The Official Harbaugh Era QB competition!

Originally posted by JayBee:


so basically, the pro-smith group are good, objective, intelligent guys

The anti-smith are unwavering, irrational, demons

Got ya. I'm not sure how you can criticize people who after 6 years of the same unsuccesful QB want a new one.

I mean, we gave him a shot. We supported him and he has failed time and time again. It's not like we wrote him off the second he was drafted. We rooted for him to play well. So to tell me that I'm irrational or absolute in my thinking because I wouldn't give a QB another chance after 6 years of chances...is ridiculous.

Thank you for proving my point by using combative and inaccurate paraphrases of my post. I underlined the parts that are inaccurate...leaves you with about five words that I will accept as representative of my opinions. Then you polish it off by saying that your misquote of my opinion is ridiculous.

To make my point more clear--the reason I have stated that one side seems to be black and white and not accepting of the other's opinion can be seen in your remarks that are mischaracterizations and lead to personal rather than objective responses.

The thread is titled, "Hypothetically Speaking: If Alex Smith has a Great 2011..." That has even been misquoted--someone having added "he has a 90 QB rating." Just to further confuse the debate?

If Smith has a great year I will be pleased because the 9ers will have had a great year. If Smith makes no progress I will likely state the same thing I said this year...bring in more QBs to win the job and improve the team. The only players I want to subtract are those who create problems with team mates and for coaches...and those who are beaten out by better players.

dtg makes an interesting point about hoping that harbaugh can coach alex to play more instinctively.

i'm curious what people think about that notion. is the ability to play instinctively really a teachable skill? isn't it by definition an inherent trait that you either have or you don't?

Playing more loosely would seem to go against Alex's cautious, deliberate nature, requiring a pretty significant transformation of his psychological makeup. I hope Harbaugh took clinical psych 101!

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
Hypothetically speaking: What if Alex gets hurt in preseason and Carr comes in and lights it up throwing for 4200 yds, 35 tds, 5 int, leading us to our first playoff appearance since 2002, do we sign him to a long-term contract?

This is a possibility, because having a short training camp Chilo / A davis are due to miss a block in a preseason game, and some dude trying to prove himself will drill Alex and screw up his shoulder again. Isn't A. Davis the reason Alex got Injured last year?

Granted though, IF anyone remembers carr scrambling and diving head first IN THE PRESEASON last year, he probably won't survive preseason either.. so CK would be starting by default.

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by unst4bl3:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by unst4bl3:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by bigmike55:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by dj43:

If you truly believe all this team needs is Philip Rivers then I have lost a little respect for your credibility.

This offense needs a RG, a LT, a healthy LT, a TE that can read and adjust, WRs that can run good routes and get separation...and then we come to a defense that can't rush the passer or defend against the pass. Other than that, yes, this team could dominate.

Why lose credibility for me? Think about it for a second. Phillip Rivers was on a 9-7 team and had a phenomenal year. They missed the playoffs because the team sucked. DESPITE THE s**tTY TEAM EFFORT, Rivers was able to put up phenominal stats with his main WR gone most of the season, and his stud TE injured. Also, their OLINE was crap. If their TEAM was better, Rivers' QB play would have been worth a s**t. A.Smith barely puts up stats like this in his career...

Phillip Rivers 2010 Stats:
Comp: 65%
Yards: 4,710 (Smith has yet to hit 3,000 in any one season)
TD: 30 (Smith has 51 in 5 seasons. 6 including the injury season)
Int: 13 (Smith had 9 in the first 5 games)
Sacked: 38 (Bad OL this year but still able to produce)
Rating: 101.8 (Smith has yet to eclipse 85 in any given season)

So yeah. I do think the 49ers need Rivers. I think him and the 9ers would dominate the NFC west. I'll take his 30 tds and skills any day. Despite having no weapons on O for most of the year, and a bad Oline, he was able to produce and play well. His team went 9-7 because he willed them to some victories with sheer great QB play despite all the injuries, suspensions, and drama. And with no RB game to speak of.

So before you bash my cred, think about it.

With Rivers, the 9ers would be a force in the NFC for many years to come.

