Considering our additions at W.R. How would you rank Crabs as our W.R?

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

His average went down, as did his TD's from the prior year. Add to that the fact that 3 of his 4 TD's came against the rams, and he largely padded his receiving yards against weak NFC west oponents, and yes i think he regressed last season.

Every single WR has feasted on weak opponents and padded their stats. Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, you name him and he's done it.

Anyway, you can say whatever you want, but we both know you simply hate the guy so there's no point in going on with you.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Crabtree is still the #1 guy, anyone who says otherwise is smoking crack. Crabtree has basically been a 1000 yd a season receiver if you set aside injuries and crappy QB play. He's not a guy like Fitzgerald or Megatron but he's still the most complete receiver on this roster. Crabtree could be a good #2 for virtually every team in the league and could be in the #1 role for several teams such as the Chargers. Its nice to have a great dominant #1 WR but those guys are far and few between and a lot of teams succeed with essentially two good #2 WR's and that's actually what the 49ers could have with Crabtree and Jenkins, not sure why people are trying to dump the guy.


I see him as the #1, with Moss #2, Manningham #3 and hopefully Jenkins #4.


Long-term I'd like to see Crabtree #1, Jenkins #2, Manningham#3 and Kyle Williams #4.

If crappy QB play is the problem than how do you explain Larry Fitzgerald who puts up 1,000 yards every year even with horrific QB play. And yes their QB situation is much worse than ours. So you are giving him "1,000 yard WR" even though he never, ever did it. NEVER....

This is if moss is as in as good as shape as some have said and if crabs makes offseason camp.

1. moss
2 crabs
3 aj
4 mario
5 kw

after 8 games things are gonna change big time imo

1 aj
2 mario
3 kw
4 crabs
5 moss

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

- As far as missing Camp and remaining the starter. That wont happen this year i promise that.

I know I just said it's pointless to go on with you, but I had to take this opportunity to laugh at you.

LOL @ you. I didn't know Jim Harbaugh posts on the Zone as "IdahoNiner"

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
His average went down, as did his TD's from the prior year. Add to that the fact that 3 of his 4 TD's came against the rams, and he largely padded his receiving yards against weak NFC west oponents, and yes i think he regressed last season.

Every single WR has feasted on weak opponents and padded their stats. Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, you name him and he's done it.

Anyway, you can say whatever you want, but we both know you simply hate the guy so there's no point in going on with you.

Cool story.

Actually i was extremely happy the day we drafted him. I thought he would be the savior of the WR position after years of mediocrity. I was wrong. He has been nothing but a disappointment ever since.

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
- As far as missing Camp and remaining the starter. That wont happen this year i promise that.

I know I just said it's pointless to go on with you, but I had to take this opportunity to laugh at you.

LOL @ you. I didn't know Jim Harbaugh posts on the Zone as "IdahoNiner"

So you think that if Crabtree misses camp he will be a starter Week one? If you beleive that than i don't know what to tell you.

Fact is if Crabtree was as good as half the zone proclaims he is we wouldnt have spent a first round pic on WR.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

- As far as missing Camp and remaining the starter. That wont happen this year i promise that.

I know I just said it's pointless to go on with you, but I had to take this opportunity to laugh at you.

LOL @ you. I didn't know Jim Harbaugh posts on the Zone as "IdahoNiner"

So you think that if Crabtree misses camp he will be a starter Week one? If you beleive that than i don't know what to tell you.

Fact is if Crabtree was as good as half the zone proclaims he is we wouldnt have spent a first round pic on WR.

The point is YOU can't promise anything concerning the San Francisco 49ers with any certainty because you have nothing to do with the team, even though you apparently live in a fantasy world in which you control the decisions of Jim Harbaugh.

I won't discuss Michael Crabtree any further with you, so don't bother.

I hope if Manningham has good year we sign him to a long term deal. let Crabtree walk.

Starting 3 in 2-3 years:
-Jenkins
-Manningham
-Iwusu

I see Crabtree as a 2nd or 3rd WR. He hasnt been what they drafted him to be (trying to forget that BS holdout crap, suck it up sign the deal. Raiders were stupid to take DHB) I see him as a 3rd if Randy Moss can contribute at all, Ive liked what ive seen out of Manningham in the past, and i have confidence in the front office on Jenkins. I also think like most positions last year it might be a revolving setup, multiple fronts/lineups to try and keep the defenses guessing.

