the eating crow for FA

Why do people always mention some OL age when deciding weather he is still good or not. OL is the one position that seems to be a lot like wine in the fact they tend to get better with age. At 33 Goodwin is signed for three years and will probably play a couple years beyond that somewhere. Only Kickers and punters last longer than OL.

Yah, I guess I'll take a drum stick.

We still need a vet QB.

Originally posted by leakyfausett:
Why do people always mention some OL age when deciding weather he is still good or not. OL is the one position that seems to be a lot like wine in the fact they tend to get better with age. At 33 Goodwin is signed for three years and will probably play a couple years beyond that somewhere. Only Kickers and punters last longer than OL.

This. The number one players' attribute that regresses with age in the NFL is speed. O-Lineman don't need speed.

Baalke =

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Overrated signings. A lot of those guys are downgrades rather than upgrades. Some are way at the end.

How dare you try to take the attention off of MD!

Stick and move....stick and move....same old story.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Yah, I guess I'll take a drum stick.

We still need a vet QB.

We will get one when the cuts start happening.

I still want to know who thinks we have actually gotten better?

We have a WR who has motivation/legal issues who may or not be able to play when we need him most.

Otherwise, we have added players on the same level (more or less) as who they replaced.

We haven't gotten worse, which a week ago seemed like the case, but have we actually improved in any substantial way?

I'm glad we weren't stagnant, and relying on drafted rookies and UDFAs to take the spots of vets, but as a whole, we have basically the same level of talent as we had last year.

Meanwhile, pretty much everyone else in our division added talent and improved significantly.

Maintaining the status quo, and/or slight improvement is hardly enough to make me uber-positive.

I still look at our schedule and find it hard to think we will better than 8-8 at best.

I like the moves we made. Some people were really panicking, i told ya to take a chill pill

Originally posted by obx49:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.

Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Great Analysis! The truth or the reality of the situation is really hard to handle for some of these folks. Yea, the offense might have improved a little with Edwards and Goodwin, but how about the big elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring which is Alex Smith?

Defensively, I think we didn't improve at all, in fact, we might have regressed. No run defense, pass defense is still basically the same, and the pass rush is a huge question mark.

Ok, hold up a second fellas.

We are not comparing apples to apples here... You are basing some of your opinions on what you saw here last year, under a Singletary run team. It should not come as a surprise to anyone, that this is a Harbaugh run team. So in case you're not picking up, what I'm putting down... You may want to consider, that the coaching staff is going run some different schemes this year.

Who did we really lose, that was going to be better than the man replacing him on the team this year? The only ones I can think of, is Franklin. I truly will have to see Soap play to that level at the nose to believe... Also, Spikes. Last any of us saw, he was clearly still outplaying Bowman. Though, it's easy to see why money was not spent there, with so many other holes, and a young player with potential waiting for playing time. Not to mention an all-world ILB beside him to help the process.

Let's examine Lawson, he didn't ever materialize as a pass rush olb in the 3-4 for us. I don't think it's a reach to say that giving those reps to Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks over a full season, could produce more pressure on the QB. In fact, it would be difficult not to. Can they set the edge in the run game? That certainly remains to be seen.

Goldson, regressed last year, which means he did what for us exactly? Have one season of decent production? Congrats to him! I think it's fair to say, while MadDog points out underachivers, there is one still waiting for a job offer, named Dashon Goldson. Making the occasional big hit, does not make up for the fact he is a horrible form tackler. Enter Donte Whitner... And personally, I'm excited to see a full season from Reggie Smith, who was the best safety on the team last year.

Or what about losing Nate Clements? Did we really regress there? Really? How quicklt we forget how far Nate had regressed as a 49er. His speed is all but gone, and, has anyone ever attempted to jump as many routes as Nate Clements, and be left standing 5 yards from the line of scrimmage wondering wtf happened? Is it any wonder he was constantly 15 yards off the reciever? He was a liability in press coverage. Carlos Rogers only has to be solid to outperform Nate Clements at this point of his career.

Offensively, Baas has played one solid year in his career. Let's not crown him like the Giants did just yet. I tend to agree with MadDog, that he is still going to develop at center position. However, that does not mean that adding a probowl C, with Championship experience does not make us better, right now. Goodwin may be heading towards the downside, but Baas is still not there yet, and, still needs to prove he can even get there.

