Greg Roman, is he really good?

Well Adrian, you are a smart guy. Why could romn call a great , or terrific game for josh, but call such horrible games for kap and blaine...the flame throwers? I mean it looks like roman was made to call WCO for josh, and josh was almost perfect . Yet calling the game for blaine and kap, well, we got 3 downs, 4 downs, and 6 downs for the O by the time Josh came in late in 2nd qtr. Neither blaine nor kap have showed an overwhelming propensity to complete long passes, yet that is what most of the calls were. Roman opended up his playbook for Josh. WHY? Why not for kap...and blaine? Is it because both guys are huge, both are flame throwers, so roman calls flamethrower plays for those guys....which for most of the preseason have been horrible. Kap is badly out of sync. Nothing some Josh plays wouldn't cure. Yet none of those plays got called for kap. Why?

The obvious question is, can kap not execute the plays that roman calls best...in this case, pretty much WCO. And nobody had fastballs to either dodge, or watch bounce off their helmets, hands, or whatever. Is Kap a victim of some not bad QB coaching, but awful QB coaching? Should he be watching josh complete all those WCO passes, and then also take notes on josh's beauty of a 40 yd TD pass? Just on the surface Adrian, it looks like we have the wrong OC for our QB. Or the converse, we have the wrong QB for our OC. Neither of those choices is appealing, but if Coach H didn't take note of what happened Thurs nite, I would be very surprised. I would be really interested if he had similar thots. Or am I just way off base? I didn't mention blaine here, because as far as I can see, he is copy catting kap with his flamethrower , and is equally as erratic. If we keep him over josh, then the fix is in. Because josh could run this team and frankly I don't think blaine can. Matter of fact, right now, I'm not so sure kap can either. At least not with the play calls roman gives him. And we know where that comes from...JH.

The better the team, the more conservative most play calling becomes. This is a good team....

No, and he gets worse every season. I keep desperately hoping someone will give him a hc job. If he was half as good as the media hypes him to be he'd have one by now.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Well Adrian, you are a smart guy. Why could romn call a great , or terrific game for josh, but call such horrible games for kap and blaine...the flame throwers? I mean it looks like roman was made to call WCO for josh, and josh was almost perfect . Yet calling the game for blaine and kap, well, we got 3 downs, 4 downs, and 6 downs for the O by the time Josh came in late in 2nd qtr. Neither blaine nor kap have showed an overwhelming propensity to complete long passes, yet that is what most of the calls were. Roman opended up his playbook for Josh. WHY? Why not for kap...and blaine? Is it because both guys are huge, both are flame throwers, so roman calls flamethrower plays for those guys....which for most of the preseason have been horrible. Kap is badly out of sync. Nothing some Josh plays wouldn't cure. Yet none of those plays got called for kap. Why?

The obvious question is, can kap not execute the plays that roman calls best...in this case, pretty much WCO. And nobody had fastballs to either dodge, or watch bounce off their helmets, hands, or whatever. Is Kap a victim of some not bad QB coaching, but awful QB coaching? Should he be watching josh complete all those WCO passes, and then also take notes on josh's beauty of a 40 yd TD pass? Just on the surface Adrian, it looks like we have the wrong OC for our QB. Or the converse, we have the wrong QB for our OC. Neither of those choices is appealing, but if Coach H didn't take note of what happened Thurs nite, I would be very surprised. I would be really interested if he had similar thots. Or am I just way off base? I didn't mention blaine here, because as far as I can see, he is copy catting kap with his flamethrower , and is equally as erratic. If we keep him over josh, then the fix is in. Because josh could run this team and frankly I don't think blaine can. Matter of fact, right now, I'm not so sure kap can either. At least not with the play calls roman gives him. And we know where that comes from...JH.

kap has proven all you have to do is call the plays.
roman has to call them. kap can make every throw josh made.
kap hasnt even been on the field long enough for you to judge
gabbert is the stinker he isnt copying kap because kap has moved the ball all preseason.

youre off base but thats ok

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
He's going to need to be. A bunch of gimmicky b******t and the Jumbo formation, playing to try to eek out wins isn't going to cut it this year. The offense is going to have to try and take advantage of every single opportunity and the mindset needs to be to put 7 on the board every single time down, simply being content with a field goal isn't going to fly with teams like Denver, Philly and New Orleans on the schedule. He has no excuses, I don't want to hear anyone preaching BS about how he's such a wonderful offensive mind. If he can't get it done with the immense collection of talent that the 49ers have, a group that virtually any offensive coordinator worth their salt would die for, then a change seriously needs to happen.