Im really looking forward to seeing the offense after a year under and an offseason in the same playbook. And wanting to see the wrinkles that will unfold

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
- As far as missing Camp and remaining the starter. That wont happen this year i promise that.

I know I just said it's pointless to go on with you, but I had to take this opportunity to laugh at you.

LOL @ you. I didn't know Jim Harbaugh posts on the Zone as "IdahoNiner"

So you think that if Crabtree misses camp he will be a starter Week one? If you beleive that than i don't know what to tell you.

Fact is if Crabtree was as good as half the zone proclaims he is we wouldnt have spent a first round pic on WR.

The point is YOU can't promise anything concerning the San Francisco 49ers with any certainty because you have nothing to do with the team, even though you apparently live in a fantasy world in which you control the decisions of Jim Harbaugh.

I won't discuss Michael Crabtree any further with you, so don't bother.

Cool story. I promise.

Maybe next time you enter a thread you can add something of substance.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by BayAreaNinersFan:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by BayAreaNinersFan:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by BayAreaNinersFan:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
The Future is This IMO.

#1 Jenkins
#2 Manningham
#3 Williams

But to answer the Poll. Crabtree will not be starting.

Williams won't even make the team. There's no way he gets past Moss, Crabtree, Manningham and Jenkins. Then, Ginn will make the roster as a return man. That's 5 receivers, there's no way they roll with 6 on the active roster even though Harbaugh said he could see it happening. That's coach talk - he doesn't want to let it be known that somebody is going to get the boot before they even start training camp. He provides no value on special teams so he won't take Ginn's spot.

As for Crabtree not starting, he's the best receiver on the roster unless Moss returns to form. The only way he doesn't start is if he's hurt.

Thats like, your opinion man.....

Crabtree wasnt even the best WR on the roster last year before Morgan got hurt. He is not the best WR on the roster now.

Like i said. Williams is going to suprise in camp.

so I'm assuming you believe Morgan was better than Crabtree?

I got you to admit you think Kyle Williams is better, so lets see how far this goes

Absolutely Morgan was, and would have continued to be the beter WR last season had Morgan not gotten hurt....Not sure where your going with this. My opinion on crabtree is largely known on these boards. He can have a good game againt the rams and pad his stats, then completely disapear when it counts. I have no love for the guy TBH. I hope im wrong and he has a great season, but i wouldnt hold my breath.

Williams is hated on purely because of the championship game. If he had not made the bonehead plays, this fan base would be touting him as the slot WR we have been looking for. Like i said, the guy had one less TD than Crabtree in way more limited action. He is gonna suprise and impress.

Well I think it is unfortunate your opinion is so well known around the boards (funny you say that with a degree of pride)..I have no desire to argue about this because it would be a very dull debate...I'll just point out a few things.
-For the third year in a row, Crabtree missed camp and yet still remained a starter. Morgan was the #3 going into 2011. So, your opinion seems at odds with the 49ers coaching staff. Couldn't Morgan at least take the spot of a guy who can't attend camp? One would think so, if he was truly better.
-Statistically, Morgan couldn't hold Crabtree's jockstrap, which sadly doesn't even say much. Why don't you look at the difference in their # of 1st down receptions, it isnt even close. not to mention catches and yards
-Harbaugh always praised Crabtree for his work ethic and overall commitment. Look at his comments on how Crabtree saved Christmas..
-it doesn't mean anything to say Morgan was better than Crabtree in 2011 before he got injured, since Crabtree missed a lot of time early on and started to get back into form only after Morgan went down.



I'll go as far as to say that we might not have gotten to the NFC Championship game if it weren't for Crabtree. Ppl will read that and laugh, since he didn't produce in the playoffs. But the smart ones know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the catch in Seattle. We lose that game without that catch, barring a miracle. Losing that game takes us to the Superdome. We probably lose there. Got the picture?

First, Had Edwards been what he was supposed to be, and Morgan not gotten hurt, Crabtree would have been the #3 last season.

