Greg Roman, is he really good?

Too many 3 & outs it very tough on the D - especially those who are nicked up and nursing injuries like Willis.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I love the fact that for almost 4 games straight, the offense is clearly in attack mode.

Don't give a f**k what anyone says, props to Roman.

he's getting there. he just shouldn't have wasted 2 games basically messing around.

this is who we've always been. he still needs to get kyle williams out of there.

but im glad macdonald is in more. and he should be in even more

and im glad hunter is in more he needs to get more touches.

we're getting there.

i thought and still think this is the year where we put it together elite offense and elite defense

I understand the constructive criticism with Roman. However I think people often overlook the bigger picture. What we're seeing at this point is the most balanced attack in years. He's making defensive coordinators defend everything, the complex runs, the options, misdirections, the TE's, and WR's. And at the same time, he's constantly finding ways to get our weapons open. Can he do a better job of getting the 2nd and 3rd options fed? Sure. But when your primary weapons can't be stopped, you don't stray from it.

Call it whatever offense you want, Roman is clearly playing chess, and you're missing out if you're not appreciating it!

Originally posted by verb1der:
I understand the constructive criticism with Roman. However I think people often overlook the bigger picture. What we're seeing at this point is the most balanced attack in years. He's making defensive coordinators defend everything, the complex runs, the options, misdirections, the TE's, and WR's. And at the same time, he's constantly finding ways to get our weapons open. Can he do a better job of getting the 2nd and 3rd options fed? Sure. But when your primary weapons can't be stopped, you don't stray from it.

Call it whatever offense you want, Roman is clearly playing chess, and you're missing out if you're not appreciating it!

you're just calling it chess. he screwed up 2 game plans in a row on purpose for a bigger goal? no.
we have more weapons than boldin and davis which is the point. use all of our legit weapons. macdonald is a legit weapon.
hunter is a legit weapon. there's no reason they shouldn't be integral too. it's not genius to just finding ways to get the same people open when you have other capable people sitting around as decoys..

our 2 tight ends should be tops in the nfl period. there isn't a better combo by anyone and i feel is better than even the one the patriots had last season.

hunter barely gets the ball but has 3 rushing td's this year.

use them without ceasing make the defensive coordinators go into the meeting saying ok we have no shot because if we key in on gore boldin and davis they still have macondald hunter and baldwin, let's just have a silent prayer before the game and hope for the best.

if we use these other guys it makes it impossible to key in on our primary weapons and they get even more impact on the game. more is more not less is more.

also he continues to start kyle williams he doesn't get a pass on that.

like i said he's getting there. it's not some grand chess game, he just simply stopped being cute and he needs to continue to not be cute and we need to continue to engineer 12 play 8 minute back breaking drives.
which we are more than capable of doing. we shredded a good titans defense, the one that barely lost in seattle and forced 5 fumbles.

so i don't hate roman and im not hard on him without reason at this point he's getting there, and hopefully its arrow up every single game from here on out even in the super bowl.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I understand the constructive criticism with Roman. However I think people often overlook the bigger picture. What we're seeing at this point is the most balanced attack in years. He's making defensive coordinators defend everything, the complex runs, the options, misdirections, the TE's, and WR's. And at the same time, he's constantly finding ways to get our weapons open. Can he do a better job of getting the 2nd and 3rd options fed? Sure. But when your primary weapons can't be stopped, you don't stray from it.

Call it whatever offense you want, Roman is clearly playing chess, and you're missing out if you're not appreciating it!

you're just calling it chess. he screwed up 2 game plans in a row on purpose for a bigger goal? no.
we have more weapons than boldin and davis which is the point. use all of our legit weapons. macdonald is a legit weapon.
hunter is a legit weapon. there's no reason they shouldn't be integral too. it's not genius to just finding ways to get the same people open when you have other capable people sitting around as decoys..

our 2 tight ends should be tops in the nfl period. there isn't a better combo by anyone and i feel is better than even the one the patriots had last season.

hunter barely gets the ball but has 3 rushing td's this year.

use them without ceasing make the defensive coordinators go into the meeting saying ok we have no shot because if we key in on gore boldin and davis they still have macondald hunter and baldwin, let's just have a silent prayer before the game and hope for the best.

if we use these other guys it makes it impossible to key in on our primary weapons and they get even more impact on the game. more is more not less is more.

also he continues to start kyle williams he doesn't get a pass on that.

like i said he's getting there. it's not some grand chess game, he just simply stopped being cute and he needs to continue to not be cute and we need to continue to engineer 12 play 8 minute back breaking drives.
which we are more than capable of doing. we shredded a good titans defense, the one that barely lost in seattle and forced 5 fumbles.

so i don't hate roman and im not hard on him without reason at this point he's getting there, and hopefully its arrow up every single game from here on out even in the super bowl.

