ESPN Ranking NFL starting quarterbacks (Alex Smith #28)

Young2Rice, we are not in disagreement. Smith contributed to several losses. That's not the argument. We already have established -- from a multitude of people piling on talking about Smith's obvious failures -- that Alex had his part. What we're trying to get across is the bigger picture here that people seemingly ignore. Which is the fact that just as much as you could blame Smith, you could blame a plethora of others -- from players to coaches.

Who knows what would've happened if Smith had started the Tampa, Green Bay, and St. Louis games. Troy Smith was horrendous in all three. Losing 21-0 to the Bucs (at home in SF), losing 34-16 to GB, and the being benched in STL for Alex. Obviously Smith did nothing to lose any of those games. The team failed for a variety of reasons that go almost completely ignored.

Have no problem with anyone saying Alex, the coaches, and etc. all contributed to losses. That's the truth. But it doesn't change the fact that as mediocre as he played in some games -- he did well enough to win, if it hadn't been for someone else making a critical mistake at a terrible time. I think they should just share the blame. That's all.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Whenever I compare Alex Smith to Tim Couch, people pretend like they didn't read it. Find me one other #1 pick QB with stats closer to Alex's, and then explain yourself out of the conundrum it presents. (you'll also have to explain why, in Couch's case, it was his ineptitude that caused the problems while in Alex's case, it was the ineptitude of everyone around him that caused the problems). Somehow Alex is the teflon kid. Nothing sticks to him. He needs to be in politics, not football.

you never respond to any statistical arguments, so why should anyone respond to your claims? If it makes you happy, Yes, Alex Smith and Tim Couch have similar numbers. So? That doesn't refute anything posters like myself or OTC have said, in terms of analyzing the team context of Alex Smith's personal failures. Tim Couch failed on an expansion team; the 2005 49ers were just as un-talented.

I laid out the stats comparing Smith's 2006 season to Bradford's rookie season in response to a post of yours praising Bradford's greatness and criticizing Smith's below-average year (in 2006). I'll add to that Smith's QBR that season was 74.8 and Bradford's last season was 76.5.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Whenever I compare Alex Smith to Tim Couch, people pretend like they didn't read it. Find me one other #1 pick QB with stats closer to Alex's, and then explain yourself out of the conundrum it presents. (you'll also have to explain why, in Couch's case, it was his ineptitude that caused the problems while in Alex's case, it was the ineptitude of everyone around him that caused the problems). Somehow Alex is the teflon kid. Nothing sticks to him. He needs to be in politics, not football.

you never respond to any statistical arguments, so why should anyone respond to your claims? If it makes you happy, Yes, Alex Smith and Tim Couch have similar numbers. So? That doesn't refute anything posters like myself or OTC have said, in terms of analyzing the team context of Alex Smith's personal failures. Tim Couch failed on an expansion team; the 2005 49ers were just as un-talented.

I laid out the stats comparing Smith's 2006 season to Bradford's rookie season in response to a post of yours praising Bradford's greatness and criticizing Smith's below-average year (in 2006). I'll add to that Smith's QBR that season was 74.8 and Bradford's last season was 76.5.

you should compare Smith's rookie season to Bradford's. Also, we were miles better last year than the Rams, the worst team in football the year prior, were. There are many other mitigating circumstances, except they all work against Bradford and not against Alex.

Alex needs to be sent to Libya because only he can overthrow Ghaddaffi.

If Bradford succeeds good for him. I wish him well


Please don't do that. He has 60 million guaranteed, I hope be blows his shoulder. Then he can retire, play golf, and leave the Niners alone.

Originally posted by Shaj:
Whenever I compare Alex Smith to Tim Couch, people pretend like they didn't read it. Find me one other #1 pick QB with stats closer to Alex's, and then explain yourself out of the conundrum it presents. (you'll also have to explain why, in Couch's case, it was his ineptitude that caused the problems while in Alex's case, it was the ineptitude of everyone around him that caused the problems). Somehow Alex is the teflon kid. Nothing sticks to him. He needs to be in politics, not football.

The Browns haven't quite recovered from Tim and Brady. I wouldn't use that organization as a comparison. They had one playoff run with a QB that made a probowl based on deep balls to our current (soon to be) number 1 receiver (Edwards).

Originally posted by Shaj:
you should compare Smith's rookie season to Bradford's. Also, we were miles better last year than the Rams, the worst team in football the year prior, were. There are many other mitigating circumstances, except they all work against Bradford and not against Alex.

Alex needs to be sent to Libya because only he can overthrow Ghaddaffi.

the original response was to your hypocrisy in praising Bradford's greatness while ridiculing Smiths' "below average" second year when they had very similar stats. As I said in that post, which you likely didn't read, Bradford as a 23 year old rookie absolutely had the better statistical year over 22 year old Smith's 2nd season; my point was, again, to highlight your hypocrisy.