Hypothetically speaking, yes.

Some people truly don't understand that a great QB can make a lot of holes go away.

You really think a Brees or Rivers would struggle to get the ball to Crabs/Morgan/VD? You think the D would be as bad with all that newfound rest they'd get cuz the O can acutally move the ball?

I'm so sick of people downplaying the talent on this team.

Arizona went from SB contender to worst team in the league in 1 season cuz they lost their QB.

Exactly... Swap Alex Smith for any good to decent QB in the league and we are instantly better, not just at the QB position but as a team. Receivers would get the ball delivered on time with accuracy, the Oline wouldn't have to pass protect as long, the opponents defense wouldn't stack 8-9 guys in the box because they would have some respect for our QB/passing game, our RBs would thrive with a more balanced attack, and like you mentioned, our defense would get off the field for longer and get some much needed rest.

Alex Smith is one of the worst QBs in NFL history and the thought of him playing a 7th season as a 49er is a shame. I wouldn't be surprised if some journey man free agent comes in and beats him for the starting spot like usual.

Your knowledge of football history must be pretty weak if you think he is one of the worst ever. It is quite clear you have lost all objectivity if you honestly believe that.

The Cardinals lost more than just Warner before they fell apart... Also, Alex is not one of the worst in history, there are people like jamarcus russell Akeli smith, Cody Pickett, Ryan Leaf, Danny Wurfeul, Tim Tebow.. etc

Infact, I bet if Alex was on the Cardinals team last year, they make the playoffs and not the seahawks.

Wonder what those guys would look like if they got 6 years of time rather than 1, 2 or 3 years.
Also, how is Tim Tebow on the list? I don't really like Tebow, but in his limited time in the league, he's looked decent. A hell of a lot better than Alex did in his rookie season.

the Tebow part was sarcasm, or a failed attempt at a joke. As far as the bolded part goes, Alex was not as bad as any of those other QB's, it was clear they werent even good enough to be backups. That is probably my only guess at why The niners have an addiction to Smitty. (That and any of the other FA QB's out there, aren't really a huge upgrade, or could possibly be worse.)

Alex's stats in his first 2 seasons were very similar to Ryan Leaf's. Leaf was just a douchebag and his teammates hated him.

Cody Pickett? He was a 7th round pick...he doesn't qualify...the team invested nothing in him.

Akili Smith? His rookie season numbers were better than Alex's. Thing is, he was never a good prospect and Cincy cut their ties with him.

Wuerfel was a 4th round pick. He doesn't qualify.

Alex had one of the worst rookie seasons in recent memory. He got better in his 2nd year and slightly improved every year after that.

But, if he wasn't a 1st pick and the Yorks weren't cheapskates, he would have either been cut or replaced with another QB of the future after his 2nd/3rd year and he'd be mentioned in the same sentence as Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus.

He's lucky as hell that the franchise stuck with him, because no other franchise would have.

So again, I wonder if the guys I listed got the chance that Alex did, if any of them would have succeeded. Jamarcus and Ryan Leaf probably wouldn't have since they had attitude issues and weren't hard workers...but what about the others? hmm

I have no disagreement with your post, I was just stating that there are/were worse qb's than Alex, since it was stated that he was "one of the worst in History"

To be fair though, any other year and Alex would have been like a late first maye 2nd round pick, and then his flame out wouldnt have been so magnified.

Anyways, he has improved slightly every year, and the fact that he was better than usual under Johnson gives me hope for this year.

Originally posted by classyfan49:
dtg makes an interesting point about hoping that harbaugh can coach alex to play more instinctively.

i'm curious what people think about that notion. is the ability to play instinctively really a teachable skill? isn't it by definition an inherent trait that you either have or you don't?

I honestly think there is only so much you can teach. To be great qb you have to have talent, work ethic and instinct. in my opinion smith is missing 2 out of 3 of those traits. they are the 2 traits that can't be taught. He might be a nice guy and a hard worker but that's not enough.

Originally posted by classyfan49:
dtg makes an interesting point about hoping that harbaugh can coach alex to play more instinctively.

i'm curious what people think about that notion. is the ability to play instinctively really a teachable skill? isn't it by definition an inherent trait that you either have or you don't?