I feel the same about Roman and Kap both. Our passing game, in my opinion, has been suffering from Roman's lack of creativity and Kaps limitations in the pocket. People (49er fans) like to act as if Kap's pocket game is the bee's knee's but it isn't. At least not yet. He showed us that last season and I know we only had two viable ball catchers in Davis/Boldin but I don't think Kap was ready to hit the ground passing without the read-option. This year we have the WR coprs any QB and OC would kill for. Both men, in my eyes, are on the line this season. If our passing game doesn't significantly improve from last season some major changes are needed- Roman simply needs to go if that happens and we need to draft a QB and bring a vet in to pressure Kap if our passing game struggles again. It shouldn't, but if it does Roman needs to go and Kap needs a fire under his ass. Some viable competition. With 5 very good ball catchers (at least) there's no excuses for either man this season and with the injuries/suspensions on D our passing game needs to improve, immediately. Right out of the gates. We need to drastically improve our passing game right out of the gates so the NFL respects it and cant stack the box on just about every down. We also need TD's...not FG's. We go up against some high power offenses this year and we dont have the 2011/2012/2013 defense on the field. You simply don't lose two of the best defensive players in the NFL and not see any drop off, especially with the schedule we have. Teams are going to score more on us and we're going to have more of a killer instinct on offense in return. All of the weapons are there now.

Adrian, generally I don't argue with folks of a different persuasion, but I will make an exception here. WE are in agreement that there hasn't been enough of kap to see what he really is like this yr. That has been a major league screwup by my HC, because he didn't realize just how bad blaine was. So blaine and josh got virtually all the snaps, where kap really should have gotten at least 20% more. Problem is, that with basically 6 targets, 3 new, kap needs to get adjusted to them in game time. He didn't.

As far as kap having proven he can make all the throws, not this preseason he didn't . Not by a long shot. His touch passes, his close in passss...they were awful. No other word for it, awful, and if you didn't see it, or don't want to admit it, that's ok. But they happened anyway.

As far as all kap has to do is call the play....I have no idea what you were referring to. I also apologize for calling you a smart guy. We all make mistakes.

Roman has to call them. Kap has to make them. Ok, so be it. Roman called every pass play in the book for josh, and guess what? He made them all and completed all, except for a bad throw to a wideout for an INT. Point is for josh, roman could call ALL the plays. For kap we saw mostly mid range to long stuff, and most were not successful. Also kap unloading in close is about as ridiculous as it gets for a qB. So what if he throws hard and a lot of balls get dropped? That sure doesn't make him a good QB. In my mind it makes him the opposite.

Gabbert is the stinker...well we agree again, except I think he is worse than you do. And "he wasn't copying kap"...b.s. to that. They were laughing about something when gabber came out and he had just overthrown a WR by 5 yrds. He also is trying to knock WRs over with his fastball when in close at 5 yds.

Again, I will agree with you on one last thing Adrian. You are off base , but that's all right.

Maybe , just maybe we were looking at different games. But I sure know which 4 games I watched and later rewatched....and kap was not pretty.

As to my point, why could roman call such a perfect game for josh who made all the throws and really in the last game moved the ball better than anyone in any PS game: That question remains unanswered. For the first time ever I saw roman call a stellar game...an A+ game. Yet for kap he can't. Why is that do you suppose? It proves to me that roman actually does have what it takes, but the question I am left with is, " why couldn't he call those same plays for kap?" Is it because kap can't make those throws? I don't know, do You?

That was my question and I sure hope the answer is what I had asked. I HOPE kap can make all those throws that roman called for josh, but I will have to admit, after heaping blame for crappy play calling on roman, is it that roman knows kap can't make those throws? Man, I sure hope not. Because if so and kap plays like did in the PS, it won't be too many games before we see josh out there.

My original supposition was "why did roman call all the great calls for josh , yet not for roman.?" As of this point, I still have no idea. But I do know this. Kap is going to have to make ALL those throws, because if he can't, Coach is going to have to find somebody that can....and in this particular game , it was josh. And I am a fan of both kap and josh...not blaine tho.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

He's going to need to be. A bunch of gimmicky b******t and the Jumbo formation, playing to try to eek out wins isn't going to cut it this year. The offense is going to have to try and take advantage of every single opportunity and the mindset needs to be to put 7 on the board every single time down, simply being content with a field goal isn't going to fly with teams like Denver, Philly and New Orleans on the schedule. He has no excuses, I don't want to hear anyone preaching BS about how he's such a wonderful offensive mind. If he can't get it done with the immense collection of talent that the 49ers have, a group that virtually any offensive coordinator worth their salt would die for, then a change seriously needs to happen.

