We need a true nose tackle

Yo dumb a$$es, teams have figured out that running out of a three wide receiver set, is how you attack the niners front, they figured out that we take out our NT to put in an extra DB, they can actually run through because Fangio doesn't like putting his safeties in a box. What we effin need our shutdown corners so that we can put Whitner (who's plays that Hawk safety/olb position as well as anybody) in that box...

a True NT that you speak of is rare, like a quick footed, 7 foot center with a jump shot who can block and rebound and play his with his back to the basket and has quick first step...6'5" 330+ lb linemen aren't just out there. Average DT/NT is about 6'2" and 300 to 315, maybe...It's about sound technique. BTW Niner's D is still tough against the run, it's just hard to do it when your D is out there 75% of the time

Originally posted by eddie_arkadia:
a True NT that you speak of is rare, like a quick footed, 7 foot center with a jump shot who can block and rebound and play his with his back to the basket and has quick first step...6'5" 330+ lb linemen aren't just out there. Average DT/NT is about 6'2" and 300 to 315, maybe...It's about sound technique. BTW Niner's D is still tough against the run, it's just hard to do it when your D is out there 75% of the time

Haven't checked free agency I see?

And btw the best NT in football isn't even 6'5". Actually most if not all NTs in the NFL aren't 6'5". And yes, its about sound technique or actually leverage, lowest man wins in football, remember. Right now, the 9ers defense needs someone who can control both A and B gaps and Dorsey just isn't cutting it, he gets engulfed one on one.

Im not sold on our DL depth too. Dobbs sucked pretty bad today!

Don't worry guys will have the first over all pick soon enough to get a space eater!

NT is literally the least of my worries.

we need a true team

Originally posted by SofaKing:
NT is literally the least of my worries.

It shouldn't be. It should be even if Ian Williams were healthy IMO.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Haven't checked free agency I see?

And btw the best NT in football isn't even 6'5". Actually most if not all NTs in the NFL aren't 6'5". And yes, its about sound technique or actually leverage, lowest man wins in football, remember. Right now, the 9ers defense needs someone who can control both A and B gaps and Dorsey just isn't cutting it, he gets engulfed one on one.

The Niners NT doesnt controls both A and B gaps. True NTs dont control the b
B gap. Its the A gaps to the left and right of the center. Dorsey has been doing a great job. I pride myself on bring able to scout dline and he fits the Niner NT mold perfectly.

I don't even know why this is a thread. Were giving up rushing yards in the 4-2 not the 3-4.

Originally posted by eddie_arkadia:

Yo dumb a$$es, teams have figured out that running out of a three wide receiver set, is how you attack the niners front, they figured out that we take out our NT to put in an extra DB, they can actually run through because Fangio doesn't like putting his safeties in a box. What we effin need our shutdown corners so that we can put Whitner (who's plays that Hawk safety/olb position as well as anybody) in that box...

Apparently you don't understand it. There's a big difference between 3rd and 2 and 3rd and 11. If you remember, our defense would put teams in third and long situation when we were holding them to 1 yard of offense on the first 2 down because of the nose tackle. Now on third down, of course you can run when we have our nickel defense it because it's third and 2 to go. How complicated is that? That nose tackle is able to get our defense of the field which will end of fact help our offense. This is so easy to understand. We can't have to back up those tackles trying to start in the middle.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

NT is literally the least of my worries.

Wow. I figured you would understand the concept. We get off the damn field when we hold teams to third and long situations. of course now we can't get off the field because teams are rushing in 3rd and 2 situation when we have our nickel defense on the field.

we had success against Green Bay because they passed the ball on first down and we held them sometimes. Never needed a nose tackle. We had control with the clock. The next two teams have bigger backs and the common theme is that we have the ball in our hands for 23 minutes a game. Sickening.

how long have we had trouble against bigger running backs? It's a huge problem now that we have backup nose tackle starting.we can get stuff the more physical backfrom gaining 5 yards a carry. and teams are seeing that we give up so much in the middle of course they run on 3rd down and short from 3 receivers.

NT is one of our biggest problems don't let the lack of offense of the team fool you.