- As far as missing Camp and remaining the starter. That wont happen this year i promise that.

-As far as your last paragraph, Kyle Williams made the crack back block that sprung alex smith on the bootleg....If he all of a suden the reason we went to the championship game? 99% of that comes out of Harbaughs mouth is coach speak. Get used to it. The fact is crabtree was aweful all season long, untell the end of the season where he padded his #'s against NFC west opponents, then he disapeared again against top talent in the playoffs.

So if Edwards was legit and Morgan wasn't hurt, Crabs woulda been #3...excuse me if i missed something, but what evidence do you have for this? Is it just your opinion? that was a rhetorical question, obviously it's your opinion (that everyyyybody knows well around here, ya i gotcha)

call it coach speak if you'd like; you are sort of obligated to feel that way since Harbaugh's comments at face value severely undermine your position (i'm reluctant to even call it that, since you are apparently incapable of forming an argument to justify your opinion). Go back and watch the game, and then ask yourself how likely we would have won had he not caught that. It would have been 3rd and 17 with an incomplete pass. But go ahead and proceed with biased judgment. Either way, most fans disagree with you, so not all is wrong in the world. Crabtree was solid last year but not great, and most people are willing to see what he can do this year with the expectation that he will be in camp.


A very reasonable position, if you aren't a Crabtree fan, is to suspend judgment for one more year.

And about the Williams block...haha man, you seem to misunderstand a very simple point. Our victory in Seattle gave us a first round bye and home field advantage. Not too likely we would have beat the Saints in Superdome, though not impossible. But they were scoring 40+ at home. Anyways, I'm not literally saying that Crabtree, in and of himself, was the reason we played in the NFCCG. But he did have a significant role in the shaping the course of events leading to that. And one should take that for what it's worth, honor every fact.

Prove that he wouldnt have been #3? The fact is Edwards and Morgan were the starters week 1. Morgan was having a great season up until the point that he got hurt. Edwards was a flop. Your opinion that he was #1 is just as much assumption as mine, except well, he actually was #3 week one so....

You constantly say that everything i state is opinion and cant argue with proof, while attacking my character as a fan at the same time, yet then you come in and do the same thing. And actually i have presented several facts pointing to his regression last season.

we will have to agree to disagree.

All I wanted from you was an argument, as i enjoy a good debate, but you keep putting forth things that are either untrue or which obfuscate reality. The latter can be said about your comments on Morgan, which I'll come back to...I was not making an opinion about Crabtree's roster status, it was very well documented that he would have started had it not been for his injury. You can try proving me wrong but you will fail. When I say prove he would've been #3, I'm saying show me some article or something a coach said which lends itself to that. He didn't play week 2 against Dallas because he realized his body/foot weren't ready early on in the Seattle game.

I'm not attacking your character as a fan, but I care about my team enough to call out irrational comments made about them. I honestly would love for you to educate me, if you could, on his "regression" last season (not just playoffs). But about Morgan again, in what way/shape/form was he having a 'great' year before injury? If you carry out his stats from the 5 games he played, in a season he would have had 48 catches for about 700 yds and 3 tds.

Also, why do you not give any value to blocking, since that is vital in our Offensive system? You think AJ Jenkins, Manningham, and Williams will provide enough on that front to satisfy Harbaugh? If so you are out of your mind. They are small guys. Crabtree, if anything, turned into a very robust blocker last year. You ought to acknowledge this.
If egos were important I'd agree to disagree, for no one wants to be wrong. Putting egos aside, it seems unlikely you will come up with something to salvage your very weak position. Sorry to bombard you with reason, but when you make such a radical comment like that, saying Crabs will be #4 and overtaken by Williams, you gotta be ready to do the dirty work man, give some real substance instead of personal feelings and extreme speculation.

Originally posted by stevenking57:
I say no better than fourth.

You, sir, are wrong

Originally posted by BayAreaNinersFan:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by BayAreaNinersFan:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by BayAreaNinersFan:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by BayAreaNinersFan:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
The Future is This IMO.

#1 Jenkins
#2 Manningham
#3 Williams

But to answer the Poll. Crabtree will not be starting.