That's fair, although I honestly feel like Mcdonald is a tad bit overrated on this board, I agree he's a solid back up, but I would not put him at the top of the NFL list, no way. Same with Hunter, who is a solid 2nd back.

Just the simple fact that the whole world knows VD is a threat, and he's STILL catching passes (4 games straight now) tells you how Roman is playing the game behind the game. His game plans have been money for 4 games straight, and you don't stray away from that for the sake of getting back up players involved, in other words, he's not gonna come into the office and be like "Ok Vernon is clearly unstoppable, maybe we should start throwing more to Mcdonald this week."

You do it until teams stop it, and when they do and Roman STILL doesn't get others involved, then I will complain.

Just my opinion.

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I love the fact that for almost 4 games straight, the offense is clearly in attack mode.

Don't give a f**k what anyone says, props to Roman.

he's getting there. he just shouldn't have wasted 2 games basically messing around.

this is who we've always been. he still needs to get kyle williams out of there.

but im glad macdonald is in more. and he should be in even more

and im glad hunter is in more he needs to get more touches.

we're getting there.

i thought and still think this is the year where we put it together elite offense and elite defense

I understand the constructive criticism with Roman. However I think people often overlook the bigger picture. What we're seeing at this point is the most balanced attack in years. He's making defensive coordinators defend everything, the complex runs, the options, misdirections, the TE's, and WR's. And at the same time, he's constantly finding ways to get our weapons open. Can he do a better job of getting the 2nd and 3rd options fed? Sure. But when your primary weapons can't be stopped, you don't stray from it.

Call it whatever offense you want, Roman is clearly playing chess, and you're missing out if you're not appreciating it!

I'm with you verb1der. With the limited number of pass plays being called, or increased number of run plays, depending on how you want to look at it, the 49ers are looking to maximize the potential of the pass plays being called. That means getting the ball into the hands of the top pass catchers. At this moment, it is Boldin and VD with the next guy being a distant third.

They like to pass out of run formations/personnel so on many pass plays, the initial key that the 49ers want to give the opposing defense is 'run'. This means having the second TE (Vance) and the FB act like they are going to run block. This also may remove them (TE2 and FB) from running pass routes on passing plays. It looks very limited in what they do, but in actuality what they are doing is increasing the probability that the main target gets open. Less route runners also means less defenders downfield if it's man coverage.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I love the fact that for almost 4 games straight, the offense is clearly in attack mode.

Don't give a f**k what anyone says, props to Roman.

he's getting there. he just shouldn't have wasted 2 games basically messing around.

this is who we've always been. he still needs to get kyle williams out of there.

but im glad macdonald is in more. and he should be in even more

and im glad hunter is in more he needs to get more touches.

we're getting there.

i thought and still think this is the year where we put it together elite offense and elite defense

I understand the constructive criticism with Roman. However I think people often overlook the bigger picture. What we're seeing at this point is the most balanced attack in years. He's making defensive coordinators defend everything, the complex runs, the options, misdirections, the TE's, and WR's. And at the same time, he's constantly finding ways to get our weapons open. Can he do a better job of getting the 2nd and 3rd options fed? Sure. But when your primary weapons can't be stopped, you don't stray from it.

Call it whatever offense you want, Roman is clearly playing chess, and you're missing out if you're not appreciating it!

I'm with you verb1der. With the limited number of pass plays being called, or increased number of run plays, depending on how you want to look at it, the 49ers are looking to maximize the potential of the pass plays being called. That means getting the ball into the hands of the top pass catchers. At this moment, it is Boldin and VD with the next guy being a distant third.

They like to pass out of run formations/personnel so on many pass plays, the initial key that the 49ers want to give the opposing defense is 'run'. This means having the second TE (Vance) and the FB act like they are going to run block. This also may remove them (TE2 and FB) from running pass routes on passing plays. It looks very limited in what they do, but in actuality what they are doing is increasing the probability that the main target gets open. Less route runners also means less defenders downfield if it's man coverage.

Very well put. Thank you!!!