We didn't lose a reciever(unless you count Crabs out for the season, and I'm not), yet we added Braylon Edwards. Ok, let me throw the negative Nellys a bone, lets assume he goes to jail for being involved in that fight... What did we actually lose? The money? Doubtful he got a fully gauranteed contract that included going to jail.

So lets just call a spade a spade, shall we? He is a major upgrade over Morgan, and helps us immediately. Both filling in for Crabs, and forcing defenses to consider other options besides VD and Crabs.

Do you think Gore is salivating just a little, knowing defenses will start to take that extra man out of the box to cover? Yeah, me too!

Again though, I go back to comparing apples to apples. All we have to base our opinions on, is what we have saw from any of these players, in the offenses of defenses they played in previously. All that is going to change. Will Spikes look as good in Cincy this year, without Willis beside him? Can Soap hold the Nose down comparable to Franklin? Will the Nose play the same technique ths year? Different schemes with different players.

Baalke and Harbaugh told us they had a plan. And while MadDog feels this wasn't close to the plan I disagree. I think they are trying to use the money, and fill many areas instead of blowing it all on one or two guys, where the risk reward for this team would be too high. See Oakland, who spent as much on Huff as we have spent on our entire free agent class...

I think those who were man enough to own up to their doubts, see that indeed the FO is attempting to do right. And, good on them for not letting their ego get in the way of reason.

Let's face it, a few days ago, there were not many who believed we would be where we are today... Debating if the players will improve the team is one thing, but the crow served for those who doubted the organizations efforts is deserved, as the effort from the FO is certainly there. As Harbaugh himself said, time will be the judge if the plan worked or not.

Originally posted by 49erFan:

Originally posted by obx49:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.

Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Great Analysis! The truth or the reality of the situation is really hard to handle for some of these folks. Yea, the offense might have improved a little with Edwards and Goodwin, but how about the big elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring which is Alex Smith?

Defensively, I think we didn't improve at all, in fact, we might have regressed. No run defense, pass defense is still basically the same, and the pass rush is a huge question mark.

Ok, hold up a second fellas.

We are not comparing apples to apples here... You are basing some of your opinions on what you saw here last year, under a Singletary run team. It should not come as a surprise to anyone, that this is a Harbaugh run team. So in case you're not picking up, what I'm putting down... You may want to consider, that the coaching staff is going run some different schemes this year.

Who did we really lose, that was going to be better than the man replacing him on the team this year? The only ones I can think of, is Franklin. I truly will have to see Soap play to that level at the nose to believe... Also, Spikes. Last any of us saw, he was clearly still outplaying Bowman. Though, it's easy to see why money was not spent there, with so many other holes, and a young player with potential waiting for playing time. Not to mention an all-world ILB beside him to help the process.

Let's examine Lawson, he didn't ever materialize as a pass rush olb in the 3-4 for us. I don't think it's a reach to say that giving those reps to Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks over a full season, could produce more pressure on the QB. In fact, it would be difficult not to. Can they set the edge in the run game? That certainly remains to be seen.

Goldson, regressed last year, which means he did what for us exactly? Have one season of decent production? Congrats to him! I think it's fair to say, while MadDog points out underachivers, there is one still waiting for a job offer, named Dashon Goldson. Making the occasional big hit, does not make up for the fact he is a horrible form tackler. Enter Donte Whitner... And personally, I'm excited to see a full season from Reggie Smith, who was the best safety on the team last year.

Or what about losing Nate Clements? Did we really regress there? Really? How quicklt we forget how far Nate had regressed as a 49er. His speed is all but gone, and, has anyone ever attempted to jump as many routes as Nate Clements, and be left standing 5 yards from the line of scrimmage wondering wtf happened? Is it any wonder he was constantly 15 yards off the reciever? He was a liability in press coverage. Carlos Rogers only has to be solid to outperform Nate Clements at this point of his career.

Offensively, Baas has played one solid year in his career. Let's not crown him like the Giants did just yet. I tend to agree with MadDog, that he is still going to develop at center position. However, that does not mean that adding a probowl C, with Championship experience does not make us better, right now. Goodwin may be heading towards the downside, but Baas is still not there yet, and, still needs to prove he can even get there.