I brought it up again because you complained that no one responded to your "Alex Smith is Tim Couch" comparison and because you seem to think that no other #1 pick puts up below average stats except for Alex Smith.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:
you should compare Smith's rookie season to Bradford's. Also, we were miles better last year than the Rams, the worst team in football the year prior, were. There are many other mitigating circumstances, except they all work against Bradford and not against Alex.

Alex needs to be sent to Libya because only he can overthrow Ghaddaffi.

the original response was to your hypocrisy in praising Bradford's greatness while ridiculing Smiths' "below average" second year when they had very similar stats. As I said in that post, which you likely didn't read, Bradford as a 23 year old rookie absolutely had the better statistical year over 22 year old Smith's 2nd season; my point was, again, to highlight your hypocrisy.

I brought it up again because you complained that no one responded to your "Alex Smith is Tim Couch" comparison and because you seem to think that no other #1 pick puts up below average stats except for Alex Smith.

I would concede that Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf were worse, much worse. No other modern day #1 overall draft picks that were QBs come to mind that have had worse careers. And Ryan Leaf wasn't taken #1, but close enough. I'd throw in the guy that Seattle chose years ago at #3 I think as well, can't remember his name... Marinovich, something like that.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:



If Bradford went 3 - 13 in his first year, everyone would have chalked it up to him going to the worst team in the NFL, most of all us, if we were Rams fans. You guys don't get it. When Smith is deserving of credit, you heap it on. When he f's up, it's not his fault. Everybody else is to blame.

The guy is likeable, hard working, dedicated, team above money and himself, intellectual, and athletic. However, he does not have accuracy, instinct, or leadership, and those are three fatal flaws for playing the QB position in the NFL. And because of all of his positive traits, people somehow overlook the obvious: He can't win a game of checkers, much less professional football.

You are confusing me with his wife. I have given Smith very little praise, but by the same token I don't like unkind and ridiculous over criticism. It's one thing to say Smith is not consistent, opposed to Smith is to blame for the coaches being fired, losing every year, receivers not catching the ball; and now your assertion that he is so bad he makes his OLinemen miss their blocks. And, once again, he is the 9ers QB this year and you can either hope he succeeds or hope he fails.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Shaj:



If Bradford went 3 - 13 in his first year, everyone would have chalked it up to him going to the worst team in the NFL, most of all us, if we were Rams fans. You guys don't get it. When Smith is deserving of credit, you heap it on. When he f's up, it's not his fault. Everybody else is to blame.

The guy is likeable, hard working, dedicated, team above money and himself, intellectual, and athletic. However, he does not have accuracy, instinct, or leadership, and those are three fatal flaws for playing the QB position in the NFL. And because of all of his positive traits, people somehow overlook the obvious: He can't win a game of checkers, much less professional football.

You are confusing me with his wife. I have given Smith very little praise, but by the same token I don't like unkind and ridiculous over criticism. It's one thing to say Smith is not consistent, opposed to Smith is to blame for the coaches being fired, losing every year, receivers not catching the ball; and now your assertion that he is so bad he makes his OLinemen miss their blocks. And, once again, he is the 9ers QB this year and you can either hope he succeeds or hope he fails.

I have also been a non-Smith supporter(to put it nicely). However he does deserve a lil credit for playing well in the Raider game, and against the Bolts! and as far as hoping he (A)succeeds or (B)fails...I go with option(A), if he fails that means our young rook gets thrown to the wolves. The time to groom kap is now! and if Alex continues to play well, I personally will support the man to the fullest extent, which I beleive to be my duty as a die-hard 49er fan!!!!

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:
you should compare Smith's rookie season to Bradford's. Also, we were miles better last year than the Rams, the worst team in football the year prior, were. There are many other mitigating circumstances, except they all work against Bradford and not against Alex.

Alex needs to be sent to Libya because only he can overthrow Ghaddaffi.

the original response was to your hypocrisy in praising Bradford's greatness while ridiculing Smiths' "below average" second year when they had very similar stats. As I said in that post, which you likely didn't read, Bradford as a 23 year old rookie absolutely had the better statistical year over 22 year old Smith's 2nd season; my point was, again, to highlight your hypocrisy.

I brought it up again because you complained that no one responded to your "Alex Smith is Tim Couch" comparison and because you seem to think that no other #1 pick puts up below average stats except for Alex Smith.

I would concede that Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf were worse, much worse. No other modern day #1 overall draft picks that were QBs come to mind that have had worse careers. And Ryan Leaf wasn't taken #1, but close enough. I'd throw in the guy that Seattle chose years ago at #3 I think as well, can't remember his name... Marinovich, something like that.

So I says to Mabel, I says--

Originally posted by Shaj:
Alex needs to be sent to Libya because only he can overthrow Ghaddaffi.

Ghaddaffi has already been ousted. Sorry to ruin the cool joke

Originally posted by Nuns:
If Bradford succeeds good for him. I wish him well


Please don't do that. He has 60 million guaranteed, I hope be blows his shoulder. Then he can retire, play golf, and leave the Niners alone.