Originally posted by verb1der:
That's fair, although I honestly feel like Mcdonald is a tad bit overrated on this board, I agree he's a solid back up, but I would not put him at the top of the NFL list, no way. Same with Hunter, who is a solid 2nd back.

Just the simple fact that the whole world knows VD is a threat, and he's STILL catching passes (4 games straight now) tells you how Roman is playing the game behind the game. His game plans have been money for 4 games straight, and you don't stray away from that for the sake of getting back up players involved, in other words, he's not gonna come into the office and be like "Ok Vernon is clearly unstoppable, maybe we should start throwing more to Mcdonald this week."

You do it until teams stop it, and when they do and Roman STILL doesn't get others involved, then I will complain.

Just my opinion.

overrated? he came in and is an excellent blocker has proven he can make tough catches, run over people and run after the catch. he doesn't have elite speed but he has a pretty good stride and he's massive. why wouldn't we put him out there where linebackers can't run with him and safeties look like little children against him? he simply hasn't gotten the chance to show what he could do. if they used him how we used delanie last year i guarantee your opinon on him would change. they use miller in the delanie role, i don't mind miller doing some of those things but i want miller blocking and running short and i want macdonald out in space catching passes and running through people.

hunter is a starting rb in this league he's shown he's bigger faster and stronger than before the injury. i just want us to use all of our weapons before everyone continues to make threads about who we should trade for.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Too many 3 & outs it very tough on the D - especially those who are nicked up and nursing injuries like Willis.

This, I really enjoyed punting 5 straight times

Originally posted by thl408:
I'm with you verb1der. With the limited number of pass plays being called, or increased number of run plays, depending on how you want to look at it, the 49ers are looking to maximize the potential of the pass plays being called. That means getting the ball into the hands of the top pass catchers. At this moment, it is Boldin and VD with the next guy being a distant third.

They like to pass out of run formations/personnel so on many pass plays, the initial key that the 49ers want to give the opposing defense is 'run'. This means having the second TE (Vance) and the FB act like they are going to run block. This also may remove them (TE2 and FB) from running pass routes on passing plays. It looks very limited in what they do, but in actuality what they are doing is increasing the probability that the main target gets open. Less route runners also means less defenders downfield if it's man coverage.

i don't believe its limited.

roman himself has even said he needs to get macdonald more involved in the passing game lol so im not just coming from out of nowhere with this. and i said i was glad that he was out there more. we need to use him especially in the red zone.

and we need to stop using kyle williams. put in anyone else. im not here to say we need to spread it out and run 3 or 4 wr sets i have been on here begging for the run and then play action pass. but we need to give kap more options in the passing game on certain plays. because when plays are schemed to get 1 person open and it's not there its not fair to him..,

he has proven he can go through progressions so sure design a play for him to get davis of boldin open

but give him a safety net too so he isn't out there with no options.

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
This, I really enjoyed punting 5 straight times

cruise control. that's all that was. it's 24-0 and you're just trying to get through the game but we need to focus on completely breaking the other teams will so they don't think they have a chance to win

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by verb1der:
That's fair, although I honestly feel like Mcdonald is a tad bit overrated on this board, I agree he's a solid back up, but I would not put him at the top of the NFL list, no way. Same with Hunter, who is a solid 2nd back.

Just the simple fact that the whole world knows VD is a threat, and he's STILL catching passes (4 games straight now) tells you how Roman is playing the game behind the game. His game plans have been money for 4 games straight, and you don't stray away from that for the sake of getting back up players involved, in other words, he's not gonna come into the office and be like "Ok Vernon is clearly unstoppable, maybe we should start throwing more to Mcdonald this week."

You do it until teams stop it, and when they do and Roman STILL doesn't get others involved, then I will complain.

Just my opinion.

overrated? he came in and is an excellent blocker has proven he can make tough catches, run over people and run after the catch. he doesn't have elite speed but he has a pretty good stride and he's massive. why wouldn't we put him out there where linebackers can't run with him and safeties look like little children against him? he simply hasn't gotten the chance to show what he could do. if they used him how we used delanie last year i guarantee your opinon on him would change. they use miller in the delanie role, i don't mind miller doing some of those things but i want miller blocking and running short and i want macdonald out in space catching passes and running through people.

hunter is a starting rb in this league he's shown he's bigger faster and stronger than before the injury. i just want us to use all of our weapons before everyone continues to make threads about who we should trade for.