Williams won't even make the team. There's no way he gets past Moss, Crabtree, Manningham and Jenkins. Then, Ginn will make the roster as a return man. That's 5 receivers, there's no way they roll with 6 on the active roster even though Harbaugh said he could see it happening. That's coach talk - he doesn't want to let it be known that somebody is going to get the boot before they even start training camp. He provides no value on special teams so he won't take Ginn's spot.

As for Crabtree not starting, he's the best receiver on the roster unless Moss returns to form. The only way he doesn't start is if he's hurt.

Thats like, your opinion man.....

Crabtree wasnt even the best WR on the roster last year before Morgan got hurt. He is not the best WR on the roster now.

Like i said. Williams is going to suprise in camp.

so I'm assuming you believe Morgan was better than Crabtree?

I got you to admit you think Kyle Williams is better, so lets see how far this goes

Absolutely Morgan was, and would have continued to be the beter WR last season had Morgan not gotten hurt....Not sure where your going with this. My opinion on crabtree is largely known on these boards. He can have a good game againt the rams and pad his stats, then completely disapear when it counts. I have no love for the guy TBH. I hope im wrong and he has a great season, but i wouldnt hold my breath.

Williams is hated on purely because of the championship game. If he had not made the bonehead plays, this fan base would be touting him as the slot WR we have been looking for. Like i said, the guy had one less TD than Crabtree in way more limited action. He is gonna suprise and impress.

Well I think it is unfortunate your opinion is so well known around the boards (funny you say that with a degree of pride)..I have no desire to argue about this because it would be a very dull debate...I'll just point out a few things.
-For the third year in a row, Crabtree missed camp and yet still remained a starter. Morgan was the #3 going into 2011. So, your opinion seems at odds with the 49ers coaching staff. Couldn't Morgan at least take the spot of a guy who can't attend camp? One would think so, if he was truly better.
-Statistically, Morgan couldn't hold Crabtree's jockstrap, which sadly doesn't even say much. Why don't you look at the difference in their # of 1st down receptions, it isnt even close. not to mention catches and yards
-Harbaugh always praised Crabtree for his work ethic and overall commitment. Look at his comments on how Crabtree saved Christmas..
-it doesn't mean anything to say Morgan was better than Crabtree in 2011 before he got injured, since Crabtree missed a lot of time early on and started to get back into form only after Morgan went down.



I'll go as far as to say that we might not have gotten to the NFC Championship game if it weren't for Crabtree. Ppl will read that and laugh, since he didn't produce in the playoffs. But the smart ones know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the catch in Seattle. We lose that game without that catch, barring a miracle. Losing that game takes us to the Superdome. We probably lose there. Got the picture?

First, Had Edwards been what he was supposed to be, and Morgan not gotten hurt, Crabtree would have been the #3 last season.

- As far as missing Camp and remaining the starter. That wont happen this year i promise that.

-As far as your last paragraph, Kyle Williams made the crack back block that sprung alex smith on the bootleg....If he all of a suden the reason we went to the championship game? 99% of that comes out of Harbaughs mouth is coach speak. Get used to it. The fact is crabtree was aweful all season long, untell the end of the season where he padded his #'s against NFC west opponents, then he disapeared again against top talent in the playoffs.

So if Edwards was legit and Morgan wasn't hurt, Crabs woulda been #3...excuse me if i missed something, but what evidence do you have for this? Is it just your opinion? that was a rhetorical question, obviously it's your opinion (that everyyyybody knows well around here, ya i gotcha)

call it coach speak if you'd like; you are sort of obligated to feel that way since Harbaugh's comments at face value severely undermine your position (i'm reluctant to even call it that, since you are apparently incapable of forming an argument to justify your opinion). Go back and watch the game, and then ask yourself how likely we would have won had he not caught that. It would have been 3rd and 17 with an incomplete pass. But go ahead and proceed with biased judgment. Either way, most fans disagree with you, so not all is wrong in the world. Crabtree was solid last year but not great, and most people are willing to see what he can do this year with the expectation that he will be in camp.


A very reasonable position, if you aren't a Crabtree fan, is to suspend judgment for one more year.

