Colin Kaepernick

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by alex2125:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by alex2125:

It's what I've been saying all along. Kap is not and will not be a starting QB in the NFL. This team's success is not sustainable if Kap is asked to start for an extended period of time. To think we will win by developing some hybrid of the Pistol/Option offense is wishful thinking. The Nfl is too fast and too athletic to get away with that for any extended period of time.

For those who believe Kap is developing or can develop into a traditional QB, I ask what you are basing that on? Everything I have seen in games (college/NFL), read about him in practice, tells me he is what he is = an athletic option QB with a strong arm.

Kap can be great in small portion sizes. He could even win a game or two ala Troy Smith. The option is hard to stop if you haven't prepared for it all week, remember the Wildcat's initial success. But Kap is a Gimmick QB.

Kap is still only slightly better than Tebow.

Well Jesus Christ! Fire Baalke and hire this guy. I had no idea the guys getting paid to evaluate talent were so wrong.

I'm not bashing Baalke. In no way am I a talent evaluator or scout. But This Is the Forum to state my own personal Opinions. That is all. If you want to disagree, then please do. If you want to resort to the "Who the hell does this guy think he is?" argument, then by all means do that to.

Baalke is one of the best GM's in my opinion. But he is not perfect either, see: Johnson, Ronald.

The difference is, I don't pretend to know more than the guys making the decisions. We have no more than a couple of blogs, highlights, and a handful of preseason snaps to base our entire body of knowledge on. You may very well be right, but I would chalk that up to coincidence instead of having intimate knowledge that the professionals are privy to. That's not to say that professionals don't make mistakes. Of course they do. There is failure with every NFL professional, but I trust these guys when they say that this guy is project and will be a talented player down the road. Too many chicken littles want to chime in because he hasn't realized his potential. The sky is the limit with Kaep, but I won't say definitively, one way or the other, whether he will or won't be a successful starting QB. There simply is not enough information to base that opinion.

Yes I don't disagree with anything you are saying. And I'm usually the guy saying those same words to other Chicken Littles. This is the one time that I had a very strong opinion about a player coming out and he happened to be drafted to my favorite team. I realize what I'm saying when I use words like "never be a starting QB". I am putting myself out there and it appears that I think I know more than coaches and GM's. That is not the case.

I've watched Kap a long time as he is a local kid and followed his college career. I can't believe he's made it this far and I wish him success. But I have a opinion on him be a starting QB for this or any NFL team. And I don't just want to say "Kap sucks! Alex is great!"

If I'm wrong, crow I will eat.

Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
Most of the Kaepernick HATERS are Alex Smith groupies..........even after a pretty good outing they still complain did they forget it took Smith 7 years to become a average QB?????.................Give Kaep time just like you did with your American Idol Alex Smith

That`s what most of us are saying... we want to give Kaep time because that`s what he needs... time.

He is a hell of a runner, but you cannot just have a running QB, unless you want a Tim Tebow offense. Kaep`s got a hell of an arm too, but his decision making is sub-par. He had an open WR but threw it too late, almost resulting in a pick. He took what looked like to me an unnecessary sack (instead of moving up in the pocket, he started to scramble). And lastly, he`s too quick to run instead of staying in the pocket to pass. Isn`t that what many people bashed Alex Smith for years about? He was too quick to roll out instead of hang in the pocket and find the open receiver.

Originally posted by NV9erfan:
"Took bad sacks"?? Really? He was sacked once. Tolz was also sacked once and for more yards than Kap. Kaepernick had a 60% completion rate, no turnovers, and led the team on 2 scoring drives. Yeah, he's terrible.

Dude calm down and read the whole post. I already said that is was sack and not sacks in a later post. That doesn't change the relevance of his performance in the game.

He ran it great, he made some nice plays outside of the pocket, but he still looked shaky in the pocket. I was hoping for improvement in that area. His release and specifically his release combined with hesitation is a recipe for turnovers all game long. The throw last night should have been picked off for sure.

There was a mix of good and bad last night. I'm not saying he is horrible, but I want to see him get better before I'll be comfortable with him behind Smith. No hate at all. I still want to develop him even if he doesn't show more the rest of the pre-season.

Originally posted by ElDannMann:

Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
Most of the Kaepernick HATERS are Alex Smith groupies..........even after a pretty good outing they still complain did they forget it took Smith 7 years to become a average QB?????.................Give Kaep time just like you did with your American Idol Alex Smith

That`s what most of us are saying... we want to give Kaep time because that`s what he needs... time.

He is a hell of a runner, but you cannot just have a running QB, unless you want a Tim Tebow offense. Kaep`s got a hell of an arm too, but his decision making is sub-par. He had an open WR but threw it too late, almost resulting in a pick. He took what looked like to me an unnecessary sack (instead of moving up in the pocket, he started to scramble). And lastly, he`s too quick to run instead of staying in the pocket to pass. Isn`t that what many people bashed Alex Smith for years about? He was too quick to roll out instead of hang in the pocket and find the open receiver.

