The Baalke Effect...

Giedi, you have to believe that trent didn't think as highly about the top CBs and WRs as some of the rest of us did. Also, what some wanted would have cost a lot of our picks, and some next yr also. Trent accomplished way more than anyone reasonably could have asked for. A note on our CBs. We have a #1 in Brock (who remember only got a chance once there was an injury), we got a solid #3-6, but no # 2. Well Ward can play press, plus SS, and I will be very surprised if not just one but maybe 2 of Trent's late CB picks stick and we have to let our #5 an #6 CB go. We will know by end of PS. Whatever, who dreamt of havning a starting SS PLUS 3 CBs in the draft?

As for the WRs, I don't think after Watkins he really liked anybody that much to trade up significantly so he fixed that with trades right before and during draft for known commodities, both Slots and stevie can be a deep threat also. Somewhere in there amongst our 5 CBs, 2 Ss, and Ward, plus 3 more CBs, we are going to find a return specialist also. If not I will eat my hat. Just too much defensive skill positions to not have a top flite PR/KR. Odds would be we find a guy there who also competes for #2 CB.

Trent said either just after draft started or maybe just before that as deep as draft was for CBs, he wasn't that impressed by the well known consensus CBs. Hence he took his CBs much later, most under the radar, but talented. Obviously there is room for only 1 more CB slot, but one of our #3-6 or maybe two may be moved out. That would really be neat. My guess is trent will favor the guys who can play press corner over those who can't. He also wasn't about to get Gilbert and give away half his draft...which most all analysts agree that Trent did great. For all we know, he may not have been that high on gilbet either. In the end I would rather have 3 CBs to pick from plus 9 other talented guys than one gilbert. And it looks like what trent was thinking.

Originally posted by Giedi:
While I agree in principle with what you are saying, I still think he's talented enough to make this team, if he makes some plays in pre-season. He still has great size and athletic talents. A poor man's version of Mike Evans, if you will. Man I'm still peeved we couldn't trade up for him or Odell. But yeah, if he plays like he played last Year, he's pretty much gone.

You'd want our 6th WR to be someone who doesn't play ST? It is going to come down to someone showing they can bump Osgood of the roster with their own versatility and lack of a 10 year+ veteran salary.

We "could have" traded for Beckham, we just didn't want to pay what Tennessee and other teams were asking for.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Giedi, you have to believe that trent didn't think as highly about the top CBs and WRs as some of the rest of us did. Also, what some wanted would have cost a lot of our picks, and some next yr also. Trent accomplished way more than anyone reasonably could have asked for. A note on our CBs. We have a #1 in Brock (who remember only got a chance once there was an injury), we got a solid #3-6, but no # 2. Well Ward can play press, plus SS, and I will be very surprised if not just one but maybe 2 of Trent's late CB picks stick and we have to let our #5 an #6 CB go. We will know by end of PS. Whatever, who dreamt of havning a starting SS PLUS 3 CBs in the draft?

As for the WRs, I don't think after Watkins he really liked anybody that much to trade up significantly so he fixed that with trades right before and during draft for known commodities, both Slots and stevie can be a deep threat also. Somewhere in there amongst our 5 CBs, 2 Ss, and Ward, plus 3 more CBs, we are going to find a return specialist also. If not I will eat my hat. Just too much defensive skill positions to not have a top flite PR/KR. Odds would be we find a guy there who also competes for #2 CB.

Trent said either just after draft started or maybe just before that as deep as draft was for CBs, he wasn't that impressed by the well known consensus CBs. Hence he took his CBs much later, most under the radar, but talented. Obviously there is room for only 1 more CB slot, but one of our #3-6 or maybe two may be moved out. That would really be neat. My guess is trent will favor the guys who can play press corner over those who can't. He also wasn't about to get Gilbert and give away half his draft...which most all analysts agree that Trent did great. For all we know, he may not have been that high on gilbet either. In the end I would rather have 3 CBs to pick from plus 9 other talented guys than one gilbert. And it looks like what trent was thinking.

I think Baalke did a very good job of drafting for this year. He has a very good perception of our needs and he went out and got them. He got Ward, his top grade on a CB/Safety. He got Hyde, and Martin and Borland. That is four major picks. Then he got Ellington, Millard, and Thomas three more very good players. So Harbaugh and company have a lot of people to coach up and Tomsula has a lot of people on the Dline to develop. It is time for Carradine, and Dial to show us what they've got. I can hardly wait for training camp. Good job Trent.

