Why does Baalke seem get a free pass from serious criticism?

Originally posted by Giedi:
Jean Babtiste, as the scouting reports say, is comparable to Browner -- here's the problem, Baalke didn't think so. For some reason he thought there was better value down in the lower rounds. He's had some pretty good success with cornerbacks, so I'm not going to second guess the guy. I'm thinking that perhaps our defensive system won't fit Jean the way Donte Johnson would. I'm thinking in the Fangio/LeBeu defenses, it's the safties that are the muscle and enforcers/run-supporters in the secondary. The Fangio/LeBeu cornerbacks are the guys that stay back and cover. Whereas in the Seattle Single high safety defense, it's the cornerbacks that blitz/run support while the safties stay back and ball hawk and cover. That's why Baalke is taking safties (like Reid and Ward) so high in the draft because they have to have multi-dimensional talent in the Fangio defense, whereas the cornerbacks Baalke drafts can get buy with sub-par talent because all they need is one dimensional speed and good coverage ability here. So for whatever reason, Baalke didn't agree with your draft evaluation. Not much you can do about it but let it out here on the boards I guess.

It's hard to believe that our defense wouldn't perform better with superior athletic talent on the field. Is that what you are saying?

It might be the team strategy to avoid these guys, because we will eventually have to pay them.

I believe, it was mike mayock that said he didn't know if harbaugh and Trent get along, but their draft strategy is totally in line. That's the most important aspect, we have a program and everyone is on board. Now it's time to get #6 and validate this whole process. Honestly in my mind it's already validated, to compete at the level we have the last 3 seasons is pretty special.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Jean Babtiste, as the scouting reports say, is comparable to Browner -- here's the problem, Baalke didn't think so. For some reason he thought there was better value down in the lower rounds. He's had some pretty good success with cornerbacks, so I'm not going to second guess the guy. I'm thinking that perhaps our defensive system won't fit Jean the way Donte Johnson would. I'm thinking in the Fangio/LeBeu defenses, it's the safties that are the muscle and enforcers/run-supporters in the secondary. The Fangio/LeBeu cornerbacks are the guys that stay back and cover. Whereas in the Seattle Single high safety defense, it's the cornerbacks that blitz/run support while the safties stay back and ball hawk and cover. That's why Baalke is taking safties (like Reid and Ward) so high in the draft because they have to have multi-dimensional talent in the Fangio defense, whereas the cornerbacks Baalke drafts can get buy with sub-par talent because all they need is one dimensional speed and good coverage ability here. So for whatever reason, Baalke didn't agree with your draft evaluation. Not much you can do about it but let it out here on the boards I guess.

It's hard to believe that our defense wouldn't perform better with superior athletic talent on the field. Is that what you are saying?

It might be the team strategy to avoid these guys, because we will eventually have to pay them.

Stanley Baptiste is not a superior athletic talent. Dude has the quickness of a sloth and speed of over 4.61. Toast city will be his nickname imo.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Trading up for a top flight corner was just simply too expensive, when I look at it. I think you are looking at giving up a 2nd, 3rd, 4rth this year and a 1st next year too -- to go to the mid first round position. To go to the top 10, you are looking at RGIII kinds of trades that just simply mortgages your future for multiple years. That's too steep a price. Look at what happened to Shannahan, he's no longer coaching. That's what's going to happen to both Harbaugh and Baalke - they will be out on the street in a year or two. Those number 1 picks are priceless, because they can be used to replenish your depth if you need to, if you win the big one - or if you suffer a substantial amount of permanent injuries to star players.

One thing I don't understand -- and this was also mentioned in a PM I received -- is why do did we exercize a large number of picks when the number of available slots is relatively small on our roster? Doesn't it make sense to bundle picks for impact subs/maybe starters? Obviously, trying to get gilbert was out of the question. probably Fuller too. But if we could have found a way to draft Dennard + Ward, should we have taken it? Might have cost us Hyde. But that's ok, IMO. We are not thin at RB.

Originally posted by kronik:
Stanley Baptiste is not a superior athletic talent. Dude has the quickness of a sloth and speed of over 4.61. Toast city will be his nickname imo.

