2011 Alex Smith vs. 1995 Troy Aikman

Phil Simms and jim mcmahon were called stars not game managers.....check their numbers.....these niners are like those teams minus the super bowl wins...

Originally posted by mella8:
I disagree. The '95 Cowboys were 95% Emmitt Smith, and 5% everyone else. Aikman had no role other than to keep the TO ratio low.

Gore is a great RB, but he's no Emmitt Smith. Nor does our "rushing by commitee" scheme compare anywhere near Emmitt's accomplishment that year. If we want to win the SB, Alex will have to be the leader of this team.

luckily for us Alex IS the leader of this team. i dont think theres anyone on the team thats doubting him. hes playin lights out. cant argue with 16-4 in his last 20 games and he looks like hes getting better in every game

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Originally posted by skeetskeet:
And Crabtree reminds me of Irvin..

Big physical possession WR. Not to fast. Not overly powerful.


I still don't get why Irvin is the 'playmaker' guy only has 65 career TDs and went double digit TDs once in his career.

Irvin was overrated, Aikman was not though.

Michael Irvin got the The Playmaker" label at the U. It was deserved and he was a legitimately the 2nd best receiver in the NFL for a few seasons. Alvin Harper got a huge contract in Tampa because of Irvin lol.

Originally posted by GoforJimmy:
Agreed, Skeet. Although it's funny that they didn't refer to Aikman as a "game manager" or "weakness". He was always publicized as a threat, and a prime time player.

I've always thought Aikman was vastly overrated. That being said, the game isn't quite the same now as it was then. The rules have made it easy for QB's to light it up these days. In this day and age, Aikman's numbers you referred to would not make anyone consider him elite or anything more than a game manager. Why? Because he was riding the run game and defense to a championship, the same way Alex almost did last year. It wasn't because of Aikman that the Cowboys won those Super Bowls. He played his role and helped his team the same way Alex did last year. However, if you put Aikman in today's QB-friendly league, his numbers would probably be much greater than they were back then because it's just easier to get it done now. You can't touch the QB or the WRs anymore or you get a penalty and a fine.

I disagree with this comparison. I've watched make Aikman make accurate deep throws to Michael Irvin.

You rarely see that with Alex.

Furthermore, there's a reason why Michael Irvin is a HOF right? I think Aikman played a good role in that. How many WRs has Alex put in the Hall?

But if this comparison makes you feel better, so be it.

Originally posted by verb1der:
I disagree with this comparison. I've watched make Aikman make accurate deep throws to Michael Irvin.

You rarely see that with Alex.

Furthermore, there's a reason why Michael Irvin is a HOF right? I think Aikman played a good role in that. How many WRs has Alex put in the Hall?

But if this comparison makes you feel better, so be it.

RE:Irvin and Aikman. One complimented the other. Aikman had a strong arm and Irvin (and especially Harper) had burner speed. Harper's deep speed enabled Irvin to run free on the mid-range routes and that led to safeties having to pick which one to double. They couldn't double them both. That allowed Aikman easy wide open targets.

Even now, the 49ers do not have anything like that. Crabtree has shown signs of being able to do some of the things Irvin did (no small compliment) but lacking a true Harperesque deep threat, Crabtree does not have the freedom Irvin enjoyed. Smith never had that combination. Only this season was Crabtree beginning to show the moves on a consistent basis that Irvin ran. Without a deep threat, Crabtree has to work a lot harder than Irvin did to get open. Crab and Kaep will be much more effective next season if Baalke can find the deep threat every good offense needs.

Aikman had one of the greatest Olines ever and better targets to throw to, so there's no way to really compare them. Plus coaching makes a huge difference. Look at how Norv turned Dallas around...

Turner was the offensive coordinator with the Dallas Cowboys on Jimmy Johnson's staff when Dallas won back-to-back Super Bowls in 1992 and 1993. Turner got much of the credit for not only their success, but for helping shape quarterback Troy Aikman into a Hall of Fame player. Upon arriving in Dallas, Turner took over an offense that was dead last in the NFL in total yards averaging 255.1 yds/gm and scoring 15.2 pts/gm, his impact was immediate. In 1991 the offense jumped to 9th in total yds with 318.8/gm and scoring 21.4/gm, and 4th in 1992 (350.4 yds/gm, 25.6 pts/gm) and 4th in 1993 (350.9 yds/gm, 23.5 pts/gm). Emmitt Smith led the NFL in rushing all 3 yrs under Norv Turner, winning Super Bowl XXVIII MVP. No team before in the Super Bowl era had won with the leading rusher before Emmitt Smith under Turner in 1992 and 1993. The Dallas Cowboys had a record of 21–1 in the regular season and 5–0 in the postseason when Emmitt Smith ran for 100+ yards in a game under Turner's guidance of the offense from 1991–1993, usually gaining the lead early with big plays from Aikman to Irvin and Novacek then finishing off drives with Smith and that overpowering front line. Troy Aikman had a record of 7–18 as a starter before Turner's arrival, then 31–11 in the regular season and 6–0 as a starter in the post season winning Super Bowl XXVII MVP. Michael Irvin never finished lower than 2nd in the NFL in receiving yards under Norv. Overall the Cowboys record was 42–13 with 3 playoff appearances, winning 2 NFC East Division Titles (1992, 1993), 2 NFC Championships (1992, 1993), 3 Rushing Titles (1991–1993 Emmitt Smith), 1 League MVP (1993 Emmitt Smith), and 2 Super Bowls (XXVII, XXVVIII), in Turner's years in Dallas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norv_Turner#Dallas_Cowboys

Why even bump this?