Originally posted by sfout:

You'd want our 6th WR to be someone who doesn't play ST? It is going to come down to someone showing they can bump Osgood of the roster with their own versatility and lack of a 10 year+ veteran salary.

We "could have" traded for Beckham, we just didn't want to pay what Tennessee and other teams were asking for.

That's the only reason Osgood made the team, because of him being an excellent special teams player. Other than that, he's a journeyman WR. I do want our special teams strong, but the 4 DB's that we drafted might be able to do what Osgood does on special teams. We won't know until they actually play of course. As for punt returner, I don't think Osgood does that. Ellington can do that, or can develop that skillset.

The trade up was too expensive, I've stated that before. It's not worth it to have traded a number 1 pick next year when we no longer have an extra 2nd rounder. I think trading down was the right move. However, those WR's taking in the top half of the first round are potentially future hall of famers like a Jerry Rice. I wish we could have gotten one of them.

But Giedi, like AJ and rashuan woods showed, they might just be busts. I think the likelihood of all the top 7 WRs becoming stars is not very likely. I think several will but I bet an equal number won't. And that is way better than the 20% of WRs who traditionally become NFL stars at WR. Drafting WRs high has bitten us in the behind, along with lots of other teams. So honestly, I loved Trent's answer. Go out and get known commodities. It takes the 80% failure rate of top WRs out of the equation. You gotta like that kind of thinking.

To me, the 49ers should try & develop Baldwin. Dudes only 24 gonna be 25 with 6'4 230 size and downfield speed this team is STARVING for. Ellington can be the returner and Patton #4 or #5 and Lloyd #6. Gotta cut Dobbs. Especially if Crabtree bolts after the year. Ten by 2015, Johnson,Boldin and Baldwin could be a nice trio along with Patton & Ellington as 4th & eth options.

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
To me, the 49ers should try & develop Baldwin. Dudes only 24 gonna be 25 with 6'4 230 size and downfield speed this team is STARVING for. Ellington can be the returner and Patton #4 or #5 and Lloyd #6. Gotta cut Dobbs. Especially if Crabtree bolts after the year. Ten by 2015, Johnson,Boldin and Baldwin could be a nice trio along with Patton & Ellington as 4th & eth options.

This and why not? Give him the same fair shake Jenkins got. At least Baldwin wanted to be here and works hard and seems to have a good attitude. After film review, he's not that bad at all. He, like many, just needs a chance and some time to digest the playbook and get to a point (development) where he can just play (and not think). Having a full off season is huge! This off season could be enormous for players like Baldwin, Wright, Carrier and a few others. Let's hope these guys run with it

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
To me, the 49ers should try & develop Baldwin. Dudes only 24 gonna be 25 with 6'4 230 size and downfield speed this team is STARVING for. Ellington can be the returner and Patton #4 or #5 and Lloyd #6. Gotta cut Dobbs. Especially if Crabtree bolts after the year. Ten by 2015, Johnson,Boldin and Baldwin could be a nice trio along with Patton & Ellington as 4th & eth options.

This and why not? Give him the same fair shake Jenkins got. At least Baldwin wanted to be here and works hard and seems to have a good attitude. After film review, he's not that bad at all. He, like many, just needs a chance and some time to digest the playbook and get to a point (development) where he can just play (and not think). Having a full off season is huge! This off season could be enormous for players like Baldwin, Wright, Carrier and a few others. Let's hope these guys run with it

Completely agree. I've been saying this for a while now - Baldwin ought to have the benefit of an off season working with the team before everyone decides he's a bust. If he's not making plays by pre-season, I'll feel differently, but right now he's still young, tall, strong and fast with lots of potential.

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
To me, the 49ers should try & develop Baldwin. Dudes only 24 gonna be 25 with 6'4 230 size and downfield speed this team is STARVING for. Ellington can be the returner and Patton #4 or #5 and Lloyd #6. Gotta cut Dobbs. Especially if Crabtree bolts after the year. Ten by 2015, Johnson,Boldin and Baldwin could be a nice trio along with Patton & Ellington as 4th & eth options.

You would need to cut Osgood. Hard sell around these parts.

