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Originally posted by wysiwyg:
The NFL will continue to make billions
And continue to not provide medical care to former players
Concussions will be given lip service
We won't care and gobble it up
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
First James isn't a downhill runner, he's a scat back. Again at Oregon they ran more shotgun and exotic formations than they did conventional I formations or 2 tight end sets like a Stanford would. James flourished there and they were a run first team. That is college however, and in the NFL players are a lot faster and can keep up with him. I never once compared lamichael to sproles and I never said he would get anywhere close to 70 receptions like sproles. I said hunter and him combined will get 40/50 and gore will get less. I said lamichael was good in space which is true, and I think he has proven that. The 49ers do a good job at doing different things with him like coming in motion and having a running start, running him out of the pistol where he gets the ball a bit quick, can cut and be more decisive hitting the holes he wants to hit and running him out of the shotgun and delays.
If your talking about basing your opinions on the history of the team under harbaugh than let's look at the last 2 years under him with gore. 48 receptions 10 drops and about a 15% drop rate according to the first source.
You can say that he used to get 50 receptions a year as evidence but the past is the past. Our team was much different back then and we didn't have very much of a receiving core. Neither did steven Jackson or mjd for that matter. MJD is one of the best backs in the league and I'm not knocking his receiving skills just saying he gets more looks. When you don't have anyone open downfield you check down to your back more often obviously.
I never said Gore was incapable just that he isn't as good at it compared to the other backs mentioned Spiller CJ ect... Again LMJ and hunter will get more combined receptions than gore because they are better suited for it IMO. That is the only opinion I'm basing on foresight.
BTW if hunter comes back healthy and possibly stronger I dare saythan he will be an upgrade over lamichael. He is a beast. Both these guys are young and on the rise. Gore and Jackson are on the decline. I bet you joaquiz Rodgers gets more receptions than Jackson this year too. Guys are getting faster everywhere on the field. I mentioned qb's in another thread, but LB's are running 4.3's and 4'4's and D-ends are hitting 4.6's no problem. Gore never lost a step but everyone around him did gain one. While he will keep running through guys and putting them on their back, he won't be juking them out or running around them as much as he gets older. Receiving backs are typically more elusive and I think that's what we will se next year for the 49ers.
I never once said LMJ was a "down hill" runner. I said LMJ was a between the tackles runner, that has enough to get to the edge, but isaint the most effective at it without motion. LMJ is NOT a scat back in any shape or form. He just isaint. Im well aware of the offense at Oregon. LMJ is simply a small, elusive, between the tackles back. Again, not a scat back, and im not sure where anyone has ever gotten the idea that he is a scat back other than his size. Where is Oregon when you need him? Im pretty sure he watched nearly every snap LMJ took at Oregon, and im pretty sure he would agree with me.
For that matter i wouldnt call Gore a "down hill" runner either. You talk about Gore as if all he is good for is short yard power gains. That has never been Frank Gores style either. Frank Gore is a between the tackles runner, with probably the best vision of any back in the league, and just enough speed, and just enough verticle movment, and just enough power to find those holes and make considerable use of them. He is not a power down field runner, not sure where you get that impression either. It is Franks vision that makes him special.
And once again you cannot say things like "Gore and Jackson are on the decline" and "LMJ and Hunter are on the rise" without providing atleast some evidence as to why this is true. The fact is there is no evidence of this to be true. You can say LMJ and Hunter are young, and Gore and Jackson are getting older, that is fine and true, but there is no evidence that either LMJ or Hunter are anywhere near the level Gore or Jackson have been their entire careers from day one in the league, and continue to be at 30. There is simply no evidence that anyone can provide to back up that claim. None.
About the only thing i agree with you on is that if Hunter comes back 100% healthy, he is a better back than LMJ. Other than that we dont agree on much.
Regardless, no use going back and forth anymore in this thread. Feel free to open up another thread for discussion and we can take it there.