And about the Williams block...haha man, you seem to misunderstand a very simple point. Our victory in Seattle gave us a first round bye and home field advantage. Not too likely we would have beat the Saints in Superdome, though not impossible. But they were scoring 40+ at home. Anyways, I'm not literally saying that Crabtree, in and of himself, was the reason we played in the NFCCG. But he did have a significant role in the shaping the course of events leading to that. And one should take that for what it's worth, honor every fact.

Prove that he wouldnt have been #3? The fact is Edwards and Morgan were the starters week 1. Morgan was having a great season up until the point that he got hurt. Edwards was a flop. Your opinion that he was #1 is just as much assumption as mine, except well, he actually was #3 week one so....

You constantly say that everything i state is opinion and cant argue with proof, while attacking my character as a fan at the same time, yet then you come in and do the same thing. And actually i have presented several facts pointing to his regression last season.

we will have to agree to disagree.

All I wanted from you was an argument, as i enjoy a good debate, but you keep putting forth things that are either untrue or which obfuscate reality. The latter can be said about your comments on Morgan, which I'll come back to...I was not making an opinion about Crabtree's roster status, it was very well documented that he would have started had it not been for his injury. You can try proving me wrong but you will fail. When I say prove he would've been #3, I'm saying show me some article or something a coach said which lends itself to that. He didn't play week 2 against Dallas because he realized his body/foot weren't ready early on in the Seattle game.

I'm not attacking your character as a fan, but I care about my team enough to call out irrational comments made about them. I honestly would love for you to educate me, if you could, on his "regression" last season (not just playoffs). But about Morgan again, in what way/shape/form was he having a 'great' year before injury? If you carry out his stats from the 5 games he played, in a season he would have had 48 catches for about 700 yds and 3 tds.

Also, why do you not give any value to blocking, since that is vital in our Offensive system? You think AJ Jenkins, Manningham, and Williams will provide enough on that front to satisfy Harbaugh? If so you are out of your mind. They are small guys. Crabtree, if anything, turned into a very robust blocker last year. You ought to acknowledge this.
If egos were important I'd agree to disagree, for no one wants to be wrong. Putting egos aside, it seems unlikely you will come up with something to salvage your very weak position. Sorry to bombard you with reason, but when you make such a radical comment like that, saying Crabs will be #4 and overtaken by Williams, you gotta be ready to do the dirty work man, give some real substance instead of personal feelings and extreme speculation.

I do agree that Crabtree has stepped up his blocking game. Have acknowledged that fact in several crabtree threads, Just not this one. He is a good blocker for a WR. But TBH Blocking from the WR position is so overrated on these boards and goes back to the singeltary mentality of useing WR's as blockers.

And actually you did attack my character as a fan. If you go and check any pf my posts reagrding other players you will see generally i take a levelheaded unbiased rational aproach to my niners fandom. Personally i feel that i am being honest to myself and what i see out of Crabtree. Dont feel that my biases are effecting my opinions, but i guess that could be the case.

I have posted several times about why i think crabtree has regressed in this thread alone providing stats. He had a lower average, Less TD's which 3 of 4 came against the rams, and his numbers against talented teams were garbage. Alot of people see his stats as coming on at the end of the season. I see them as padded due to weak NFC west competion. I feel this way due to his disapearance once again against top talent in the playoffs.

Your comment about calling out Irrational comments shows me that you are more passionate about the argument than i am. Maybe your passion blinds you to some of his shortcomings.

If a Crabtree falls in a forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by BayAreaNinersFan:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by BayAreaNinersFan:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by BayAreaNinersFan:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by BayAreaNinersFan:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
The Future is This IMO.

#1 Jenkins
#2 Manningham
#3 Williams

But to answer the Poll. Crabtree will not be starting.

Williams won't even make the team. There's no way he gets past Moss, Crabtree, Manningham and Jenkins. Then, Ginn will make the roster as a return man. That's 5 receivers, there's no way they roll with 6 on the active roster even though Harbaugh said he could see it happening. That's coach talk - he doesn't want to let it be known that somebody is going to get the boot before they even start training camp. He provides no value on special teams so he won't take Ginn's spot.

As for Crabtree not starting, he's the best receiver on the roster unless Moss returns to form. The only way he doesn't start is if he's hurt.