He does make an awesome point, Alex in College played a little more instinctively and relaxed. I don't believe it really has to be taught, it needs to be encouraged and nutured so he will feel comfortable doing it again.

I know it's been said a million times, but when he came off the bench against the (colts or houston or whatever game it was) He was just letting it rip, and it seemed like he finally understood the pro game. I believe he was just relaxed, and playing instinctively in those rare occasions, like that last home game of teh season where he did good, probably because the weight of being a niner was finally off his shoulders..

Sorry for the epic run on sentence..

Originally posted by classyfan49:
Playing more loosely would seem to go against Alex's cautious, deliberate nature, requiring a pretty significant transformation of his psychological makeup. I hope Harbaugh took clinical psych 101!

Alex's nature... as described long ago by Urban Meyer... was that once he is comfortable with the intricacies of the system, he is instinctual and plays loosely. Problem was, he never had a steady and competent scheme long enough to reach that level of comfort. Add to that, the extreme rigidness of Nolan + Singletary, and it is no wonder his instincts and loose play were unattainable.

The only question left is, is the wiring in his brain irrevocably set? I genuinely do not think so. In some people, it would have been. They would have given up or had a Ryan Leaf-esque mental explosion. I don't see that from Alex's actions, words, or known character make-up.

Originally posted by classyfan49:
Playing more loosely would seem to go against Alex's cautious, deliberate nature, requiring a pretty significant transformation of his psychological makeup. I hope Harbaugh took clinical psych 101!

That would be my greatest worry at this point--his not being able to loosen up. But Harbaugh, even though intense, is intense about practicing with joy and fun, rather than scowling and judging every play. He is much more likely to get Smith to loosen up, whereas Nolan and Singletary fed Smith's tendency to internalize the pressure.

Hope is not the same thing as predicting or expecting. I hope the 9ers win the super bowl next year with Smith as their QB. I expect them to be more interesting but slipping and sliding as they convert to the WCO. As we watch them it should become apparent whether it is working or Harbaugh needs to make roster changes.

Sadly, the roster changes I could see necessary include: TE (if VD can't adjust), OL (not just Rachal but also others who can't move quickly), WR (if no one steps up), and QB (if none of them catch onto what Harbaugh is doing).

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by classyfan49:
Playing more loosely would seem to go against Alex's cautious, deliberate nature, requiring a pretty significant transformation of his psychological makeup. I hope Harbaugh took clinical psych 101!

Alex's nature... as described long ago by Urban Meyer... was that once he is comfortable with the intricacies of the system, he is instinctual and plays loosely. Problem was, he never had a steady and competent scheme long enough to reach that level of comfort. Add to that, the extreme rigidness of Nolan + Singletary, and it is no wonder his instincts and loose play were unattainable.

The only question left is, is the wiring in his brain irrevocably set? I genuinely do not think so. In some people, it would have been. They would have given up or had a Ryan Leaf-esque mental explosion. I don't see that from Alex's actions, words, or known character make-up.

Now this is a decent Alex Smith discussion (at least on this page)

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by classyfan49:
Playing more loosely would seem to go against Alex's cautious, deliberate nature, requiring a pretty significant transformation of his psychological makeup. I hope Harbaugh took clinical psych 101!

That would be my greatest worry at this point--his not being able to loosen up. But Harbaugh, even though intense, is intense about practicing with joy and fun, rather than scowling and judging every play. He is much more likely to get Smith to loosen up, whereas Nolan and Singletary fed Smith's tendency to internalize the pressure.

Hope is not the same thing as predicting or expecting. I hope the 9ers win the super bowl next year with Smith as their QB. I expect them to be more interesting but slipping and sliding as they convert to the WCO. As we watch them it should become apparent whether it is working or Harbaugh needs to make roster changes.

Sadly, the roster changes I could see necessary include: TE (if VD can't adjust), OL (not just Rachal but also others who can't move quickly), WR (if no one steps up), and QB (if none of them catch onto what Harbaugh is doing).