Originally posted by SFrush:

Why even bump this?

Not bumped. The Webzone matrix was messed with last night. Front page of NT are littered with old threads.

- 98

Aikman and Alex Smith is not a comparison. Aikman was a probowler and HOFer. Alex is not.

/thread.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I disagree with this comparison. I've watched make Aikman make accurate deep throws to Michael Irvin.

You rarely see that with Alex.

Furthermore, there's a reason why Michael Irvin is a HOF right? I think Aikman played a good role in that. How many WRs has Alex put in the Hall?

But if this comparison makes you feel better, so be it.

RE:Irvin and Aikman. One complimented the other. Aikman had a strong arm and Irvin (and especially Harper) had burner speed. Harper's deep speed enabled Irvin to run free on the mid-range routes and that led to safeties having to pick which one to double. They couldn't double them both. That allowed Aikman easy wide open targets.

Even now, the 49ers do not have anything like that. Crabtree has shown signs of being able to do some of the things Irvin did (no small compliment) but lacking a true Harperesque deep threat, Crabtree does not have the freedom Irvin enjoyed. Smith never had that combination. Only this season was Crabtree beginning to show the moves on a consistent basis that Irvin ran. Without a deep threat, Crabtree has to work a lot harder than Irvin did to get open. Crab and Kaep will be much more effective next season if Baalke can find the deep threat every good offense needs.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I disagree with this comparison. I've watched make Aikman make accurate deep throws to Michael Irvin.

You rarely see that with Alex.

Furthermore, there's a reason why Michael Irvin is a HOF right? I think Aikman played a good role in that. How many WRs has Alex put in the Hall?

But if this comparison makes you feel better, so be it.

RE:Irvin and Aikman. One complimented the other. Aikman had a strong arm and Irvin (and especially Harper) had burner speed. Harper's deep speed enabled Irvin to run free on the mid-range routes and that led to safeties having to pick which one to double. They couldn't double them both. That allowed Aikman easy wide open targets.

Even now, the 49ers do not have anything like that. Crabtree has shown signs of being able to do some of the things Irvin did (no small compliment) but lacking a true Harperesque deep threat, Crabtree does not have the freedom Irvin enjoyed. Smith never had that combination. Only this season was Crabtree beginning to show the moves on a consistent basis that Irvin ran. Without a deep threat, Crabtree has to work a lot harder than Irvin did to get open. Crab and Kaep will be much more effective next season if Baalke can find the deep threat every good offense needs.

Yeah I agree the team was different. But I'm specifically speaking of the "style of play" because of Aikman's deep ball accuracy". Aikman possessed the attribute, Alex did not.

Just watch Aikman highlights, his style of QB'ing is not even remotely close to Alex Smith's. So I have no clue why people think the two are similar unless they're strictly comparing "stats".

Only in NT will you read this comparison, c'mon yall.

Alex had deep ball accuracy until his shoulder injury. So don't say never. He still has a pretty good deep ball...he just doesn't throw it often. It's still not as good as it was...but if you doubt it, check the stats.

Aikman had a better arm. Could make more of the throws than Alex can. Yes, the similarity is very much there. The biggest difference I think is Alex is a hard luck story and Troy is over-hyped and WAY overrated.

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I disagree with this comparison. I've watched make Aikman make accurate deep throws to Michael Irvin.

You rarely see that with Alex.

Furthermore, there's a reason why Michael Irvin is a HOF right? I think Aikman played a good role in that. How many WRs has Alex put in the Hall?

But if this comparison makes you feel better, so be it.

RE:Irvin and Aikman. One complimented the other. Aikman had a strong arm and Irvin (and especially Harper) had burner speed. Harper's deep speed enabled Irvin to run free on the mid-range routes and that led to safeties having to pick which one to double. They couldn't double them both. That allowed Aikman easy wide open targets.

Even now, the 49ers do not have anything like that. Crabtree has shown signs of being able to do some of the things Irvin did (no small compliment) but lacking a true Harperesque deep threat, Crabtree does not have the freedom Irvin enjoyed. Smith never had that combination. Only this season was Crabtree beginning to show the moves on a consistent basis that Irvin ran. Without a deep threat, Crabtree has to work a lot harder than Irvin did to get open. Crab and Kaep will be much more effective next season if Baalke can find the deep threat every good offense needs.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I disagree with this comparison. I've watched make Aikman make accurate deep throws to Michael Irvin.

You rarely see that with Alex.