Thats like, your opinion man.....

Crabtree wasnt even the best WR on the roster last year before Morgan got hurt. He is not the best WR on the roster now.

Like i said. Williams is going to suprise in camp.

so I'm assuming you believe Morgan was better than Crabtree?

I got you to admit you think Kyle Williams is better, so lets see how far this goes

Absolutely Morgan was, and would have continued to be the beter WR last season had Morgan not gotten hurt....Not sure where your going with this. My opinion on crabtree is largely known on these boards. He can have a good game againt the rams and pad his stats, then completely disapear when it counts. I have no love for the guy TBH. I hope im wrong and he has a great season, but i wouldnt hold my breath.

Williams is hated on purely because of the championship game. If he had not made the bonehead plays, this fan base would be touting him as the slot WR we have been looking for. Like i said, the guy had one less TD than Crabtree in way more limited action. He is gonna suprise and impress.

Well I think it is unfortunate your opinion is so well known around the boards (funny you say that with a degree of pride)..I have no desire to argue about this because it would be a very dull debate...I'll just point out a few things.
-For the third year in a row, Crabtree missed camp and yet still remained a starter. Morgan was the #3 going into 2011. So, your opinion seems at odds with the 49ers coaching staff. Couldn't Morgan at least take the spot of a guy who can't attend camp? One would think so, if he was truly better.
-Statistically, Morgan couldn't hold Crabtree's jockstrap, which sadly doesn't even say much. Why don't you look at the difference in their # of 1st down receptions, it isnt even close. not to mention catches and yards
-Harbaugh always praised Crabtree for his work ethic and overall commitment. Look at his comments on how Crabtree saved Christmas..
-it doesn't mean anything to say Morgan was better than Crabtree in 2011 before he got injured, since Crabtree missed a lot of time early on and started to get back into form only after Morgan went down.



I'll go as far as to say that we might not have gotten to the NFC Championship game if it weren't for Crabtree. Ppl will read that and laugh, since he didn't produce in the playoffs. But the smart ones know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the catch in Seattle. We lose that game without that catch, barring a miracle. Losing that game takes us to the Superdome. We probably lose there. Got the picture?

First, Had Edwards been what he was supposed to be, and Morgan not gotten hurt, Crabtree would have been the #3 last season.

- As far as missing Camp and remaining the starter. That wont happen this year i promise that.

-As far as your last paragraph, Kyle Williams made the crack back block that sprung alex smith on the bootleg....If he all of a suden the reason we went to the championship game? 99% of that comes out of Harbaughs mouth is coach speak. Get used to it. The fact is crabtree was aweful all season long, untell the end of the season where he padded his #'s against NFC west opponents, then he disapeared again against top talent in the playoffs.

So if Edwards was legit and Morgan wasn't hurt, Crabs woulda been #3...excuse me if i missed something, but what evidence do you have for this? Is it just your opinion? that was a rhetorical question, obviously it's your opinion (that everyyyybody knows well around here, ya i gotcha)

call it coach speak if you'd like; you are sort of obligated to feel that way since Harbaugh's comments at face value severely undermine your position (i'm reluctant to even call it that, since you are apparently incapable of forming an argument to justify your opinion). Go back and watch the game, and then ask yourself how likely we would have won had he not caught that. It would have been 3rd and 17 with an incomplete pass. But go ahead and proceed with biased judgment. Either way, most fans disagree with you, so not all is wrong in the world. Crabtree was solid last year but not great, and most people are willing to see what he can do this year with the expectation that he will be in camp.


A very reasonable position, if you aren't a Crabtree fan, is to suspend judgment for one more year.

And about the Williams block...haha man, you seem to misunderstand a very simple point. Our victory in Seattle gave us a first round bye and home field advantage. Not too likely we would have beat the Saints in Superdome, though not impossible. But they were scoring 40+ at home. Anyways, I'm not literally saying that Crabtree, in and of himself, was the reason we played in the NFCCG. But he did have a significant role in the shaping the course of events leading to that. And one should take that for what it's worth, honor every fact.