To be fair, Roman is using Mcdonald & Hunter. Mcdonald was the prime target on a deep bomb yesterday but Kaep overthrew it, maybe anticipating VD's speed? lol

And Hunter scored a TD last week. So they are making an effort to involve these guys, they're just not the top targets.

Originally posted by verb1der:
To be fair, Roman is using Mcdonald & Hunter. Mcdonald was the prime target on a deep bomb yesterday but Kaep overthrew it, maybe anticipating VD's speed? lol

And Hunter scored a TD last week. So they are making an effort to involve these guys, they're just not the top targets.

this was game 7 lol i am saying we should have been doing it since game 1.

i also said we're getting there and it was good to see him finally use him more than just as a blocker so im not in here spewing things and not giving credit he's starting to come around.

and hunter scoring is a testament to him. he barely gets touches but usually makes a big play. we were running screens with anthony dixon. there's no point in a game where dixon should be in before hunter.

notice yesterday we didn't trot him out there to get the short yard td's we danced with the person who brought us (gore) which is the right thing to do.

in essence we are using them but "we need more cowbell"

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by thl408:
I'm with you verb1der. With the limited number of pass plays being called, or increased number of run plays, depending on how you want to look at it, the 49ers are looking to maximize the potential of the pass plays being called. That means getting the ball into the hands of the top pass catchers. At this moment, it is Boldin and VD with the next guy being a distant third.

They like to pass out of run formations/personnel so on many pass plays, the initial key that the 49ers want to give the opposing defense is 'run'. This means having the second TE (Vance) and the FB act like they are going to run block. This also may remove them (TE2 and FB) from running pass routes on passing plays. It looks very limited in what they do, but in actuality what they are doing is increasing the probability that the main target gets open. Less route runners also means less defenders downfield if it's man coverage.

i don't believe its limited.

roman himself has even said he needs to get macdonald more involved in the passing game lol so im not just coming from out of nowhere with this. and i said i was glad that he was out there more. we need to use him especially in the red zone.

and we need to stop using kyle williams. put in anyone else. im not here to say we need to spread it out and run 3 or 4 wr sets i have been on here begging for the run and then play action pass. but we need to give kap more options in the passing game on certain plays. because when plays are schemed to get 1 person open and it's not there its not fair to him..,

he has proven he can go through progressions so sure design a play for him to get davis of boldin open

but give him a safety net too so he isn't out there with no options.

Gotcha. I didn't mean to imply that you specifically thought the 49ers passing attack was limited in what they did. Just that some posters have alluded to the fact that no other receivers besides Boldin and VD get play calls designed specifically to get them the ball and that it makes the passing game seem like it is not reaching its full potential. While some of this may be true, the passing attack is very near its potential, at this stage in Kap's career. It's not like Baldwin, Kyle, and Vance are getting huge separation, but no looks from Kap. The 49ers are increasing their chances that a pass play succeeds by throwing it to the players that are most likely to make it a success. This is good practice considering the limited number of pass plays being called over the past few weeks. As long as Kap isn't throwing into double coverage (which he did on a 2nd quarter pass to VD that was nearly picked off), it's okay to keep throwing to VD and Boldin. Kap's YPA proves that this is okay.

Totally agree on the underlined. Give Kap one hot read just so there is a safety valve in case the blitz isn't picked up or the downfield options are covered. Something else besides scrambling for his life.

I wouldn't put much stock into what coaches say when it comes to who they should get going in the offensive game plan. To me, it's coach's speak to misdirect the opposition. Why say,"Naw, no plans for Vance to get involved. Opposing DCs can just disregard him."

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by verb1der:
To be fair, Roman is using Mcdonald & Hunter. Mcdonald was the prime target on a deep bomb yesterday but Kaep overthrew it, maybe anticipating VD's speed? lol

And Hunter scored a TD last week. So they are making an effort to involve these guys, they're just not the top targets.

this was game 7 lol i am saying we should have been doing it since game 1.

i also said we're getting there and it was good to see him finally use him more than just as a blocker so im not in here spewing things and not giving credit he's starting to come around.

and hunter scoring is a testament to him. he barely gets touches but usually makes a big play. we were running screens with anthony dixon. there's no point in a game where dixon should be in before hunter.

notice yesterday we didn't trot him out there to get the short yard td's we danced with the person who brought us (gore) which is the right thing to do.

in essence we are using them but "we need more cowbell"

I get ur point. You have a higher expectations than I do on certain aspects of the O. And I do agree about getting Hunter more touches, esp when you have a 24 pt lead!

^^^ nice civilized conversation people!