Greg Roman, is he really good?

Cleveland please take him. We will add in Colt McCoy as well.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed as well. And here is more proof of the AR offense...an offense that ultimately cost us again.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/harbaugh-kaepernick-made-correct-read-final-play

Matt Maiocco (MM) interviewing Jim Harbaugh (JH):

MM: "Colin said after the game that his mind was made up "pre snap" where to go with the ball. Is that the right call in that situation...that play, to go ahead and make that decision where you're going to throw the ball before the ball is even snapped?"
JH: "Pre snap decisions are made based on the route call (Roman/play calling), the matchups, coverage...I guess that does happen on certain pass plays."
MM: "Is that one of those (AR) plays?"
JH: "Yes."
MM: "So when you look at the film and review that, was that the correct call...thing to do?"
JH: "Yes."

Again, CK is merely executing the play based on the play called in by Roman et. al "pre snap" and signed off by Harbaugh.

Harbaugh will not throw Kap under the bus, so he supports his QB. This is nothing new. This play is also not an AR play as Kap has other options to utilize. Had Sherman been playing with a cushion and/or used a bail technique after showing press cover (pre-snap), no way Kap throws a fade. But, because Kap can see Sherman's numbers on the back of his jersey, Kap believes there is a window to throw the fade. What Kap didn't recognize is that Sherman is not only even, but he's above Crabs. This means Crabs must overtake Sherman to have a good chance on the pass.

This is bail technique and it would completely defeat Crabs' route. This is not what Sherman used here, but if he had, Kap doesn't make this throw. Point is, there are still additional keys that Kap must analyze before pulling the trigger on this pass, so it's not AR. One is saftey help. The other is CB leverage.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed as well. And here is more proof of the AR offense...an offense that ultimately cost us again.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/harbaugh-kaepernick-made-correct-read-final-play

Matt Maiocco (MM) interviewing Jim Harbaugh (JH):

MM: "Colin said after the game that his mind was made up "pre snap" where to go with the ball. Is that the right call in that situation...that play, to go ahead and make that decision where you're going to throw the ball before the ball is even snapped?"
JH: "Pre snap decisions are made based on the route call (Roman/play calling), the matchups, coverage...I guess that does happen on certain pass plays."
MM: "Is that one of those (AR) plays?"
JH: "Yes."
MM: "So when you look at the film and review that, was that the correct call...thing to do?"
JH: "Yes."

Again, CK is merely executing the play based on the play called in by Roman et. al "pre snap" and signed off by Harbaugh.

Harbaugh will not throw Kap under the bus, so he supports his QB. This is nothing new. This play is also not an AR play as Kap has other options to utilize. Had Sherman been playing with a cushion and/or used a bail technique after showing press cover (pre-snap), no way Kap throws a fade. But, because Kap can see Sherman's numbers on the back of his jersey, Kap believes there is a window to throw the fade. What Kap didn't recognize is that Sherman is not only even, but he's above Crabs. This means Crabs must overtake Sherman to have a good chance on the pass.

This is bail technique and it would completely defeat Crabs' route. This is not what Sherman used here, but if he had, Kap doesn't make this throw. Point is, there are still additional keys that Kap must analyze before pulling the trigger on this pass, so it's not AR. One is saftey help. The other is CB leverage.

I don't know man, that's pretty black-and-white to me b/c he flat out admitted that some calls are made pre-snap and that this was one of them. Given how quickly CK threw and how he didn't bother to look left (where all the other receivers were) it's hard to argue against a pre-determined AR here IMHO. Fine points about coverage technique and S vision but this one is pretty clear. No worries if you had this one as a PS play and a poor pre-snap read or (right read but poor execution).

Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't know man, that's pretty black-and-white to me b/c he flat out admitted that some calls are made pre-snap and that this was one of them. Given how quickly CK threw and how he didn't bother to look left (where all the other receivers were) it's hard to argue against a pre-determined AR here IMHO. Fine points about coverage technique and S vision but this one is pretty clear. No worries if you had this one as a PS play and a poor pre-snap read or (right read but poor execution).

