Martin, etc. and balancing the needs of this team at the same time. It's quite a balancing act.

I agree. Good analysis, NC, as usual.

My only question is about the 2012 draft. Who did the Niners get in 2013 with a pick they traded for in 2012? Was it Lemonier? If so, does that change Baalke's grade for 2012 just a little?

Originally posted by NCommand:

I'd give him this draft grade as well. But I'd give him an A+ in salary cap management, pricing FA's properly/fair (who all left for more $ to never be heard from again), finding absolute bargains such as Moss, Boldin, Dorsey, Brock, Williams, Boone, Miller, Cooper, etc., creating an internal "farm system," using the I.R. rules to develop players for a year such as Okoye and his mystery injury and the fact that the coaching staff is openly talking about expanding their offense also tells me Baalke/Jed had a little talk with Harbaugh/Roman and the rest of the position coaches. The draft gets a B+ with the potential for higher but the rest of the management responsibilities have to be an A+. He is able to get Harbaugh the players he wants in CK, Gabbert, Owen, Martin, etc. and balancing the needs of this team at the same time. It's quite a balancing act.

Excellent call.

If Trent were to be a FA GM how fast would he get picked up? Faster than a speeding bullet!

I'm so happy and confident /him at the helm.

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

I doubt McCloughan left a memo about how to move around the board that Baalke played a big hand in setting up. Baalke is the one who pulled the trigger to move up for Anthony Davis and was savvy enough to trade back in the 3rd to allow San Diego to move up and take ILB Donald Butler while we moved back a dozen slots to pick-up Bowman while earning an extra pick which turned into Boobie Dixon. It would be impossible for me to believe Sing engineered any of that.

That was a truly great move, trading back for an extra pick and still getting Bowman.

It shows Baalke is not only a good evaluator of talent, but he also knows how to manipulate the board, and he's cool under pressure.

Watching him (or really anyone) make moves like that really makes the draft fun to watch.

What's more impressive to me is every player that's been replaced in the past few years has been replaced by an upgrade. Baalke is the one cutting, trading, and not re-signing players.

Spikes - Bowman
Snyder/Rachal - Boone
Goldson - Reid
Rogers (who was an upgrade at the time) - Brock
Haralson - Aldon
Sopoaga - Dorsey
Williams - Boldin
Akers (who was an upgrade at the time) - Dawson
Smith - Kaepernick
Whoever was fullback before Miller (can't remember) - Miller

This is why the "window is closing" people kill me. Every personnel change and player that's been bumped has been replaced with a better player and made the team stronger. There isn't a single position that is replaced with a weaker player. You could perhaps argue going from Walker to McDonald was a downgrade, but let's see how McDonald does this season with a year under his belt.

Because he is Baalke

Originally posted by cory4903:
I don't know why you guys are so worried about who was whose pick. TB, as the GM, has to take into account input from coaches, scouts, etc. and then makes the pick. I highly doubt that any of those picks were unanimous, or that any of those picks were only supported by Baalke.

A good GM takes into account input from those around him to make the decision.

People say Singletary pushed for Mays....doesn't matter. Baalke could have said no. His pick, his fault. Habaugh wanted Kap? Well Baalke, wisely, listened to those around him. He picked Kap, he gets the credit.

A good manager in any business knows how to utilize those around him.

I buy this. TB can choose to listen to the coaches who are pushing for a certain player, or he can override any requests from the coaches. It is probably in TB's best interest to highly value, or just act like he highly values the input from coaches, but in the end he's the one that writes the name on the card to give to the podium. He should get acknowledged for every good or bad pick regardless of which position coach pushed for a certain player. Also, there are moves that a GM does not make that should go into the analysis of his body of work.


Draft: B : 2012 hurts, but his ability to stockpile picks year to year is simply amazing. Good value at early rounds. Discovering hidden gems must be considered: Brock, Boone, Ian Williams.

Player extensions/cap manipulation (contract restructuring): A : Bowman, Brock, Boldin, Dawson extended. Letting the right players walk for comp picks must be considered.

Trades: B+:
Wow = Boldin
Nice = ASmith, CJohnson, JMartin
OK = Gabbert, Baldwin, PHarylson
Bad: McCoy (just a 6th)

UFA signings: B+ : Hard to say what deals could have materialized, but besides Nnamdi (still no $ guaranteed), TB has yet to sign a bad deal while bringing in so many value deals with Dorsey, Skuta, Dawson, Osgood, and CRogers (first year) at the top of the list.

Coach relations: A : Jim doesn't seem like an easy character to deal with based on what his brother John has said about him. I believe John.

So Overall that's an A-/B+ grade for me. The only real blemish I see on his resume is the 2012 draft. UFA signings and Trades are grades where none of us really know what was offered and what was not offered. So in a way the UFA and Trades grades are always an unknown.

I know there are a ton of moves not mentioned. The OP fails to mention so many of these other aspects of GM'ing. Drafting, although the most visible to us fans, is just one of the many tasks on the GM's plate.

Why do people constantly ask why Baalke escapes real criticism in posts where they are criticizing him?

Sounds to me like he isn't escaping anything.

Your OP is totally bogus. Completely ignores free agency. While 2011 player have been in trouble with the law recently they have been crazy good on the field. LaMichael James is NOT the lone remaining player from the 2012 draft. Joe Looney was also drafted that year as was Darius Fleming. Fleming just can't stop tearing his ACL. They also traded out of the 2012 draft several times to pick up picks in 2013.