I just want CK to get his fair shot............like i pointed out MOST Smith backers NOT all of them are quick to bash on Kaep, he is pretty much making the same mistakes that a younger Smith was making when he entered the league i just think they hate the fact that one day Kaep will unseed Smith as the starter & they wont EVER learn to let it go players come & go especially the ones that are average at best. Give the kid a chance

Kaep just doesn't look like a West Coast Offense QB to me. I like the skills he has, but watching the guy he just isn't quite sharp enough to be an NFL starter. I think he gets his shot someday, but probably not here.

Originally posted by jesserdumas2:
Kaep just doesn't look like a West Coast Offense QB to me. I like the skills he has, but watching the guy he just isn't quite sharp enough to be an NFL starter. I think he gets his shot someday, but probably not here.

Just too soon for this opinion, but hey, it's a forum where speculation and predictions have to be accepted. Most know me as a huge Alex-fanboy, but I like Ck7 and am glad we can afford to give him more time to develop and prove himself. Just not willing to dismiss him or overly praise him at this time.

Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
I just want CK to get his fair shot............like i pointed out MOST Smith backers NOT all of them are quick to bash on Kaep, he is pretty much making the same mistakes that a younger Smith was making when he entered the league i just think they hate the fact that one day Kaep will unseed Smith as the starter & they wont EVER learn to let it go players come & go especially the ones that are average at best. Give the kid a chance

Sounds like projecting to me. I do think there is some tweaking by a few for all the people who wanted KAep to start lat season, but overall I'm not seeing anyone who is giving up on him like many did with Smith.

The reality is that he didn't look good in the pocket. He doesn't have to play this season even if it doesn't improve so it doesn't matter. In the end he'll play if he earns it.

Originally posted by alex2125:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by alex2125:
It's what I've been saying all along. Kap is not and will not be a starting QB in the NFL. This team's success is not sustainable if Kap is asked to start for an extended period of time. To think we will win by developing some hybrid of the Pistol/Option offense is wishful thinking. The Nfl is too fast and too athletic to get away with that for any extended period of time.

For those who believe Kap is developing or can develop into a traditional QB, I ask what you are basing that on? Everything I have seen in games (college/NFL), read about him in practice, tells me he is what he is = an athletic option QB with a strong arm.

Kap can be great in small portion sizes. He could even win a game or two ala Troy Smith. The option is hard to stop if you haven't prepared for it all week, remember the Wildcat's initial success. But Kap is a Gimmick QB.

Kap is still only slightly better than Tebow.

Clearly Harbaugh disagrees with you or he wouldn't have drafted KP, wouldn't be installing the very things you're saying won't work and wouldn't have declared him the backup to Smith. You might eventually be right, who knows...but the one person who is responsible for making all of things happen disagrees with you completely, and that's fairly obvious.

You are right GOFD. and I respect your opinion above most. I usually subscribe to that same theory. Let Harbaugh and Baalke do their thing and let's see how things play out. But I had such strong opinions of Kap coming out of college, even before he was a 49er. Surely a DraftNik such as yourself has had similar opinions on certain players coming out. I think we Can have opinions about unfinished prospects. And mine about Kap is based on something more than, "Alex is good! Kap is bad!" I've watched Kap for awhile. He is a local kid and a great person and success story.

If Harbaugh turns our offense into the Pistol/spread/option and Kap can be a winning QB for the 49ers, then Great! I will cook my crow and gladly eat it.

I respect that, I just think it seems clear what the plan is for Kap...devise an offense to fit his strengths and get young players around him (James, Jenkins, Hunter now, and others down the road) that are more spread/read-option/pistol-oriented. The older players we have seem much more traditional WCO types, and that fits what Alex/Tolzien seem to do best. But in parallel, it seems Harbaugh is also crafting something for the future. Whether it's an all-out pistol/read-option offense, and whether it's 2-3 years down the road or in small doses this year, who really knows. But those elements are definitely being added and Kap seems the perfect QB to execute them.

Again, just my opinion based on my observation.

Its ridiculous how the same people who cried about giving Alex more time to improve refuse to believe that Kap can get better. Pathetic.

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Its ridiculous how the same people who cried about giving Alex more time to improve refuse to believe that Kap can get better. Pathetic.

Name one person who has said that.

Kaep is a project. I said after we drafted him he needs about four years on the sideline learning the art of QB'ing if he ever has a chance. Personally, I don't ever think he will be good. I wanted us to draft Dalton and was pissed when we got Kaep. We'll see though. He should be the third stringer this year, that's for sure.

What are you guys basing your opinion of Kaepernick on? 5 preseason games? There just isn't enough here to think one way or another. Harbaugh, Baalke, Roman, etc. are around him everyday and are assuredly working their tails off coaching this guy up. They are around him a lot more than we are.