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:I guess you still do not understand you have no proof , zero to back up your "theory" that gore is slowing down. when you are confronted by this, you just tend to get snarky,.,Oh by the way you are in no position to tell good vet posters like idaho be quiet oh and when you throw stuff out there like "father time is catching up with gore" please do not roll out the shock and awe campaign when posters actually call you out and demand proof of what you speak of
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
First James isn't a downhill runner, he's a scat back. Again at Oregon they ran more shotgun and exotic formations than they did conventional I formations or 2 tight end sets like a Stanford would. James flourished there and they were a run first team. That is college however, and in the NFL players are a lot faster and can keep up with him. I never once compared lamichael to sproles and I never said he would get anywhere close to 70 receptions like sproles. I said hunter and him combined will get 40/50 and gore will get less. I said lamichael was good in space which is true, and I think he has proven that. The 49ers do a good job at doing different things with him like coming in motion and having a running start, running him out of the pistol where he gets the ball a bit quick, can cut and be more decisive hitting the holes he wants to hit and running him out of the shotgun and delays.
If your talking about basing your opinions on the history of the team under harbaugh than let's look at the last 2 years under him with gore. 48 receptions 10 drops and about a 15% drop rate according to the first source.
You can say that he used to get 50 receptions a year as evidence but the past is the past. Our team was much different back then and we didn't have very much of a receiving core. Neither did steven Jackson or mjd for that matter. MJD is one of the best backs in the league and I'm not knocking his receiving skills just saying he gets more looks. When you don't have anyone open downfield you check down to your back more often obviously.
I never said Gore was incapable just that he isn't as good at it compared to the other backs mentioned Spiller CJ ect... Again LMJ and hunter will get more combined receptions than gore because they are better suited for it IMO. That is the only opinion I'm basing on foresight.
BTW if hunter comes back healthy and possibly stronger I dare say
I never once said LMJ was a "down hill" runner. I said LMJ was a between the tackles runner, that has enough to get to the edge, but isaint the most effective at it without motion. LMJ is NOT a scat back in any shape or form. He just isaint. Im well aware of the offense at Oregon. LMJ is simply a small, elusive, between the tackles back. Again, not a scat back, and im not sure where anyone has ever gotten the idea that he is a scat back other than his size. Where is Oregon when you need him? Im pretty sure he watched nearly every snap LMJ took at Oregon, and im pretty sure he would agree with me.
For that matter i wouldnt call Gore a "down hill" runner either. You talk about Gore as if all he is good for is short yard power gains. That has never been Frank Gores style either. Frank Gore is a between the tackles runner, with probably the best vision of any back in the league, and just enough speed, and just enough verticle movment, and just enough power to find those holes and make considerable use of them. He is not a power down field runner, not sure where you get that impression either. It is Franks vision that makes him special.
And once again you cannot say things like "Gore and Jackson are on the decline" and "LMJ and Hunter are on the rise" without providing atleast some evidence as to why this is true. The fact is there is no evidence of this to be true. You can say LMJ and Hunter are young, and Gore and Jackson are getting older, that is fine and true, but there is no evidence that either LMJ or Hunter are anywhere near the level Gore or Jackson have been their entire careers from day one in the league, and continue to be at 30. There is simply no evidence that anyone can provide to back up that claim. None.
About the only thing i agree with you on is that if Hunter comes back 100% healthy, he is a better back than LMJ. Other than that we dont agree on much.
Regardless, no use going back and forth anymore in this thread. Feel free to open up another thread for discussion and we can take it there.
I'm not sure what you mean by james is an inside the tackle runner. That is pretty vague to me. The case can be made that every runningback in the nfl is an inside the tackle runner. Sproles and Spiller included. They all run between the tackles from time to time. Lamichael James IS a scatback. Scatback and receiving back are two different things. Are you telling me that James runs more like gore than he does a spiller or sproles? That is laughable. How many times do you see james come out in traditional I form? Pros or college? Not as often as he comes out in exotic formations, that's for sure.
I never said frank was a down hill runner. I believe that frank gore's patience is one of his best attributes. I used to get frustrated at how long it would take him to hit the hole because he was so patient. That's just his style though and it works for him. I never talked about gore like he was just a short yardage/goal line back. There is so much more to frank than just that. I only stated that frank isn't as strong as a receiving back as he is at blocking or running. I also stated that hunter and james are better suited at this than frank but that's just my opinion not fact.
I never said gore was on the decline in any aspect of his game besides receiving. Jackson on the other hand is on the decline IMO. Richardson got around 100 carries and around 25 receptions. Jackson only score 4 tds on the year and just barely broke 1000 yards. He averaged around 4 ypc. and Richardson got close to 5. Jackson was being phased out last year and my evidence to that is that is that he's gone this year. lol You would think the rams would match the falcons contract which was pretty mediocre but they didn't. Why? because Jackson is on his way out.