Prove that he wouldnt have been #3? The fact is Edwards and Morgan were the starters week 1. Morgan was having a great season up until the point that he got hurt. Edwards was a flop. Your opinion that he was #1 is just as much assumption as mine, except well, he actually was #3 week one so....

You constantly say that everything i state is opinion and cant argue with proof, while attacking my character as a fan at the same time, yet then you come in and do the same thing. And actually i have presented several facts pointing to his regression last season.

we will have to agree to disagree.

All I wanted from you was an argument, as i enjoy a good debate, but you keep putting forth things that are either untrue or which obfuscate reality. The latter can be said about your comments on Morgan, which I'll come back to...I was not making an opinion about Crabtree's roster status, it was very well documented that he would have started had it not been for his injury. You can try proving me wrong but you will fail. When I say prove he would've been #3, I'm saying show me some article or something a coach said which lends itself to that. He didn't play week 2 against Dallas because he realized his body/foot weren't ready early on in the Seattle game.

I'm not attacking your character as a fan, but I care about my team enough to call out irrational comments made about them. I honestly would love for you to educate me, if you could, on his "regression" last season (not just playoffs). But about Morgan again, in what way/shape/form was he having a 'great' year before injury? If you carry out his stats from the 5 games he played, in a season he would have had 48 catches for about 700 yds and 3 tds.

Also, why do you not give any value to blocking, since that is vital in our Offensive system? You think AJ Jenkins, Manningham, and Williams will provide enough on that front to satisfy Harbaugh? If so you are out of your mind. They are small guys. Crabtree, if anything, turned into a very robust blocker last year. You ought to acknowledge this.
If egos were important I'd agree to disagree, for no one wants to be wrong. Putting egos aside, it seems unlikely you will come up with something to salvage your very weak position. Sorry to bombard you with reason, but when you make such a radical comment like that, saying Crabs will be #4 and overtaken by Williams, you gotta be ready to do the dirty work man, give some real substance instead of personal feelings and extreme speculation.

I do agree that Crabtree has stepped up his blocking game. Have acknowledged that fact in several crabtree threads, Just not this one. He is a good blocker for a WR. But TBH Blocking from the WR position is so overrated on these boards and goes back to the singeltary mentality of useing WR's as blockers.

And actually you did attack my character as a fan. If you go and check any pf my posts reagrding other players you will see generally i take a levelheaded unbiased rational aproach to my niners fandom. Personally i feel that i am being honest to myself and what i see out of Crabtree. Dont feel that my biases are effecting my opinions, but i guess that could be the case.

I have posted several times about why i think crabtree has regressed in this thread alone providing stats. He had a lower average, Less TD's which 3 of 4 came against the rams, and his numbers against talented teams were garbage. Alot of people see his stats as coming on at the end of the season. I see them as padded due to weak NFC west competion. I feel this way due to his disapearance once again against top talent in the playoffs.

Your comment about calling out Irrational comments shows me that you are more passionate about the argument than i am. Maybe your passion blinds you to some of his shortcomings.

his avg and tds went down, yet catches and yards increased. Vernon Davis' avg went down by 5 yards (significant drop) and had less tds as well, so by your reasoning he also regressed. The more likely explanation for these diminished stats is that we ran a ball control offense limiting throws down the field. You cannot accurately break down a player's game solely through those two stats. Alex Smith threw only 17 tds last year and this was largely because Harbaugh wanted to avoid turnovers especially in the red zone area; our D was good enough let David Akers do most of the scoring.


Again, why not allow one more year, a full offseason with Harbaugh, before making a definitive judgment.

And yes, I am passionate about this matter, as it is a 49er matter and a football matter first and foremost. I like these things. I think them through, perhaps spend too much time doing so. Passion generally drives people to delve into something, to see it in all sides and really understand it. There wouldn't be intelligent discussion if the people involved lacked a passion in the matter. So I hope for your sake as a fan who presumably likes to discuss, you find the passion.That I like Crabtree does not blind me to the fact he may never be a #1, but I think most Niner fans would agree he could be a solid #2 and perhaps a good #3 at worst.A #4 behind K Williams is just bizarre speculation.

But if passion is blinding me from seeing Crabtree is a #4 on our team, then what is guiding you to project Kyle Williams beating him out? Cool , level-headed fandom?