We didn't lose a reciever(unless you count Crabs out for the season, and I'm not), yet we added Braylon Edwards. Ok, let me throw the negative Nellys a bone, lets assume he goes to jail for being involved in that fight... What did we actually lose? The money? Doubtful he got a fully gauranteed contract that included going to jail.

So lets just call a spade a spade, shall we? He is a major upgrade over Morgan, and helps us immediately. Both filling in for Crabs, and forcing defenses to consider other options besides VD and Crabs.

Do you think Gore is salivating just a little, knowing defenses will start to take that extra man out of the box to cover? Yeah, me too!

Again though, I go back to comparing apples to apples. All we have to base our opinions on, is what we have saw from any of these players, in the offenses of defenses they played in previously. All that is going to change. Will Spikes look as good in Cincy this year, without Willis beside him? Can Soap hold the Nose down comparable to Franklin? Will the Nose play the same technique ths year? Different schemes with different players.

Baalke and Harbaugh told us they had a plan. And while MadDog feels this wasn't close to the plan I disagree. I think they are trying to use the money, and fill many areas instead of blowing it all on one or two guys, where the risk reward for this team would be too high. See Oakland, who spent as much on Huff as we have spent on our entire free agent class...

I think those who were man enough to own up to their doubts, see that indeed the FO is attempting to do right. And, good on them for not letting their ego get in the way of reason.

Let's face it, a few days ago, there were not many who believed we would be where we are today... Debating if the players will improve the team is one thing, but the crow served for those who doubted the organizations efforts is deserved, as the effort from the FO is certainly there. As Harbaugh himself said, time will be the judge if the plan worked or not.

Totally didn't read any of this. But let me jump in, MD is wrong. There's a reason MD lives on these forums, it's because his ego is to big to get out his front door.

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by 49erFan:

Originally posted by obx49:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.

Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Great Analysis! The truth or the reality of the situation is really hard to handle for some of these folks. Yea, the offense might have improved a little with Edwards and Goodwin, but how about the big elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring which is Alex Smith?

Defensively, I think we didn't improve at all, in fact, we might have regressed. No run defense, pass defense is still basically the same, and the pass rush is a huge question mark.

Ok, hold up a second fellas.

We are not comparing apples to apples here... You are basing some of your opinions on what you saw here last year, under a Singletary run team. It should not come as a surprise to anyone, that this is a Harbaugh run team. So in case you're not picking up, what I'm putting down... You may want to consider, that the coaching staff is going run some different schemes this year.

Who did we really lose, that was going to be better than the man replacing him on the team this year? The only ones I can think of, is Franklin. I truly will have to see Soap play to that level at the nose to believe... Also, Spikes. Last any of us saw, he was clearly still outplaying Bowman. Though, it's easy to see why money was not spent there, with so many other holes, and a young player with potential waiting for playing time. Not to mention an all-world ILB beside him to help the process.

Let's examine Lawson, he didn't ever materialize as a pass rush olb in the 3-4 for us. I don't think it's a reach to say that giving those reps to Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks over a full season, could produce more pressure on the QB. In fact, it would be difficult not to. Can they set the edge in the run game? That certainly remains to be seen.

Goldson, regressed last year, which means he did what for us exactly? Have one season of decent production? Congrats to him! I think it's fair to say, while MadDog points out underachivers, there is one still waiting for a job offer, named Dashon Goldson. Making the occasional big hit, does not make up for the fact he is a horrible form tackler. Enter Donte Whitner... And personally, I'm excited to see a full season from Reggie Smith, who was the best safety on the team last year.

Or what about losing Nate Clements? Did we really regress there? Really? How quicklt we forget how far Nate had regressed as a 49er. His speed is all but gone, and, has anyone ever attempted to jump as many routes as Nate Clements, and be left standing 5 yards from the line of scrimmage wondering wtf happened? Is it any wonder he was constantly 15 yards off the reciever? He was a liability in press coverage. Carlos Rogers only has to be solid to outperform Nate Clements at this point of his career.