Now, what do WE actually know? We know that Kap is a physical freak with great talent. We know that he is raw and is a project. You cannot say one way or another that he will fail or succeed at this point in the game. He's a work in progress. 5 preseason games is not enough to judge whether this pick will work out or not. Just have to be patient and hope Alex can lock the job down until Kap is given his chance down the road.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by alex2125:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by alex2125:
It's what I've been saying all along. Kap is not and will not be a starting QB in the NFL. This team's success is not sustainable if Kap is asked to start for an extended period of time. To think we will win by developing some hybrid of the Pistol/Option offense is wishful thinking. The Nfl is too fast and too athletic to get away with that for any extended period of time.

For those who believe Kap is developing or can develop into a traditional QB, I ask what you are basing that on? Everything I have seen in games (college/NFL), read about him in practice, tells me he is what he is = an athletic option QB with a strong arm.

Kap can be great in small portion sizes. He could even win a game or two ala Troy Smith. The option is hard to stop if you haven't prepared for it all week, remember the Wildcat's initial success. But Kap is a Gimmick QB.

Kap is still only slightly better than Tebow.

Clearly Harbaugh disagrees with you or he wouldn't have drafted KP, wouldn't be installing the very things you're saying won't work and wouldn't have declared him the backup to Smith. You might eventually be right, who knows...but the one person who is responsible for making all of things happen disagrees with you completely, and that's fairly obvious.

You are right GOFD. and I respect your opinion above most. I usually subscribe to that same theory. Let Harbaugh and Baalke do their thing and let's see how things play out. But I had such strong opinions of Kap coming out of college, even before he was a 49er. Surely a DraftNik such as yourself has had similar opinions on certain players coming out. I think we Can have opinions about unfinished prospects. And mine about Kap is based on something more than, "Alex is good! Kap is bad!" I've watched Kap for awhile. He is a local kid and a great person and success story.

If Harbaugh turns our offense into the Pistol/spread/option and Kap can be a winning QB for the 49ers, then Great! I will cook my crow and gladly eat it.

I respect that, I just think it seems clear what the plan is for Kap...devise an offense to fit his strengths and get young players around him (James, Jenkins, Hunter now, and others down the road) that are more spread/read-option/pistol-oriented. The older players we have seem much more traditional WCO types, and that fits what Alex/Tolzien seem to do best. But in parallel, it seems Harbaugh is also crafting something for the future. Whether it's an all-out pistol/read-option offense, and whether it's 2-3 years down the road or in small doses this year, who really knows. But those elements are definitely being added and Kap seems the perfect QB to execute them.

Again, just my opinion based on my observation.

I can see your point in that we are adding players that fit the Pistol/Option-Read offense. This is backed by the additions of those players you stated. However, whether running solely that offense is a good idea is another argument. But lets say that is Harbaugh's plan, to move to an option offense. I suggest Alex is still the QB, or at least type of QB, that you would want. While Alex does not match Colin's athleticism, Alex is underrated as a runner and all around athlete imho, and Alex does have a track record of being successful running a spread offense. I believe Alex was more complete coming out (and now of course) and I think the flaws that Colin has in his mechanics and ability to read defenses require even more time to develop than people are truly willing to wait (I'm thinking its closer to the Rodgers four year cushion).

But now I've regressed into the whole Alex vs. Colin argument. Which I don't want to do. My feelings on Colin as an NFL QB is in a vacuum and comparing it to every successful starting QB in the NFL, not just Alex or the 49ers.

Bottom line: I think we both agree that the best (and my opinion the only) way that Colin is going to be successful is if we shift the offense towards the Pistol/Read-Option Spread type offense. I guess where we disagree is if that is a good idea or not. Good debate though.

^^ It's possible that Harbaugh asks Smith to run more spread-type plays (not necessarily the pistol, but something close) as part of the base offense. Watching old Stanford games, you saw Luck in the traditional WCO, but also in plenty of pistol formations/read-option plays...Harbaugh was constantly mixing things up even before he came here, so it's more than just a gimmick or JH trying to make Kap more comfortable. I really believe that's where this offense is going, a true mix of power WC, pistol read-option and spread formations with multiple WRs/TEs.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
^^ It's possible that Harbaugh asks Smith to run more spread-type plays (not necessarily the pistol, but something close) as part of the base offense. Watching old Stanford games, you saw Luck in the traditional WCO, but also in plenty of pistol formations/read-option plays...Harbaugh was constantly mixing things up even before he came here, so it's more than just a gimmick or JH trying to make Kap more comfortable. I really believe that's where this offense is going, a true mix of power WC, pistol read-option and spread formations with multiple WRs/TEs.

JH's thinking is that the more you make a D prepare for different formations, the less effective their preparation will be.