Well said my friend!

No more excuses or BS.

AND also, JH shares responsibility in what plays are called.

1. Agreed.

2. Again, he didn't have enough passes to judge imo. He would have had to been on the money from the absolute beginning. In game 2 he moved the ball and missed by inches on the lloyd td. he threw plenty of touch check down passes in that 2nd game too. 3rd game he was under extreme pressure, he had a high throw to vance in the beginning but from that point until roman realized we should call quick hitting passes (which ended with him completing 5/6 ) it just wasn't enough to judge. not enough attempts to claim he was awful. when really he wasn't. does this mean he's perfect at it or he doesn't need to work on it NO does it mean he can't do it? NO.


3. Condescending attacks after you read what I wrote wrong...hilarious go read what I wrote again. "kap has proven all you have to do is call the plays. roman has to call them." Now, does what you typed make a lick of sense, especially how you lead off point 4 with what I said which you didn't understand in point 3? If you need me to break it down to an elementary level. Kap has proven it doesn't matter what type of plays you call he can execute. followed by Roman has to call those plays so he can execute. This was because you were hinting at limitations based on the calls Roman made with the contrast between kap and gabbert and what they gave johnson for 1 game (the last) of the preseason.


4. Now you're being dishonest. Roman actually simplified every pass play for Johnson, when he was called on to run the more complex stuff he wouldn't even throw the football. When he removed everything else and it was simply, dump it here, or dump it there, he made a decision and made the throws. Do you see how you're trying to say it's one thing when it was the complete opposite? You're saying Roman closed the playbook for Kap and Gabbert because they can't run the full offense but Johnson could run the full offense... and it's 100% untrue. How did johnson do with the complex calls in the previous 3 preseason games? EXACTLY.


5. He wasn't copying Kap, you don't like kap obviously and you're trying to pass it off as unbiased when it clearly is as I have illustrated above. Gabbert's problem is mental more than physical at this point. He just isn't confident he is shell shocked. He gets the team in the huddle out of the huddle to the line snaps the ball makes the right read most times and then just cannot make the throw. wild and off target on ALL THROWS. he just can't do it right now for whatever reason.


6. Bunch of gibberish.


And you see dialing back the offense to even the most simplest basic patterns in the 4th game of the preseason as a testament of how come he can't call those plays for kap? The question is why are you ignoring 3 preseason games when johnson stunk up the joint... did you forget those? how many points did he put up in the 1st 2nd and 3rd preseason game? see how that works? see how he didn't have the great preseason you're trying to act like he had? in the 4th game we ran the ball heavy and made simple pitch and catch pass plays.


you don't remember how for 3 games johnson would barely even get rid of the ball? you clearly couldn't have watched 4 games.


Roman can call any play he wants to, he is not bound or limited with Kap that is a flat out lie that lots of people like to tell. They'll say "Well how come he doesn't call this or that" and the real answer is because he doesn't want to. Did you forget all the times last season after a big play he would basically hint at him saving plays? having these plays there but saving them for whenever HE feels they're right

Well, Adrian, I sure hope we aren't saving plays for dallas or we are worse off than it looks.
The overall media that matter, Herm Edwards, and his ilk, acknowledge that kap hasn't had a great preseason. A lot of that was nutty deal between blaine and josh. The competition between those two by rights took up plays that should have been way more kap snaps. So we go into a season where I think kap will feel like game 3 of PS...and that is a coaching failure, pure and simple...basically because of trading for blaine and all that followed.

The rest I think is just your higher opinion of everything kap does and my questioning if he really can do it. Russ Wilson eg, had a spectacular PS. Everything went right, they looked like the team that beat us just a few months ago in Feb. We didn't look that way and kap vs roman is the issue...at least I think that it is. Initially I had thot that kap just couldn't learn, or carry out the O. Our best plays ended up being broken pass plays where kap got us the yrds with his legs. Later I began to appreciate what kap was doing and came to the conclusion that it was roman and his lack of quality play calling that was the problem. I felt that way most of last yr until Jonny del and Thl changed my mind. So I began wondering, is it that kap just can't play pocket passer? And if he didn't, he wasn't going to last long with all the hits he was taking. In no time, Coaches got on kap to quit taking on LBs, head on and please learn to slide.

For me last season was going back and forth "is it kap " or is it the "unimaginative play calling of roman"?. Then recently we learn kap played not just with a fractured foot but also an injured capsule(ball of foot). My hat was off to him. This yr he is healed, he has 6 receivers, including 4 guys with 1000 yd yrs an all pro TE and an rapidly improving another TE. So targets will be plenty for kap this yr, but this PS kap didn't get much work with any of them.


