Why does Baalke seem get a free pass from serious criticism?

I don't see Baalke as getting a free pass...for the longest time, not many in this forum really supported him. Now that many are, you want to bash him. I don't get it. Show me any GM who aces drafts season after season...you most likely can't, because drafting players is an inexact science, just like FA acquisitions are. There's reasons the average NFL career is only 3.5 yrs per NFLPA, while the Commissioner says it's closer to 6. Splitting the difference it's probably @ 4.75 yrs...not a long time. So, yeah, it's important for GM's to have good drafts, but even if they do, there are numerous factors beyond their control that contribute to the length/success of a player's career. If Baalke kills next month's draft will you doubters then jump on his bandwagon? Better question...how do any of us judge a draft...many experts will say it can easily take 3 yrs to really know how good it was.

Originally posted by OregonNiner87:

Originally posted by Niners99:
Did it hurt when you pulled that statement out of your butt?

Maybe I misunderstood how much Baalke wanted Dalton (I don't really think it's a stretch), but

"Jim fought for drafting Kaepernick,'' Dilfer said. "They could have had [Andy] Dalton [who went 35th to Cincinnati, one spot ahead of where the 49ers traded up to]. Everybody wanted Dalton except him. [49ers general manager Trent] Baalke threw him a bone because it was his first year. Kaepernick was his guy. He went and worked him out, he thought he found him, and he swears to this day the only reason Kaepernick went that high was because of the momentum generated because of him. That's his guy."

makes it sound like we have Harbaugh to thank for Kap.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/don_banks/11/27/colin-kaepernick-49ers-super-bowl/index.html#ixzz2zZkEsXfs

This is the point everyone ignores. 2010 was clearly Scott's board with Singletary allowed to have control by ownership (anyone remember Baalke going nuts when Singletary picked Mays?). It was still a good draft though b/c we filled needs. 2011 was Baalke's board and his show and any time you get the best pass rusher in the draft and a franchise QB, case closed. I'm sure Andy would have done well here as well. 2012, to me, had that feel where Baalke put his board together and each pick was for a position coach. And all sucked. I think he learned a ton from that process and 2013 was much better and each year he's added more and more picks to the pot and each time we've gotten our man and then some. There is no pass for 2012 in NT. It was a formula that didn't work.

And as far as all the OTHER things he's done for this team, I'd recommend checking out the threads, 2012 and 2013 - Team Needs.

wat about the low risk high reward free agency?

i think he does it better than anybody.

plus whenever somebody leaves for free agency (sopoaga, gholdson) they are replaced with a player who does better or just as good (reid, dorsey)

Yea, it sucks that 3 first rounders out of 4 are starters on the team. Apprently you forget the dark years of swinging and misssing every year.

Get over yourself. With a stacked team, it is harder for a GM to shine.

This year for example, draft a WR, unless they are a stud in the slot or return game, they will not dominate as Crabtree and Boldin are starters.

Draft a cemter., they might sit on the bench.

Draft an OLB, and Aldon Smith, Dan Skuta, Brooks and Lemonoir might be ahead of them on the depth chart.

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Allx9er:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by OregonNiner87:
*Kap

Arguing the merits of Kap's play is one thing. But Harbaugh wanted Kap and Baalke wanted Dalton.

thought it was the other way around

Oregon is correct. Trent wanted Dalton.

Where is this information, if this can be considered information, coming from?

Anyone have legitimate sources?

"Jim fought for drafting Kaepernick,'' Dilfer said. "They could have had [Andy] Dalton [who went 35th to Cincinnati, one spot ahead of where the 49ers traded up to]. Everybody wanted Dalton except him. [49ers general manager Trent] Baalke threw him a bone because it was his first year. Kaepernick was his guy. He went and worked him out, he thought he found him, and he swears to this day the only reason Kaepernick went that high was because of the momentum generated because of him. That's his guy.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/don_banks/11/27/colin-kaepernick-49ers-super-bowl/index.html#ixzz2zZsvyOQq

Thanks.

Dilfer is as legitimate as any of the talking heads.

But, I would still take his word with a grain of salt.

I would have to agree, Harbaugh boasts about how he held a throwing contest with Kap at Nevada's pro day (didn't do this with any other prospect that year), and when you trade up for a QB, that isn't just out of coincidence (won't go further, but I doubt any other coach would let another QB start in place of a consistent one out of injury, if he didn't want that QB in the first place).

Heck, but who knows, Joe Montana wasn't even Bill Walsh's first choice in the 1979 draft.

So overall, Baalke has the power...and he trusted his coach to get his man. Wouldn't this be a POSITIVE in Baalke's grade? And as it turns out, Dalton's a good QB too.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Niners99:
And at the end of the day, weve been to 3 straight NFC title games. Wait until we fail to make the playoffs before criticizing the guys in charge.