I think everybody saw what kind of talent james and hunter have. Hunter might not be on the incline because he is coming back from injury, but james def. is. I'm assuming that hunter will be coming back healthy. If he picks up where he left off, he will be a beast.
I'm not comparing james or hunter to gore and Jackson. Not rushing or receiving. I am saying however that the combo of the 2 will produce more than gore in the receiving game. That is it. Not saying they are on the level Jackson or gore are on.
I'm not opening up another thread to argue about anything. If you want to continue debating, you can do it here otherwise you can keep your silence.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:yes because gore turns 30 we need to turn him out to pasture and turn things over to little james and a guy coming off a bad injury, brilliant. The funny thing is, that there is no evidence at all, zero that the grim reaper is knocking on the door of gore
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
This offseason has become way to long, first were discussing our all pro lb being phased out by our rookie lb, how our QB isnt bright, how were going to collapse without crabtree, and now how our rushing king coming off one of his best seasons has father time catching up with him....... Good god the season cannot come soon enough
LOL! Tis the season for non-reason!
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
I think frank will hit around 1100 yards rushing but his hands were just as bad as delanie's last season
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:and you want to throw s**t out there just to see what will stick,, many good posters here have destroyed your "theory" that gore has declined in ANY area but you just keep throwing and missing the point. when people confront you with this, you answer is to tell people to be quiet or accuse us of blowing things out of proportion.
Your soo dramatic. Did I ever say we should turn things over to james and hunter? No I just said they will produce more than gore in the receiving game. I said gore was getting older not slowing down. Which he is. Usually receiving backs are quick and nimble. Gore is to some degree but not as much as hunter (when healthy) or james IMO. But of course you guys want to blow things out of proportion.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
James was a very successful inside the tackle runner in college. He would disappear into the line and pop out in the end zone...Harbaugh mentioned how frustrating it was to try and stop the guy when he coached Stanford. He is also very quick and able to get outside when desired, but unlike Hunter, he is not more successful outside than inside.
The question I will have going forward is--can either Hunter or James become an every-down back for eventually replacing Gore...or with the drafting of Lattimore will that be a moot question?
just as long as we have a productive three or four headed monster like we had last year at times, is all i want. Do not care so much the names
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:I guess you still do not understand you have no proof , zero to back up your "theory" that gore is slowing down. when you are confronted by this, you just tend to get snarky,.,Oh by the way you are in no position to tell good vet posters like idaho be quiet oh and when you throw stuff out there like "father time is catching up with gore" please do not roll out the shock and awe campaign when posters actually call you out and demand proof of what you speak of
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
First James isn't a downhill runner, he's a scat back. Again at Oregon they ran more shotgun and exotic formations than they did conventional I formations or 2 tight end sets like a Stanford would. James flourished there and they were a run first team. That is college however, and in the NFL players are a lot faster and can keep up with him. I never once compared lamichael to sproles and I never said he would get anywhere close to 70 receptions like sproles. I said hunter and him combined will get 40/50 and gore will get less. I said lamichael was good in space which is true, and I think he has proven that. The 49ers do a good job at doing different things with him like coming in motion and having a running start, running him out of the pistol where he gets the ball a bit quick, can cut and be more decisive hitting the holes he wants to hit and running him out of the shotgun and delays.
If your talking about basing your opinions on the history of the team under harbaugh than let's look at the last 2 years under him with gore. 48 receptions 10 drops and about a 15% drop rate according to the first source.
You can say that he used to get 50 receptions a year as evidence but the past is the past. Our team was much different back then and we didn't have very much of a receiving core. Neither did steven Jackson or mjd for that matter. MJD is one of the best backs in the league and I'm not knocking his receiving skills just saying he gets more looks. When you don't have anyone open downfield you check down to your back more often obviously.
I never said Gore was incapable just that he isn't as good at it compared to the other backs mentioned Spiller CJ ect... Again LMJ and hunter will get more combined receptions than gore because they are better suited for it IMO. That is the only opinion I'm basing on foresight.
BTW if hunter comes back healthy and possibly stronger I dare say
I never once said LMJ was a "down hill" runner. I said LMJ was a between the tackles runner, that has enough to get to the edge, but isaint the most effective at it without motion. LMJ is NOT a scat back in any shape or form. He just isaint. Im well aware of the offense at Oregon. LMJ is simply a small, elusive, between the tackles back. Again, not a scat back, and im not sure where anyone has ever gotten the idea that he is a scat back other than his size. Where is Oregon when you need him? Im pretty sure he watched nearly every snap LMJ took at Oregon, and im pretty sure he would agree with me.