Naw, said I wish him well, not beating the 9ers. He can beat up Seattle and Arizona all he wants. It might be nice to have a rival worthy of the name.

I best thing that could possibly happen for the Niners would be for Smith to finally fulfill his potential and shut people the hell up. I'm hoping for the best. If he pulls it off, it's going to be hilarious to see people jumping on the bandwagon after slamming him mercilessly for so many years. Don't think it couldn't happen.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Young2Rice, we are not in disagreement. Smith contributed to several losses. That's not the argument. We already have established -- from a multitude of people piling on talking about Smith's obvious failures -- that Alex had his part. What we're trying to get across is the bigger picture here that people seemingly ignore. Which is the fact that just as much as you could blame Smith, you could blame a plethora of others -- from players to coaches.

Who knows what would've happened if Smith had started the Tampa, Green Bay, and St. Louis games. Troy Smith was horrendous in all three. Losing 21-0 to the Bucs (at home in SF), losing 34-16 to GB, and the being benched in STL for Alex. Obviously Smith did nothing to lose any of those games. The team failed for a variety of reasons that go almost completely ignored.

Have no problem with anyone saying Alex, the coaches, and etc. all contributed to losses. That's the truth. But it doesn't change the fact that as mediocre as he played in some games -- he did well enough to win, if it hadn't been for someone else making a critical mistake at a terrible time. I think they should just share the blame. That's all.

How can you do well enough to win while making a fatal mistakes almost every game? Smith is the king of inopportune mistakes. Its not like Smith goes in there with blazing numbers to help us win.

My point is that players will make mistakes like Clements, Adams, and Baas did. But do those players make terrble mistakes each and every week? No. But Smith pretty much does. He contributes to losses way more then he helps (Two 300 games only).

And we don't know what Smith would be like against the Bucs or the PAckers but in all likeliness, as you can see from the past, Smith fails against teams with winning records.

Just because several other players make mistakes each game doesn't excuse the horrendous mistakes he makes almost every game. That's like saying Kwame Harris' stupid mistakes every game should be shared by the team. We should give em a call to apologize for putting too much blame on him. Its not just his fault he contributed to a loss every game...so did Gore fumbling, VD drops Smith turnovers etc...VD and Gore are still on the team but Harris is gone like Smith should be.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Young2Rice, we are not in disagreement. Smith contributed to several losses. That's not the argument. We already have established -- from a multitude of people piling on talking about Smith's obvious failures -- that Alex had his part. What we're trying to get across is the bigger picture here that people seemingly ignore. Which is the fact that just as much as you could blame Smith, you could blame a plethora of others -- from players to coaches.

Who knows what would've happened if Smith had started the Tampa, Green Bay, and St. Louis games. Troy Smith was horrendous in all three. Losing 21-0 to the Bucs (at home in SF), losing 34-16 to GB, and the being benched in STL for Alex. Obviously Smith did nothing to lose any of those games. The team failed for a variety of reasons that go almost completely ignored.

Have no problem with anyone saying Alex, the coaches, and etc. all contributed to losses. That's the truth. But it doesn't change the fact that as mediocre as he played in some games -- he did well enough to win,[/b] if it hadn't been for someone else making a critical mistake at a terrible time. I think they should just share the blame. That's all.

How can you do well enough to win while making a fatal mistakes almost every game? Smith is the king of inopportune mistakes. Its not like Smith goes in there with blazing numbers to help us win.

My point is that players will make mistakes like Clements, Adams, and Baas did. But do those players make terrble mistakes each and every week? No. But Smith pretty much does. He contributes to losses way more then he helps (Two 300 games only).

And we don't know what Smith would be like against the Bucs or the PAckers but in all likeliness, as you can see from the past, Smith fails against teams with winning records.

Just because several other players make mistakes each game doesn't excuse the horrendous mistakes he makes almost every game. That's like saying Kwame Harris' stupid mistakes every game should be shared by the team. We should give em a call to apologize for putting too much blame on him. Its not just his fault he contributed to a loss every game...so did Gore fumbling, VD drops Smith turnovers etc...VD and Gore are still on the team but Harris is gone like Smith should be.

You absolutely refuse to acknowledge what I'm saying, don't you? Look at the bolded. Despite us agreeing, it's like you just want to argue for the sake of arguing? What are you even arguing about? It's like you can't bear the thought of agreeing with me, haha. So you have to keep saying the same things. Man, seriously. Alex has definitely made mistakes at critical times, and so have other players. Not once have I excused Smith's mistakes. He deserves to be held fully responsible for his own mistakes, just as the others deserve to be held accountable for theirs. Clements was a MAJOR player in costing us the ATL games. Smith shouldn't be excused for his mistakes during the game, so why should Clements be excused for his? Simple fact is he coughed up a fumble with a minute to go that ultimately wound up leading to us losing the game. Smith didn't play well, but we had the lead, and Clements' mistake allowed Atlanta to take it away. There's plenty of blame to go around for these several specific losses. Period. Anyone saying otherwise -- or saying "It's all on Alex" doesn't have a clue.