You dont like the outcome at the very end, but were a top 3 team every year now, and we used to be horrible before those 2 guys took charge. Keep things in perspective.

To play devils advocate.

Say we kept McDrunk and still got Harbs. Would we be a worse team?

That is a great question. I think Baalke runs circles around Scott and Scott wasn't the worst GM. The credit should go to Jed who promoted Baalke so that he could have control over the FO and work with the best salary cap team in the business, scouting department, FA team and all coaches AND manage the draft as well.

The bottom line is, we've been the deepest, most talented and stacked team in the NFL for the past 3 years and every year we extend our core players and have the cap $ to do it. We literally have an internal farm system within the roster. Baalke signs and brings in the talent LT. It's up to the coaching staff to use them and use them properly.

Team stacked with talent that goes to the playoffs and competes with the best for a shot at the ring the last three years running. Surely it is time to start a thread about how our GM sucks. Only the Webzone....

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by jreff22:
Davis and Iupati were Sing "picks" if I remember correctly. He wanted beef up front and got it in one draft.

We really do not know who was whose pick.

Baalke was in charge of the 2010 draft.

I would guess that Baalke gets credit and blame for the draft.

I think its pretty well known those were Singletary picks.

I give Baalke credit for the 2010 draft and criticize him for not convincing Singletary that Mays wasn't worth a 2nd round pick.

Originally posted by MC9BEAT:
Agreed. 2010 and 2011 were great drafts.The 2013 draft is loaded with potential. The 49ers are so deep they can red shirt players and even incoming rookies can sit or be developed over time. On another team players like McDonald and Lemonier would start as rookies. Add to that that Baalke got us the #77 pick early 3rd rd this year from last years draft and he made Jerry Jones his little biatch in rd 1 and moved up 13 slots to get Reid for only a 3rd rd pick it was a great draft. I think that is the biggest move up for a 3rd rd pick in the 1st rd in NFL history by far.

As for the 2012 draft. AJ Jenkins was a bust. LMJ is a good player that the coaches have failed to use properly. He is a good KR and averages over 4 1/2 yds per carry as a RB. It's Baalke's fault no one hands him the ball or uses his skill as a receiver as well? Looney has provided solid depth on the O-line.

Do we have to go over the bad picks made by a HOF genius like Bill Walsh to compare? The year we drafted Montana he used the 1st pick of the 2nd rd (same as the last pick in the 1st rd) on a RB who never played RB for us. We tried him at WR and safety and eventually settled for just a KR. (LMJ is way better and was a late 2nd rd pick). A 1st rd pick on Earl Cooper RB from Rice he eventually converted to TE. The list goes on.

Every GM has draft busts. It is the overall ability to build a team that the GM,coaches and scouts should be judged on and I believe they have built the best team in the NFL.
P.S.
2 of the last 4 Seahawk drafts include.
2013 1st 3 picks
rd 2: Christine Michael RB
rd 3: Jordan Hill DT
rd 4: Chris Harper WR

2011 1st 4 picks
rd 1: James Carpenter OT
rd 2: John Moffitt G
rd 4: KJ Wright LB
rd 4: Kris Durham WR

Not impressed.

Point basically made, however KJ Wright is considered to be one of the best players on a pretty fantastic defense. He was a major hit for a 4th round pick.

Also, jury is very much still out on the redshirts from the top of the 2013 draft (Michael and Hill)

Originally posted by Robert:

Originally posted by theduke85:
So basically, we have:
- one draft that was horrendous (2012)
- two drafts that were great (2011, 2010)
- one draft that is unknown (although Reid looks epic, Lattimore/Tank both have very high ceilings, Patton/McDonald/Lemon all made the roster)

Somehow this warrants "serious criticism?" You need to have an unbelievable cynical view to think that, collectively, those drafts warrant serious criticism. The 2012 draft was unimaginably bad, but overall that's a very good track record.

You also need to consider that a team like the 49ers, oozing with talent, doesn't have the luxury of keeping borderline players on the roster. They're cut because there are better players that will contribute more to the roster. A team like, say, Jacksonville, can stash more players on the roster in hopes of them developing in a year or two.

I'm not sure that we can say today that the 2010 and 2011 were "great" for the team in the long run. It's not just the drafting. It's how you choose to pay those players later. Take Iupati as an example. "Great" pick for a first contract, but you don't use a first round pick on a probowl guy for just a rookie deal. That makes no sense. You spend a first rounder on a guy you expect to pay if he lives up to his potential. Iupati has done everything right since we drafted him. He deserves a top dollar contract, but it does not look like he will get it from us. Why draft a guy, hoping he will be great, then when he is great, let him walk? And before you come back with the "you can't keep them all, because we are just soooo talented" comeback, we have plenty of cap room to sign Iupati right now. But we won't, because Baalke has assigned his mythical "value" to Iupati, and Iupati is valuing himself using a little thing known as "the market". What has Baalke done to earn the trust of fans that his "value" on All Pro players is more correct than the market?