Offensively, Baas has played one solid year in his career. Let's not crown him like the Giants did just yet. I tend to agree with MadDog, that he is still going to develop at center position. However, that does not mean that adding a probowl C, with Championship experience does not make us better, right now. Goodwin may be heading towards the downside, but Baas is still not there yet, and, still needs to prove he can even get there.

We didn't lose a reciever(unless you count Crabs out for the season, and I'm not), yet we added Braylon Edwards. Ok, let me throw the negative Nellys a bone, lets assume he goes to jail for being involved in that fight... What did we actually lose? The money? Doubtful he got a fully gauranteed contract that included going to jail.

So lets just call a spade a spade, shall we? He is a major upgrade over Morgan, and helps us immediately. Both filling in for Crabs, and forcing defenses to consider other options besides VD and Crabs.

Do you think Gore is salivating just a little, knowing defenses will start to take that extra man out of the box to cover? Yeah, me too!

Again though, I go back to comparing apples to apples. All we have to base our opinions on, is what we have saw from any of these players, in the offenses of defenses they played in previously. All that is going to change. Will Spikes look as good in Cincy this year, without Willis beside him? Can Soap hold the Nose down comparable to Franklin? Will the Nose play the same technique ths year? Different schemes with different players.

Baalke and Harbaugh told us they had a plan. And while MadDog feels this wasn't close to the plan I disagree. I think they are trying to use the money, and fill many areas instead of blowing it all on one or two guys, where the risk reward for this team would be too high. See Oakland, who spent as much on Huff as we have spent on our entire free agent class...

I think those who were man enough to own up to their doubts, see that indeed the FO is attempting to do right. And, good on them for not letting their ego get in the way of reason.

Let's face it, a few days ago, there were not many who believed we would be where we are today... Debating if the players will improve the team is one thing, but the crow served for those who doubted the organizations efforts is deserved, as the effort from the FO is certainly there. As Harbaugh himself said, time will be the judge if the plan worked or not.

Totally didn't read any of this. But let me jump in, MD is wrong. There's a reason MD lives on these forums, it's because his ego is to big to get out his front door.

It must suck to hate your favorite team.

Originally posted by WWFGD:

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by 49erFan:

Originally posted by obx49:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.

Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Great Analysis! The truth or the reality of the situation is really hard to handle for some of these folks. Yea, the offense might have improved a little with Edwards and Goodwin, but how about the big elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring which is Alex Smith?

Defensively, I think we didn't improve at all, in fact, we might have regressed. No run defense, pass defense is still basically the same, and the pass rush is a huge question mark.

Ok, hold up a second fellas.

We are not comparing apples to apples here... You are basing some of your opinions on what you saw here last year, under a Singletary run team. It should not come as a surprise to anyone, that this is a Harbaugh run team. So in case you're not picking up, what I'm putting down... You may want to consider, that the coaching staff is going run some different schemes this year.

Who did we really lose, that was going to be better than the man replacing him on the team this year? The only ones I can think of, is Franklin. I truly will have to see Soap play to that level at the nose to believe... Also, Spikes. Last any of us saw, he was clearly still outplaying Bowman. Though, it's easy to see why money was not spent there, with so many other holes, and a young player with potential waiting for playing time. Not to mention an all-world ILB beside him to help the process.

Let's examine Lawson, he didn't ever materialize as a pass rush olb in the 3-4 for us. I don't think it's a reach to say that giving those reps to Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks over a full season, could produce more pressure on the QB. In fact, it would be difficult not to. Can they set the edge in the run game? That certainly remains to be seen.

Goldson, regressed last year, which means he did what for us exactly? Have one season of decent production? Congrats to him! I think it's fair to say, while MadDog points out underachivers, there is one still waiting for a job offer, named Dashon Goldson. Making the occasional big hit, does not make up for the fact he is a horrible form tackler. Enter Donte Whitner... And personally, I'm excited to see a full season from Reggie Smith, who was the best safety on the team last year.

Or what about losing Nate Clements? Did we really regress there? Really? How quicklt we forget how far Nate had regressed as a 49er. His speed is all but gone, and, has anyone ever attempted to jump as many routes as Nate Clements, and be left standing 5 yards from the line of scrimmage wondering wtf happened? Is it any wonder he was constantly 15 yards off the reciever? He was a liability in press coverage. Carlos Rogers only has to be solid to outperform Nate Clements at this point of his career.