I'm not referring to Baptiste specifically. But somebody took him in Round 2. Likewise all the corners we didn't trade up for went in the 1st round. So, although Baalke didn't find value there, other teams thought different, for various reasons.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by kronik:
Stanley Baptiste is not a superior athletic talent. Dude has the quickness of a sloth and speed of over 4.61. Toast city will be his nickname imo.

I'm not referring to Baptiste specifically. But somebody took him in Round 2. Likewise all the corners we didn't trade up for went in the 1st round. So, although Baalke didn't find value there, other teams thought different, for various reasons.

Are you saying we should draft other players because other teams rate them high? Maybe, just maybe, our GM and scouts didn't like those players as much as YOU or the other people. Maybe, they like other players more.

Or, are you accusing the team of deliberately drafting crappy players and letting good ones go to other teams?

How about we stick with and support our own scouts and draft board.

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by kronik:
Stanley Baptiste is not a superior athletic talent. Dude has the quickness of a sloth and speed of over 4.61. Toast city will be his nickname imo.

I'm not referring to Baptiste specifically. But somebody took him in Round 2. Likewise all the corners we didn't trade up for went in the 1st round. So, although Baalke didn't find value there, other teams thought different, for various reasons.

Are you saying we should draft other players because other teams rate them high? How about we stick with our own scouts and draft board.

yeah and seeing them not take a cb early in the draft wasnt surprising since some of the beat writers had said leading up to it that it seemed baalke was too high on the cb's in this draft, or at least the ones who'd be available around our picks. if they didnt like them, they just didnt like them.

Originally posted by Ninefan56:
The reason we did not move up to get the four CBs you thought were good in the first round is because the Niners did not agree with your opinion. They did not feel the first corners were not as good as you thought they were and they felt that the backfield picks that they chose were better than yours. It is that simple. So with Ward, as their first CB, not their first SS, they felt they had good value and good talent, better than any other first round pick. They could have gotten Gilbert, Dennard, Fuller, Verret if they had wanted to but they didn't. They got the players they wanted, not the players you wanted.

All I'm saying is that in getting the players they wanted or the BPA, they didn't meet our needs to a degree commensurate with those needs.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
All I'm saying is that in getting the players they wanted or the BPA, they didn't meet our needs to a degree commensurate with those needs.

I expected an outside corner much earlier, but it appears the 49ers are higher on Brock/Culliver than the fans. They saw slot corner as the bigger immediate need, and went with the BPA for that role.

Originally posted by kronik:
Are you saying we should draft other players because other teams rate them high? Maybe, just maybe, our GM and scouts didn't like those players as much as YOU or the other people. Maybe, they like other players more.

Or, are you accusing the team of deliberately drafting crappy players and letting good ones go to other teams?

How about we stick with and support our own scouts and draft board.

My opinion is just that of a television fan. But other NFL professionals found value in these players. I bet if Baalke could have those guys for free he would take them no problem. And he even said in his presser -- very first question -- he tried working the phones to make something happen, but the price was too high.

I respect that judgement. Although, because I am a scaredy cat about our corner situation, I personally would have traded up to 4 picks to have the chance to get Dennard and Ward or Dennard and Verret. I wouldn't feel that way if Brown was still on the roster.

Originally posted by SofaKing:
I expected an outside corner much earlier, but it appears the 49ers are higher on Brock/Culliver than the fans. They saw slot corner as the bigger immediate need, and went with the BPA for that role.

Yes. Do you have a feeling about that?

Thank god you're not our GM

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
I expected an outside corner much earlier, but it appears the 49ers are higher on Brock/Culliver than the fans. They saw slot corner as the bigger immediate need, and went with the BPA for that role.

Yes. Do you have a feeling about that?

I'm cool with it, because throughout the process I too was higher on Brock/Cully than most people. I like them as the starters, I love Ward as a nickel back, and there is decent depth with Wright, Cox, and Johnson.

I don't think any of us can say that Baalke doesn't know how to draft or spot talent when it comes to the secondary.

Culliver
Brock
Reid

Went after Whitner and Rogers in FA.

Let Goldson walk and upgraded.

I think he drafted 1 starter in Ward for sure at safety down the line and I think 1 or 2 of the other CB's pan out.

Originally posted by SofaKing:
I'm cool with it, because throughout the process I too was higher on Brock/Cully than most people. I like them as the starters, I love Ward as a nickel back, and there is decent depth with Wright, Cox, and Johnson.

OK. I am not quite there.