I think you might be missing the larger perspective here. You can't pay everybody, you just can't. On this team we have several players that are among the best at their position. All the reports have Lupati wanting to be paid as the best guard in the NFL. Kap is going to warrant more than 18 mil a season. Crabtree will want significant money to stay. Vernon needs to a new contract and so on. In the salary cap era, you have to cut your losses, especially when you have a team like ours with as much talent as it has.

Originally posted by Robert:
What am I missing?

Your brain.

Originally posted by Mojambo:

Originally posted by MC9BEAT:
Agreed. 2010 and 2011 were great drafts.The 2013 draft is loaded with potential. The 49ers are so deep they can red shirt players and even incoming rookies can sit or be developed over time. On another team players like McDonald and Lemonier would start as rookies. Add to that that Baalke got us the #77 pick early 3rd rd this year from last years draft and he made Jerry Jones his little biatch in rd 1 and moved up 13 slots to get Reid for only a 3rd rd pick it was a great draft. I think that is the biggest move up for a 3rd rd pick in the 1st rd in NFL history by far.

As for the 2012 draft. AJ Jenkins was a bust. LMJ is a good player that the coaches have failed to use properly. He is a good KR and averages over 4 1/2 yds per carry as a RB. It's Baalke's fault no one hands him the ball or uses his skill as a receiver as well? Looney has provided solid depth on the O-line.

Do we have to go over the bad picks made by a HOF genius like Bill Walsh to compare? The year we drafted Montana he used the 1st pick of the 2nd rd (same as the last pick in the 1st rd) on a RB who never played RB for us. We tried him at WR and safety and eventually settled for just a KR. (LMJ is way better and was a late 2nd rd pick). A 1st rd pick on Earl Cooper RB from Rice he eventually converted to TE. The list goes on.

Every GM has draft busts. It is the overall ability to build a team that the GM,coaches and scouts should be judged on and I believe they have built the best team in the NFL.
P.S.
2 of the last 4 Seahawk drafts include.
2013 1st 3 picks
rd 2: Christine Michael RB
rd 3: Jordan Hill DT
rd 4: Chris Harper WR

2011 1st 4 picks
rd 1: James Carpenter OT
rd 2: John Moffitt G
rd 4: KJ Wright LB
rd 4: Kris Durham WR

Not impressed.

Point basically made, however KJ Wright is considered to be one of the best players on a pretty fantastic defense. He was a major hit for a 4th round pick.

Also, jury is very much still out on the redshirts from the top of the 2013 draft (Michael and Hill)

1 proven player in 7 premium picks is hardly impressive. Michael is 3rd string. Same as LMJ. LMJ however has played well as a KR and averages over 4 1/2 yds per carry as a RB and people talk about him like he is a bust on this site so what's that make Michael? Either LMJ is too harshly judged or Michael isn't judged harshly enough. Also, it is still early to judge the seahawks 2013 draft but shouldn't the 49ers 2013 draft class get the same consideration? I know I would take our 2013 draft class over theirs even if you subtract our 1st rd pick because they didn't have one.

GREAT POST OP!

I just don't understand either why DeBartolo can't get us better WRs or CBs. Either way, Walsh needs to do a better job coaching some of these guys.

....Ah f**k! This is 2014! Never mind scratch that. I forgot that we have a salary cap and we aren't in the 80s. You're post really made me think we were back in the 80s again because you want pro bowlers at every f**king position! You realize the Seahawks, didn't have an elite WR either, or an elite pass rusher?! THERE IS NO TEAM, THERE WILL BE NO TEAM, in the present or future NFL as long as the salary cap exists, that can have pro bowlers at every position...even the "geniuses" in NE can't have a great draft every year...man some people just want the whole f**king cake!

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by jreff22:
Davis and Iupati were Sing "picks" if I remember correctly. He wanted beef up front and got it in one draft.

We really do not know who was whose pick.

Baalke was in charge of the 2010 draft.

I would guess that Baalke gets credit and blame for the draft.

I think its pretty well known those were Singletary picks.

I give Baalke credit for the 2010 draft and criticize him for not convincing Singletary that Mays wasn't worth a 2nd round pick.

I remember when McCloughan left the team said they were still sticking to his draft board. Baalke had some power but he wasn't the GM. I think Singletary had more power that draft than Baalke did.