Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed...although, 1.5 years we should see WCO basic principals in the passing game and right now, I don't see those.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Great video that really refutes so many anti-Smith claims! I love the fact that Walsh says--"If the DB is behind or next to the WR you go somewhere else." and that decision is made quickly so you can hit open routes. In other words, when the anti bunch claims there are open receivers just because the DB is ten yards deeper, Walsh would say don't throw the go route.
If Walsh was coaching this team he would have a blast with this receiver group. He didn't need them to be super to be Super Bowl winners. And I agree that Roman is the antithesis of BW...but perhaps those are things to come as they mature in the system.
There are a lot of WCO elements to Roman's passing game. In regards to the vid, these are fundamentals for the qb, but I'm pretty sure any OC worth his salt already knows of these ideas. Back to the deep ball issues. Pretty sure dtg is right. Deep routes are generally looked at first. Doesn't take very long to recognized if the defender is beaten and/or the safety is in position to make the play on the ball. There are times were the deep route is only used for clearing out for something underneath to get that critical 1st down.
2 examples of these in the last game: Playaction with Randy Moss as the only WR in the formation. After the playaction Smith whipped his head around to look at Moss going deep downfield. Randy was bracketted by his defender and the safety on top. Smith quickly turned to his right to make a wide open outlet RB route throw to Hunter(?) resulted in a 1st down or very close. In this example, Randy was part of the initial read progression.
Another one is the throw to Manningham underneath, with Randy Moss running deep into the left corner of the back of the end zone. Initially Randy got the attention of his defender and the safety, but once the safety recognized Manningham was wide open underneath, he had to leave Randy to defend the pass to Mannigham. In this example, Randy is mainly the decoy to get Manningham the underneath.
Guys like Randy is giving us the underneath stuff more often than not. That's why we are see so many 'checkdown' as the Zone known it to be -- any short underneath throws
The deep pass required a lot of timing on the throw. Even if the receiver have got his defender beaten, the qb has to account for the safety coming over. And even then the qb is guessing that his throw will beat the safety with the timing. This is why it's such low percentage. Remember that Walsh said, for every step a qb take in his drop back the defender can cover 3-4 yards. You applied that to a qb hesitation or lack of timing in his deep ball throws and that safety can cover a lot of ground to make a play on what seems to be an open receiver.
Great post!
I think this is the fundamental difference in Roman vs. Walsh/WCO; Roman calls specific plays designed to get ONE guy the ball while the others play a significant role in the success of that play (e.g. Randy draws 2 guys, we hit Hunter/Gore underneath while Manningham, down field, is already blocking when the ball is in the air).
This is fundamentally different from the WCO where there are primary receivers (usually one or two WR's), an alternate read (TE) and an outlet (backs) and it starts with the top-down progression reads. We certainly don't do this esp. with VD, Gore/Hunter.
Roman's plays seem to target one receiver by design and we have no consistent alternates or real outlets. I am starting to see a few more progression reads but to me, clearly, plays are mostly designed to get one guy open and if that guy is covered (by a physical secondary), we really don't have a plan B.
In the WCO, there is a plan B, C & D built into "virtually every single play." ~ BW
[ Edited by NCommand on Nov 1, 2012 at 11:29 AM ]