I remember the steve young led niners and the wco run plays that involved some trapping and pulling, and we had semi quick Olinemen then, i wonder if our current guys are up to the task. You pose a good question/statement there.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by classyfan49:
Playing more loosely would seem to go against Alex's cautious, deliberate nature, requiring a pretty significant transformation of his psychological makeup. I hope Harbaugh took clinical psych 101!

Alex's nature... as described long ago by Urban Meyer... was that once he is comfortable with the intricacies of the system, he is instinctual and plays loosely. Problem was, he never had a steady and competent scheme long enough to reach that level of comfort. Add to that, the extreme rigidness of Nolan + Singletary, and it is no wonder his instincts and loose play were unattainable.

The only question left is, is the wiring in his brain irrevocably set? I genuinely do not think so. In some people, it would have been. They would have given up or had a Ryan Leaf-esque mental explosion. I don't see that from Alex's actions, words, or known character make-up.

Let's hope his brain and psyche are still malleable! Right now, I feel like he's David Carr, Jr. Both are company guys who generally say the right things and do the right things. However, bad habits have set in for both of them, and those may be pretty hard to shake.

Originally posted by unst4bl3:

I remember the steve young led niners and the wco run plays that involved some trapping and pulling, and we had semi quick Olinemen then, i wonder if our current guys are up to the task. You pose a good question/statement there.

A few of the OL have reduced their weight, which you probably have heard by now. Baas, Rachal, and Davis don't strike me as particularly quick and athletic... possibly enough, but not ideal for tons of efficient pulls or working in space.

(hope I am just underestimating that though)

Originally posted by classyfan49:


Let's hope his brain and psyche are still malleable! Right now, I feel like he's David Carr, Jr. Both are company guys who generally say the right things and do the right things. However, bad habits have set in for both of them, and those may be pretty hard to shake.

Now that we have Harbaugh, I think he can quickly smack the discipline back into place as in-game pressures threaten to dislodge the basic fundamentals.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by unst4bl3:

I remember the steve young led niners and the wco run plays that involved some trapping and pulling, and we had semi quick Olinemen then, i wonder if our current guys are up to the task. You pose a good question/statement there.

A few of the OL have reduced their weight, which you probably have heard by now. Baas, Rachal, and Davis don't strike me as particularly quick and athletic... possibly enough, but not ideal for tons of efficient pulls or working in space.

(hope I am just underestimating that though)

Not sure how Harbaugh views the OL in regard to size and speed but the original WCO utilized smaller, quicker guys who could lead sweeps, pull, and create havoc by stunting (cross blocking, etc.). Stanfords line averaged around 280-290 if I'm not mistaken.

Of the current guys I would think Staley best fits that mold. Snyder seem to be able to morph into any system and keeps making the team. All the others are question marks to me. Lupati seems fairly quick and Davis has good feet, but we won't know until JH has them running all over the place. I would guess that the line shifts used at Stanford will not be as prevalent.

Originally posted by unst4bl3:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by classyfan49:
Playing more loosely would seem to go against Alex's cautious, deliberate nature, requiring a pretty significant transformation of his psychological makeup. I hope Harbaugh took clinical psych 101!

That would be my greatest worry at this point--his not being able to loosen up. But Harbaugh, even though intense, is intense about practicing with joy and fun, rather than scowling and judging every play. He is much more likely to get Smith to loosen up, whereas Nolan and Singletary fed Smith's tendency to internalize the pressure.

Hope is not the same thing as predicting or expecting. I hope the 9ers win the super bowl next year with Smith as their QB. I expect them to be more interesting but slipping and sliding as they convert to the WCO. As we watch them it should become apparent whether it is working or Harbaugh needs to make roster changes.

Sadly, the roster changes I could see necessary include: TE (if VD can't adjust), OL (not just Rachal but also others who can't move quickly), WR (if no one steps up), and QB (if none of them catch onto what Harbaugh is doing).

I remember the steve young led niners and the wco run plays that involved some trapping and pulling, and we had semi quick Olinemen then, i wonder if our current guys are up to the task. You pose a good question/statement there.

They used to run that FB inside trap to Floyd with perfection. folks really undervalued the Niners running game during the WCO years