Offensively, Baas has played one solid year in his career. Let's not crown him like the Giants did just yet. I tend to agree with MadDog, that he is still going to develop at center position. However, that does not mean that adding a probowl C, with Championship experience does not make us better, right now. Goodwin may be heading towards the downside, but Baas is still not there yet, and, still needs to prove he can even get there.

We didn't lose a reciever(unless you count Crabs out for the season, and I'm not), yet we added Braylon Edwards. Ok, let me throw the negative Nellys a bone, lets assume he goes to jail for being involved in that fight... What did we actually lose? The money? Doubtful he got a fully gauranteed contract that included going to jail.

So lets just call a spade a spade, shall we? He is a major upgrade over Morgan, and helps us immediately. Both filling in for Crabs, and forcing defenses to consider other options besides VD and Crabs.

Do you think Gore is salivating just a little, knowing defenses will start to take that extra man out of the box to cover? Yeah, me too!

Again though, I go back to comparing apples to apples. All we have to base our opinions on, is what we have saw from any of these players, in the offenses of defenses they played in previously. All that is going to change. Will Spikes look as good in Cincy this year, without Willis beside him? Can Soap hold the Nose down comparable to Franklin? Will the Nose play the same technique ths year? Different schemes with different players.

Baalke and Harbaugh told us they had a plan. And while MadDog feels this wasn't close to the plan I disagree. I think they are trying to use the money, and fill many areas instead of blowing it all on one or two guys, where the risk reward for this team would be too high. See Oakland, who spent as much on Huff as we have spent on our entire free agent class...

I think those who were man enough to own up to their doubts, see that indeed the FO is attempting to do right. And, good on them for not letting their ego get in the way of reason.

Let's face it, a few days ago, there were not many who believed we would be where we are today... Debating if the players will improve the team is one thing, but the crow served for those who doubted the organizations efforts is deserved, as the effort from the FO is certainly there. As Harbaugh himself said, time will be the judge if the plan worked or not.

Totally didn't read any of this. But let me jump in, MD is wrong. There's a reason MD lives on these forums, it's because his ego is to big to get out his front door.

It must suck to hate your favorite team.

Ya I couldn't imagine spending so much of my time dedicated to hating something I'm supposed to love. It's kind of sick.

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by 49erFan:

Originally posted by obx49:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.

Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Great Analysis! The truth or the reality of the situation is really hard to handle for some of these folks. Yea, the offense might have improved a little with Edwards and Goodwin, but how about the big elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring which is Alex Smith?

Defensively, I think we didn't improve at all, in fact, we might have regressed. No run defense, pass defense is still basically the same, and the pass rush is a huge question mark.

Ok, hold up a second fellas.

We are not comparing apples to apples here... You are basing some of your opinions on what you saw here last year, under a Singletary run team. It should not come as a surprise to anyone, that this is a Harbaugh run team. So in case you're not picking up, what I'm putting down... You may want to consider, that the coaching staff is going run some different schemes this year.

Who did we really lose, that was going to be better than the man replacing him on the team this year? The only ones I can think of, is Franklin. I truly will have to see Soap play to that level at the nose to believe... Also, Spikes. Last any of us saw, he was clearly still outplaying Bowman. Though, it's easy to see why money was not spent there, with so many other holes, and a young player with potential waiting for playing time. Not to mention an all-world ILB beside him to help the process.

Let's examine Lawson, he didn't ever materialize as a pass rush olb in the 3-4 for us. I don't think it's a reach to say that giving those reps to Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks over a full season, could produce more pressure on the QB. In fact, it would be difficult not to. Can they set the edge in the run game? That certainly remains to be seen.

Goldson, regressed last year, which means he did what for us exactly? Have one season of decent production? Congrats to him! I think it's fair to say, while MadDog points out underachivers, there is one still waiting for a job offer, named Dashon Goldson. Making the occasional big hit, does not make up for the fact he is a horrible form tackler. Enter Donte Whitner... And personally, I'm excited to see a full season from Reggie Smith, who was the best safety on the team last year.