Kap liked his pre-snap read and went with it, which is why he was very decisive with the throw. Had Earl Thomas moved over to a cover2 look (give Sherman help over the top), instead of staying in the middle of the field, Kap doesn't test both Thomas and Sherman with this throw. Crabs' was the primary read, but he was not the only available option on this play. I can see why you believe it is an AR play based off of what Harbaugh said in his presser, but do you believe for one minute that Jim would say that there were other options for Kap? Now the questions are directed back on Kap as he faces the heat. Jim is being a good coach and saying Kap did what he was supposed to do.

A QB can't throw a fade versus a CB that has both a position (leverage) and a height advantage.

^also didn't put enough air under it if he's gonna take that risk..... if the ball is further into the back of the endzone only crabtree can make a play on it.

I know there are two sides on this play and I fully understand why many of us feel this is the correct decision. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just trying to illustrate the side that thinks this is the incorrect throw to make. I'm sick of looking at this play and if anyone wants I can remove it from my posts so we don't have to look at it anymore. F this play.

Originally posted by thl408:

OMG PATTON WAS WIDE OPEN TO THE LEFT FOR A HUGE GAIN!!!!!

Originally posted by thl408:
I know there are two sides on this play and I fully understand why many of us feel this is the correct decision. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just trying to illustrate the side that thinks this is the incorrect throw to make. I'm sick of looking at this play and if anyone wants I can remove it from my posts so we don't have to look at it anymore. F this play.

No, no, no! Leave it...we get better as fans learning from it (esp. covering both sides). Man, a Captain Check-down sure would have worked on this one; even a laser to Boldin or quick-out to Patton esp. after all the DB's backed off to cover VD and Boldin initially. But you are so right that even when he released the ball, Sherman was ahead of Crabtree AND had perfect positioning as a "defensive receiver" looking back at the throw; Sherman really should have picked this one off rather easily (and Crabtree didn't do much to jump back for the ball or adjust to the throw IMHO).

this play was completely killed when Sherman failed to bite on the wimpy hesitation fake by crabs. Kap should have read that and gone elsewhere. end of story

Originally posted by VDSF:
OMG PATTON WAS WIDE OPEN TO THE LEFT FOR A HUGE GAIN!!!!!

no he wasn't
there are 2 defenders looking right at kap on that side of the field.

he throws it to patton they immediately come up to try to make the tackle.

vd would be a non factor he was running an out route and not paying attention to anything but that.

the only thing i could see is throwing it to boldin but he looks more open than he is because the safety leaves because the throw is made so early.

patton would have been about a 5 yard gain and that's good.

the play call itself is what was horrible.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
no he wasn't
there are 2 defenders looking right at kap on that side of the field.

he throws it to patton they immediately come up to try to make the tackle.

vd would be a non factor he was running an out route and not paying attention to anything but that.

the only thing i could see is throwing it to boldin but he looks more open than he is because the safety leaves because the throw is made so early.

patton would have been about a 5 yard gain and that's good.

the play call itself is what was horrible.

This exactly.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't know man, that's pretty black-and-white to me b/c he flat out admitted that some calls are made pre-snap and that this was one of them. Given how quickly CK threw and how he didn't bother to look left (where all the other receivers were) it's hard to argue against a pre-determined AR here IMHO. Fine points about coverage technique and S vision but this one is pretty clear. No worries if you had this one as a PS play and a poor pre-snap read or (right read but poor execution).

Kap liked his pre-snap read and went with it, which is why he was very decisive with the throw. Had Earl Thomas moved over to a cover2 look (give Sherman help over the top), instead of staying in the middle of the field, Kap doesn't test both Thomas and Sherman with this throw. Crabs' was the primary read, but he was not the only available option on this play. I can see why you believe it is an AR play based off of what Harbaugh said in his presser, but do you believe for one minute that Jim would say that there were other options for Kap? Now the questions are directed back on Kap as he faces the heat. Jim is being a good coach and saying Kap did what he was supposed to do.

A QB can't throw a fade versus a CB that has both a position (leverage) and a height advantage.