For that matter i wouldnt call Gore a "down hill" runner either. You talk about Gore as if all he is good for is short yard power gains. That has never been Frank Gores style either. Frank Gore is a between the tackles runner, with probably the best vision of any back in the league, and just enough speed, and just enough verticle movment, and just enough power to find those holes and make considerable use of them. He is not a power down field runner, not sure where you get that impression either. It is Franks vision that makes him special.
And once again you cannot say things like "Gore and Jackson are on the decline" and "LMJ and Hunter are on the rise" without providing atleast some evidence as to why this is true. The fact is there is no evidence of this to be true. You can say LMJ and Hunter are young, and Gore and Jackson are getting older, that is fine and true, but there is no evidence that either LMJ or Hunter are anywhere near the level Gore or Jackson have been their entire careers from day one in the league, and continue to be at 30. There is simply no evidence that anyone can provide to back up that claim. None.
About the only thing i agree with you on is that if Hunter comes back 100% healthy, he is a better back than LMJ. Other than that we dont agree on much.
Regardless, no use going back and forth anymore in this thread. Feel free to open up another thread for discussion and we can take it there.
I'm not sure what you mean by james is an inside the tackle runner. That is pretty vague to me. The case can be made that every runningback in the nfl is an inside the tackle runner. Sproles and Spiller included. They all run between the tackles from time to time. Lamichael James IS a scatback. Scatback and receiving back are two different things. Are you telling me that James runs more like gore than he does a spiller or sproles? That is laughable. How many times do you see james come out in traditional I form? Pros or college? Not as often as he comes out in exotic formations, that's for sure.
I never said frank was a down hill runner. I believe that frank gore's patience is one of his best attributes. I used to get frustrated at how long it would take him to hit the hole because he was so patient. That's just his style though and it works for him. I never talked about gore like he was just a short yardage/goal line back. There is so much more to frank than just that. I only stated that frank isn't as strong as a receiving back as he is at blocking or running. I also stated that hunter and james are better suited at this than frank but that's just my opinion not fact.
I never said gore was on the decline in any aspect of his game besides receiving. Jackson on the other hand is on the decline IMO. Richardson got around 100 carries and around 25 receptions. Jackson only score 4 tds on the year and just barely broke 1000 yards. He averaged around 4 ypc. and Richardson got close to 5. Jackson was being phased out last year and my evidence to that is that is that he's gone this year. lol You would think the rams would match the falcons contract which was pretty mediocre but they didn't. Why? because Jackson is on his way out.
I think everybody saw what kind of talent james and hunter have. Hunter might not be on the incline because he is coming back from injury, but james def. is. I'm assuming that hunter will be coming back healthy. If he picks up where he left off, he will be a beast.
I'm not comparing james or hunter to gore and Jackson. Not rushing or receiving. I am saying however that the combo of the 2 will produce more than gore in the receiving game. That is it. Not saying they are on the level Jackson or gore are on.
I'm not opening up another thread to argue about anything. If you want to continue debating, you can do it here otherwise you can keep your silence.
so calm down.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
I think frank will hit around 1100 yards rushing but his hands were just as bad as delanie's last season
Every stat I could find indicates that Gore's hands were not just as bad as Delanie's last season.
Drops
Walker—9
Gore—4
Targets
Walker—37
Gore—34
Drops per target
Walker—24.32%
Gore—11.76%
Catchable Passes
Walker—30
Gore--32
Drops per catchable pass
Walker—30%
Gore—12.5%
Receptions
Walker--21
Gore--28
Catch rate
Walker—56.76%
Gore—82.35%
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
This offseason has become way to long, first were discussing our all pro lb being phased out by our rookie lb, how our QB isnt bright, how were going to collapse without crabtree, and now how our rushing king coming off one of his best seasons has father time catching up with him....... Good god the season cannot come soon enough
Originally posted by GNielsen:
If Buck's comprehensive set of comparative statistics weren't enough to convince Jim Drinkamiller that he's wrong about Frank Gore's hands, nothing will. Some people are just unable to admit that they're holding a losing hand.
Delanie Walker led the league in drops percentage last season. Gore was in the middle of the pack for drops by running backs. It's just not sound reasoning to compare Frank Gore's pass receiving ability to Walker.