Originally posted by NCommand:

This and why not? Give him the same fair shake Jenkins got. At least Baldwin wanted to be here and works hard and seems to have a good attitude. After film review, he's not that bad at all. He, like many, just needs a chance and some time to digest the playbook and get to a point (development) where he can just play (and not think). Having a full off season is huge! This off season could be enormous for players like Baldwin, Wright, Carrier and a few others. Let's hope these guys run with it

Quinton Patton and Bruce Ellington are his immediate competitors, and I don't know if he can beat either of them. Baldwin has to showcase some ability and production otherwise, as young as he is, there will be younger players next year in the next draft with possibly better ceilings and higher floors than Baldwin. He definitely has physical talent, but where is the production?

The thing with Baldwin is he has to win the #4 WR job to stick on the roster. If he can't lock that down, other players with ST ability will beat him out for the last 2 spots. Same goes with Lloyd. They have zero value as a 5th or 6th WR.

Crab/Boldin/Johnson are locked in to the top 3 spots. Patton and Ellington are virtual locks to make the roster. That's 5 guys, leaving 1 spot available for Baldwin, Lloyd, Osgood, Jacobs, or Wylie.

I too would love for Baldwin to stick, but Sofa point is on spot. No ST, it will be harder to stick. And Osgood is fantastic.

Also on baalke effect, the josh j signing is what was missing. Gabbert is a project, but not ready. I think josh is. We had a #2 problem and trent fixed it. Now he had a complete terrific draft, FA, and trade.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I too would love for Baldwin to stick, but Sofa point is on spot. No ST, it will be harder to stick. And Osgood is fantastic.

Also on baalke effect, the josh j signing is what was missing. Gabbert is a project, but not ready. I think josh is. We had a #2 problem and trent fixed it. Now he had a complete terrific draft, FA, and trade.

I was just telling the Mrs. "If anything we are a little thin at QB, good thing Kap trains the way he does". I feel pretty good if we go into the season with Kap, Gabbert and Johnson on the roster.

Baalke has killed it this off-season without penalizing our future. The window is a big ol fancy disappearing wall, and it's wiiiide open. Teams and their fans are just green with envy when you sum up the spoils and describe the way he went about it.

Consensus is that our roster is stacked and there are already contingency plans in place for pending free agents/disciplinary. This will allow the team to continue to get team friendly contracts or mid round compensatories in return. Mastering this the way Baalke has keeps the Niners a yearly contender. Combine his penchant for finding talent with Paraags savvy contract negotiating and we have ourselves and elite front office. Having an elite coaching staff, save a few,

Now if we could just get a wr's coach and an oc to match the quality of the rest of the team we'd be golden.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

I too would love for Baldwin to stick, but Sofa point is on spot. No ST, it will be harder to stick. And Osgood is fantastic.

Also on baalke effect, the josh j signing is what was missing. Gabbert is a project, but not ready. I think josh is. We had a #2 problem and trent fixed it. Now he had a complete terrific draft, FA, and trade.

It really is hard to not be completely impressed with baalke. In a league designed to limit the amount of talent on a roster, he has put together what looks like a juggernaut by today's standards. While I still have a little concern over the CB position, I'm willing to rely on baalke's judgement of the position and our defensive coaching staff ability to get those we have playing the way they need to.

If we can get a trophy, baalke will at minimum be a 49er HOFer.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

But Giedi, like AJ and rashuan woods showed, they might just be busts. I think the likelihood of all the top 7 WRs becoming stars is not very likely. I think several will but I bet an equal number won't. And that is way better than the 20% of WRs who traditionally become NFL stars at WR. Drafting WRs high has bitten us in the behind, along with lots of other teams. So honestly, I loved Trent's answer. Go out and get known commodities. It takes the 80% failure rate of top WRs out of the equation. You gotta like that kind of thinking.

I do like the thinking. I'm glad we have Baalke in charge of player acquisition. If we keep going to NFC CG and Superbowls, we'll never have a shot at those top of the line players, unless those teams let them go - like they let Dorsey and Justin Smith go. My hope is that guys like Baldwin, who is a first round player, gets to us by free agency and begins to develop in our system. Gabbert was a round 1 pick 10 player. Jonathan Martin was a 2nd round pick. These guys came to us via trade and free agency, and so guys like Sammy Watkins and Mike Evans - I hope somehow don't do as well as projected, then they drop in value, and then we get them at a discounted price, and because of our good coaching - hopefully flourish with us.