Then flash back to last pS game, and roman puts on a WCO display with josh that I thot he was impossible of. Well now we know for certain that roman has it in him. My question from the beginning is and remains: Can roman call plays , good plays like he called for josh, and secondly , can kap carry them out?


That pretty well summarizes what I saw this PS, and it wasn't encouraging. Now with a 60% remade D and the number keeps going up daily, we will need kap and roman to perform way above anything they did last yr. Right now I just hope for a shot at the playoffs.

And the most intriguing thing will be, "is it kap"...or "is it roman"

Lastly I apologize for the snide remark...that isn't my M.O. I was a bit ticked at "well you are off base ...but that's ok"....I am old enough not to get upset with remarks like that, particularly when I began with , "Adrian, you are a smart guy". In retrospect, I should have just let it lay, but unwisely responded to your remark. I will see to it I don't do that again.

Let's play some football...and I pray the 9ers are ready for the season. With all the upheavals, it will be interesting.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
He's going to need to be. A bunch of gimmicky b******t and the Jumbo formation, playing to try to eek out wins isn't going to cut it this year. The offense is going to have to try and take advantage of every single opportunity and the mindset needs to be to put 7 on the board every single time down, simply being content with a field goal isn't going to fly with teams like Denver, Philly and New Orleans on the schedule. He has no excuses, I don't want to hear anyone preaching BS about how he's such a wonderful offensive mind. If he can't get it done with the immense collection of talent that the 49ers have, a group that virtually any offensive coordinator worth their salt would die for, then a change seriously needs to happen.

This.

But to add to that, I'd go so far as to say if Greg Roman doesn't get a job this year, with ALL of the talent he has, he never will. This is his opportunity to show off to all of college football and the NFL what he can do as an offensive coordinator. He has four legit wide receivers who are all not that far removed from 1,000 yard and/or Pro-Bowl/All-Pro seasons. He has Frank Gore who still has something left in the tank. Carlos Hyde looks ready to go. People dislike LaMichael James, but he does have something to contribute and should see more action as an running back than he did in 2013 seeing as how he is the only change of pace back on the roster now. He also has a competent O-line which should provide enough protection to take advantage of all of our skill position players. Throw in the speed of Vernon Davis and Vance McDonald who looks to be ready to play a bigger role on offense, and quite honestly we should get an offense that resembles the 49ers offense under Mike Shanahan in terms of productivity. Knowing Greg Roman he'll mess it up, but there is no reason for us to not average at least 25 points a game.

I have a few concerns this season and Greg Roman is near the top of that list. Should we not reach some reasonable goals offensively, will Jim Harbaugh fire him? The best case scenario is that Greg Roman performs out of this world, we win the Super Bowl and SOMEONE takes him off of our hands.

Well, said, LIfelong, and I would put emphasis on the last sentence, that greg performs out of this world and we win the SB. That is my hope. However, if we continue to lose any more defensive starters, that is going to be one tough azz task.

as if going down retard road in the super bowl was not bad enough,, after multiple f**k ups last year were not bad enough,, now we say " no more excuses" ,.. some of you guys are way to nice in the length of leash you have given roman

Originally posted by cciowa:

as if going down retard road in the super bowl was not bad enough,, after multiple f**k ups last year were not bad enough,, now we say " no more excuses" ,.. some of you guys are way to nice in the length of leash you have given roman

But remember CC the offense was supposed to pop last year

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by cciowa:
as if going down retard road in the super bowl was not bad enough,, after multiple f**k ups last year were not bad enough,, now we say " no more excuses" ,.. some of you guys are way to nice in the length of leash you have given roman

But remember CC the offense was supposed to pop last year

thought it was explode .. everyone got all goo goo about it but nothing happened.. its like when we come to a crucial time in the game, we call a time out and then come out and run a draw up the middle vs ten men. well maybe this is the year roman will get it. well maybe this is the year roman will get his head out of his ass. well there are no more excuses this year. f**k at this rate we will be setting around the old folks home gumming doughnuts saying " well maybe this year is the year that roman gets it

CC, if we lose 2 or 3 games early on, because the O just craps out, romn will be doing well to make it to game 4. Trent isn't going to let that happen. Much more tense now where the "O" has to carry us with 3 starters Bow, aldon, mac, all gone until after mid season. The O has to produce, and if it doesn't Trent will step in earlier rather than later. IMO. I still want to see romn call a game like he did for josh last game of season. Now that was a game. I have no idea where that came from, but it does give me hope. 2, 3, 4 early losses and an O that sputters, he's gone. IMO.