Or what about losing Nate Clements? Did we really regress there? Really? How quicklt we forget how far Nate had regressed as a 49er. His speed is all but gone, and, has anyone ever attempted to jump as many routes as Nate Clements, and be left standing 5 yards from the line of scrimmage wondering wtf happened? Is it any wonder he was constantly 15 yards off the reciever? He was a liability in press coverage. Carlos Rogers only has to be solid to outperform Nate Clements at this point of his career.

Offensively, Baas has played one solid year in his career. Let's not crown him like the Giants did just yet. I tend to agree with MadDog, that he is still going to develop at center position. However, that does not mean that adding a probowl C, with Championship experience does not make us better, right now. Goodwin may be heading towards the downside, but Baas is still not there yet, and, still needs to prove he can even get there.

We didn't lose a reciever(unless you count Crabs out for the season, and I'm not), yet we added Braylon Edwards. Ok, let me throw the negative Nellys a bone, lets assume he goes to jail for being involved in that fight... What did we actually lose? The money? Doubtful he got a fully gauranteed contract that included going to jail.

So lets just call a spade a spade, shall we? He is a major upgrade over Morgan, and helps us immediately. Both filling in for Crabs, and forcing defenses to consider other options besides VD and Crabs.

Do you think Gore is salivating just a little, knowing defenses will start to take that extra man out of the box to cover? Yeah, me too!

Again though, I go back to comparing apples to apples. All we have to base our opinions on, is what we have saw from any of these players, in the offenses of defenses they played in previously. All that is going to change. Will Spikes look as good in Cincy this year, without Willis beside him? Can Soap hold the Nose down comparable to Franklin? Will the Nose play the same technique ths year? Different schemes with different players.

Baalke and Harbaugh told us they had a plan. And while MadDog feels this wasn't close to the plan I disagree. I think they are trying to use the money, and fill many areas instead of blowing it all on one or two guys, where the risk reward for this team would be too high. See Oakland, who spent as much on Huff as we have spent on our entire free agent class...

I think those who were man enough to own up to their doubts, see that indeed the FO is attempting to do right. And, good on them for not letting their ego get in the way of reason.

Let's face it, a few days ago, there were not many who believed we would be where we are today... Debating if the players will improve the team is one thing, but the crow served for those who doubted the organizations efforts is deserved, as the effort from the FO is certainly there. As Harbaugh himself said, time will be the judge if the plan worked or not.

Totally didn't read any of this. But let me jump in, MD is wrong. There's a reason MD lives on these forums, it's because his ego is to big to get out his front door.

Totally should've read it; the best post I've seen all day.

lol, got a website I could get the cliff notes of it?

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by TexasNiner:
I still want to know who thinks we have actually gotten better?

We have a WR who has motivation/legal issues who may or not be able to play when we need him most.

Otherwise, we have added players on the same level (more or less) as who they replaced.

We haven't gotten worse, which a week ago seemed like the case, but have we actually improved in any substantial way?

I'm glad we weren't stagnant, and relying on drafted rookies and UDFAs to take the spots of vets, but as a whole, we have basically the same level of talent as we had last year.

Meanwhile, pretty much everyone else in our division added talent and improved significantly.

Maintaining the status quo, and/or slight improvement is hardly enough to make me uber-positive.

I still look at our schedule and find it hard to think we will better than 8-8 at best.

Like I said yesterday. If all our moves are lateral at best, coaching is a huge upgrade and should lead to some more wins. That being said, between our rookies, younger guys getting better, and FA's I'd say we're sitting a little better talent-wise. Combine that with better coaching, we should be competing for a playoff spot in our division.

I wish I could be as optimistic as you, but I just don't see it. Pretty much every pro sport ever has proven that talent makes a good coach look like a genius and a lack of it makes a good coach look like a fool.

A coach can make a difference, but unless he recruits the talent to improve the team, his impact is limited. Not even the best coach in the world can make an average team (talent wise) into real contenders.

We have, for the most part, just replaced parts we lost with comparable players. So even if we call that a wash, or even a slight upgrade, the coach can only make them be as good as they are capable of being.

A cook with average ingredients will never make something as good as one with the best ingredients. Even if the cook with lesser ingredients is "better". What you have to work with matters as much, if not more, than what you can do with it.