Furthermore, there's a reason why Michael Irvin is a HOF right? I think Aikman played a good role in that. How many WRs has Alex put in the Hall?

But if this comparison makes you feel better, so be it.

RE:Irvin and Aikman. One complimented the other. Aikman had a strong arm and Irvin (and especially Harper) had burner speed. Harper's deep speed enabled Irvin to run free on the mid-range routes and that led to safeties having to pick which one to double. They couldn't double them both. That allowed Aikman easy wide open targets.

Even now, the 49ers do not have anything like that. Crabtree has shown signs of being able to do some of the things Irvin did (no small compliment) but lacking a true Harperesque deep threat, Crabtree does not have the freedom Irvin enjoyed. Smith never had that combination. Only this season was Crabtree beginning to show the moves on a consistent basis that Irvin ran. Without a deep threat, Crabtree has to work a lot harder than Irvin did to get open. Crab and Kaep will be much more effective next season if Baalke can find the deep threat every good offense needs.

Yeah I agree the team was different. But I'm specifically speaking of the "style of play" because of Aikman's deep ball accuracy". Aikman possessed the attribute, Alex did not.

Just watch Aikman highlights, his style of QB'ing is not even remotely close to Alex Smith's. So I have no clue why people think the two are similar unless they're strictly comparing "stats".

Only in NT will you read this comparison, c'mon yall.

I think the view point is more that Aikman was at his best a game manager playing with an elite supporting cast. That is my opinion anyway.

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I disagree with this comparison. I've watched make Aikman make accurate deep throws to Michael Irvin.

You rarely see that with Alex.

Furthermore, there's a reason why Michael Irvin is a HOF right? I think Aikman played a good role in that. How many WRs has Alex put in the Hall?

But if this comparison makes you feel better, so be it.

RE:Irvin and Aikman. One complimented the other. Aikman had a strong arm and Irvin (and especially Harper) had burner speed. Harper's deep speed enabled Irvin to run free on the mid-range routes and that led to safeties having to pick which one to double. They couldn't double them both. That allowed Aikman easy wide open targets.

Even now, the 49ers do not have anything like that. Crabtree has shown signs of being able to do some of the things Irvin did (no small compliment) but lacking a true Harperesque deep threat, Crabtree does not have the freedom Irvin enjoyed. Smith never had that combination. Only this season was Crabtree beginning to show the moves on a consistent basis that Irvin ran. Without a deep threat, Crabtree has to work a lot harder than Irvin did to get open. Crab and Kaep will be much more effective next season if Baalke can find the deep threat every good offense needs.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I disagree with this comparison. I've watched make Aikman make accurate deep throws to Michael Irvin.

You rarely see that with Alex.

Furthermore, there's a reason why Michael Irvin is a HOF right? I think Aikman played a good role in that. How many WRs has Alex put in the Hall?

But if this comparison makes you feel better, so be it.

RE:Irvin and Aikman. One complimented the other. Aikman had a strong arm and Irvin (and especially Harper) had burner speed. Harper's deep speed enabled Irvin to run free on the mid-range routes and that led to safeties having to pick which one to double. They couldn't double them both. That allowed Aikman easy wide open targets.

Even now, the 49ers do not have anything like that. Crabtree has shown signs of being able to do some of the things Irvin did (no small compliment) but lacking a true Harperesque deep threat, Crabtree does not have the freedom Irvin enjoyed. Smith never had that combination. Only this season was Crabtree beginning to show the moves on a consistent basis that Irvin ran. Without a deep threat, Crabtree has to work a lot harder than Irvin did to get open. Crab and Kaep will be much more effective next season if Baalke can find the deep threat every good offense needs.

Yeah I agree the team was different. But I'm specifically speaking of the "style of play" because of Aikman's deep ball accuracy". Aikman possessed the attribute, Alex did not.

Just watch Aikman highlights, his style of QB'ing is not even remotely close to Alex Smith's. So I have no clue why people think the two are similar unless they're strictly comparing "stats".

Only in NT will you read this comparison, c'mon yall.

The point being that each position needs the other in order to reach max potential. Aikman had deep threats to go with his strong arm. In games when Harper or Irvin were not able to play, the passing game became much shorter. Aikman, without Irvin, would not have been HOF. Aikman, perhaps more than just about any QB in recent times, was a true product of the system. He had arguably the best OL ever (some say the current 49ers OL may achieve similar status), one of the top 5 RBs of all time, AND quality and depth in the WR corp and a very good TE. Even I could have completed a few passes in that setup. Still, Aikman deserves credit for taking advantage of the situation.

We don't know that Alex Smith cannot throw the long ball. He never had a true deep threat anywhere near the level of those Dallas receivers. He had to make due with a bunch of re-treads and has beens and a highly regarded college receiver who never showed for TC. Even now the 49ers do not have that deep threat. The very fact that Baalke spent the #1 pick on a fast (?) wide receiver AND signed Moss and Manningham is proof positive that management recognized the weakness in this offense. Yes, Crabtree has improved as the season has gone along but he still is not the threat that Irvin was in Dallas. Not even close.