Perhaps the most bewildering part of the post though was the comments on the 2013 draft. Eric Reid made the Pro Bowl as an alternate. Tank was injured when drafted so was taken in round 2 when he's have gone in round 1 otherwise. They knew he was injured. McDonald was raw and learned a lot last year. Lemonier looked good in limited opportunities. So did Patton. Lattimore was never going to play this year.

People b*tching about the 2013 draft don't have a clue what they are talking about.

The answer to your final question? ALOT.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'd give him this draft grade as well. But I'd give him an A+ in salary cap management, pricing FA's properly/fair (who all left for more $ to never be heard from again), finding absolute bargains such as Moss, Boldin, Dorsey, Brock, Williams, Boone, Miller, Cooper, etc., creating an internal "farm system," using the I.R. rules to develop players for a year such as Okoye and his mystery injury and the fact that the coaching staff is openly talking about expanding their offense also tells me Baalke/Jed had a little talk with Harbaugh/Roman and the rest of the position coaches. The draft gets a B+ with the potential for higher but the rest of the management responsibilities have to be an A+. He is able to get Harbaugh the players he wants in CK, Gabbert, Owen, Martin, etc. and balancing the needs of this team at the same time. It's quite a balancing act.

I think the team management aspect is a wildly underrated part of a GMs job and a part that few GMs, if any, have done better than Baalke. As far as I have seen, he does not overpay any player, whether it is a player currently on the roster or one he brings in through free agency. He's always looking for upgrades through free agency that come cheap and I believe does that better than any GM. That's a very difficult thing to do.

The draft really is a crapshoot every year. Most of these players aren't fully developed, and I don't think there is a way to rate work ethic or a willingness to learn. All a guy can do is simply interview the player and hope the college coach gives an impartial assessment of the guy. Otherwise all the GM has to go off of is tape, and there really isn't that much college tape on these guys. Think of how many games a college team plays against high level talent. It's not many. I would venture a guess of 3-4 games per year. Put that over a 3 year career give or take, and you've got 12 games. Of those 12 games, how many times is the guy (if a skill position guy) fully involved in the play? A GM has to stake the future of a franchise off very little, and Baalke has done far better than most.

I find it very hard to criticize a GM who has built up an extremely talented roster, and one that has been in the Superbowl or a game away for 3 seasons in a row. Simply getting to the playoffs 3 consecutive years can be difficult.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by GEEK:
You are missing an objective opinion.

2010 was a great draft. Bowman may be a future hall of famer because he's playing better than Patrick Willis. Davis and Iupati are top 10 players at the respective positions. And Anthony Dixon was a great role player for us. He wiffed on Mays, but that was a Singletary pick.

2011 was an outstanding draft. Aldon Smith is a pro bowl player. We found our future QB in Kaepernick. Culliver is a solid corner. Hunter has shown flashes, but got banged up a bit. Kilgore is now a starter. Bruce Miller is a pro-bowl caliber full back.

Off-field issues are not Baalke's fault.

2012 draft was atrocious - and the verdict is still out on Looney.

2013 draft has solid potential. Eric Reid was an outstanding pick - you don't blame a GM because players suffer a football injury - that shows your blatant and idiotic bias against Baalke. Carradine, Dial, and Lattimore have potential to be contributors, but were redshirted in their first year. Not a big deal because we still have 4 years on their contract (first year didn't count). And this draft will kick in as Patton is ready, McDonald is ready, and Lemonier will have a bigger role.

I give Baalke a B+ grade. A good chunk of the talent on this team came before Harbaugh became coach. But the 2012 docks him a full letter grade.

This x 10!

I'd give him this draft grade as well. But I'd give him an A+ in salary cap management, pricing FA's properly/fair (who all left for more $ to never be heard from again), finding absolute bargains such as Moss, Boldin, Dorsey, Brock, Williams, Boone, Miller, Cooper, etc., creating an internal "farm system," using the I.R. rules to develop players for a year such as Okoye and his mystery injury and the fact that the coaching staff is openly talking about expanding their offense also tells me Baalke/Jed had a little talk with Harbaugh/Roman and the rest of the position coaches. The draft gets a B+ with the potential for higher but the rest of the management responsibilities have to be an A+. He is able to get Harbaugh the players he wants in CK, Gabbert, Owen, Martin, etc. and balancing the needs of this team at the same time. It's quite a balancing act.

I agree. Good analysis, NC, as usual.

My only question is about the 2012 draft. Who did the Niners get in 2013 with a pick they traded for in 2012? Was it Lemonier? If so, does that change Baalke's grade for 2012 just a little?

Hey that's a great question. Anyone remember? I don't even remember all the moves. Jenkins hurts but so did Baldwin for the Chiefs (plus a million other WR's choosen in the first round). Looney is going to be good IMHO and I think if James goes to the right team, he'll be great. Fleming may turn out well if the rumors are true that he is being moved inside as well and he has natural pass rush ability (originally an OLB). We've stuck by him for 2 years now for a reason. Cam Johnson, we developed and he played great in PS last year and then was let go for a 7th (same value so we'll have to see what we get with it this year, or was it next?).

And yes, these moves should be included in the overall grade.