Originally posted by eonblue:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Haven't checked free agency I see?

And btw the best NT in football isn't even 6'5". Actually most if not all NTs in the NFL aren't 6'5". And yes, its about sound technique or actually leverage, lowest man wins in football, remember. Right now, the 9ers defense needs someone who can control both A and B gaps and Dorsey just isn't cutting it, he gets engulfed one on one.

The Niners NT doesnt controls both A and B gaps. True NTs dont control the b
B gap. Its the A gaps to the left and right of the center. Dorsey has been doing a great job. I pride myself on bring able to scout dline and he fits the Niner NT mold perfectly.

I don't even know why this is a thread. Were giving up rushing yards in the 4-2 not the 3-4.

Were giving up 5 yards a carry every time. Answer that. And Glen Dorsey is doing his job? Not when opposing guards have a free run to the 2nd level to block Willis. Dont say you haven't seen that constantly--if you scout the dline. This is terrible that good posters don't see the losing factors of the team

Originally posted by eonblue:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Haven't checked free agency I see?

And btw the best NT in football isn't even 6'5". Actually most if not all NTs in the NFL aren't 6'5". And yes, its about sound technique or actually leverage, lowest man wins in football, remember. Right now, the 9ers defense needs someone who can control both A and B gaps and Dorsey just isn't cutting it, he gets engulfed one on one.

The Niners NT doesnt controls both A and B gaps. True NTs dont control the b
B gap. Its the A gaps to the left and right of the center. Dorsey has been doing a great job. I pride myself on bring able to scout dline and he fits the Niner NT mold perfectly.

I don't even know why this is a thread. Were giving up rushing yards in the 4-2 not the 3-4.

Thanks for the correction eon, its actually A..A, or plain A-gap. Sorry bro got mixed up looking at the O-line, I've always thought the B gap wa sto the left of the center, but you're right B-gap is between LG and LT. Mah bad homie.

But Dorsey has been underachieving IMO, the center takes him outta the play one on one, and when he takes on a double team hes getting pushed 5 yards back.

Originally posted by SFL49ER:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
NT is literally the least of my worries.

Wow. I figured you would understand the concept. We get off the damn field when we hold teams to third and long situations. of course now we can't get off the field because teams are rushing in 3rd and 2 situation when we have our nickel defense on the field.

we had success against Green Bay because they passed the ball on first down and we held them sometimes. Never needed a nose tackle. We had control with the clock. The next two teams have bigger backs and the common theme is that we have the ball in our hands for 23 minutes a game. Sickening.

how long have we had trouble against bigger running backs? It's a huge problem now that we have backup nose tackle starting.we can get stuff the more physical backfrom gaining 5 yards a carry. and teams are seeing that we give up so much in the middle of course they run on 3rd down and short from 3 receivers.

NT is one of our biggest problems don't let the lack of offense of the team fool you.

Re-watch the game. Dorsey did a good job. He wasn't the problem. The entire defense had trouble taking on and shedding blocks after being pounded repeatedly. The Colts wore them down. This happened because the 49ers could not sustain any offense for the 2nd straight week, leaving their defense on the field for the vast majority of the game.

The offense is at fault for 23 minutes TOP. It's up to them to sustain drives. 3-12 on 3rd downs for the game. The Colts were only 1-6 on 3rd downs in the 1st half, then 4-6 in the 2nd. The defense WAS getting off the field on 3rd downs, but tired out, just like any defense would under these circumstances. I don't know how you can put the blame on the NT or the defense after yesterday's putrid performance by the offense.

Another take on our run defense per PFF

Up front there were solid displays from Ray McDonald (+1.9), Glenn Dorsey (+1.2), and Ahmad Brooks (+1.3) but behind them there were more down performances from the 49ers in one game than you'd expect to see combined in a month. Both Justin Smith (-2.5 run defense) and NaVorro Bowman (-2.9 run defense) were uncharacteristically poor against the ground game, as were reserve linemen Tony Jerod-Eddie (-2.5) and linebacker Michael Wilhoite (-2.1)

Still want to put all our struggles on Dorsey? Sorry guys, but it's not that simple. We have waaay more issues. NT is not the problem.