This GIF is exactly what I was thinking happened. Kap had no other time to look elsewhere. Anthony Davis is absolutely abused off the snap. Ball had to be out in about 2.5 seconds (Mississippi counts )

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, no, no! Leave it...we get better as fans learning from it (esp. covering both sides). Man, a Captain Check-down sure would have worked on this one; even a laser to Boldin or quick-out to Patton esp. after all the DB's backed off to cover VD and Boldin initially. But you are so right that even when he released the ball, Sherman was ahead of Crabtree AND had perfect positioning as a "defensive receiver" looking back at the throw; Sherman really should have picked this one off rather easily (and Crabtree didn't do much to jump back for the ball or adjust to the throw IMHO).

the play itself is greg roman.

its why i tried and tried and tried to look at the bright side of things.

all the s**t he fooled us with leading up to the games that we thought he had changed

lets look at this from the past 5 games.

ATL. 1st half HORRIBLE
2nd half runs the things we've been begging him to run all year. wr screens. switches up systems. offense unstoppable.

Arizona 1st quarter starts his trend of making it a point to get a wr involved. this game it was boldin. we switch up systems and continue with the success.
we get the lead and in roman fashion he shuts down the offense.. only to eek out a win from what should have been an easy blowout.

Gb- comes out with the same intent of getting a wr going, this time its crab. the offense is fine but his red zone play calling rears its head YET AGAIN and we can't score td's thankfully in the 2nd half kap made every play he had to. the design of these plays isn't what saved us it was kap making the play.

Carolina- same red zone issues and the line looks lost in the 1st half until the end of the 2nd quarter when roman decides to dial up an offensive flow. we come out after half and get it done. it wasn't pretty but we put it far enough out of reach that the defense could key in.

Seattle.. most important game
he regresses and its his 1st game ever planning or calling a game again.
no wr screens
no stacked wr to escape the jam at the line
no quick running plays and actually didn't even STICK with running.
predictable 1st down runs predictable formations and passes. we see the option coming and so does seattle.
kap makes the best of a situation and lifts the team to a lead and then lifts the team to reclaim the lead while not getting help
no more running with the edge even though hunter had success
no more controlling the clock to make sure we don't give the ball back.
nothing imaginative
he tries to run a toss sweep throwback pass on one of the biggest possessions of the season.

our passing situation becomes
either in tight
or 4 wide
nothing else.

we move the ball
we have 2 timeouts.

what does he dial up?
essentially the same play that ended the super bowl
why?
because he is stubborn and ignorant.
because i believe he felt in his mind that when it works he's going to get to thumb his nose at the critics. he's going to toot his own horn.

this offense never reached near its potential
and that is because of roman.
forget the "kap can't do this crap"

the things we didn't do ANY QB could do.

consistent screens consistent roll out passes consistent play action fakes consistent stacked wr routes consistent ways to get vd away from the jam at the los

these are things colt mccoy could do so don't blame kap for that crap
not for this prick's idea of a cruel joke.

he cost us a championship.
literally
he ran 3 straight plays to the same person on the same side of the field from 5 yards away
even if we run it with gore
or
we line up heavy and do the vd touchdown play we have a damn championship right right now.

if we run anything other than the play we ran we have at least 4 more chances to get it in with 2 timeouts left.

but no.

and frankly i just can't deal with it anymore.
people will say well who?
keep the playbook
fire roman because after 3 seasons as a coordinator he has not grown AN INCH not one but we expect our qb to grow leaps and bounds and develop
when the coach cannot grow?
keep the playbook someone else call the plays
honestly jim should snatch the playbook from roman in key situations because he is the one who chokes
he is the one who can't get plays in on time
he is the one who is stubborn
we have to wait a whole new year to even TRY again. we just got to this one..

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
This GIF is exactly what I was thinking happened. Kap had no other time to look elsewhere. Anthony Davis is absolutely abused off the snap. Ball had to be out in about 2.5 seconds (Mississippi counts )

EXACTLY
people are saying look to this or that

look to anyone other than the 1st read he is SACKED

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
EXACTLY
people are saying look to this or that

look to anyone other than the 1st read he is SACKED

Rather take a sack and a timeout there than a throw at richard sherman, but that's just me