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Jul 7, 2011 at 4:29 PM
I'm not into hypotheticals.
Jul 7, 2011 at 4:51 PM
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Just because I think a player who has been awful for 6 years will be awful in his 7th, that means I want the team to fail?

No, but when your desire to see a player, and thus likely the team, fail simply so that you can crow about how you "told you so" exceeds your desire to see the team succeed regardless of who is under center, that speaks volumes.

Which is more important to you? Team success with Smith or team failure so that you can be "right"?


You're right.

I'll just fall in line with the rest and bash Sing, Carr, Troy Smith, Crabtree, Rachal, etc...because fans who bash those guys and call them busts *cough* are hoping for team failure just so they can say "I told you so".

The golden boy is untouchable.

Just so we're clear...if Alex leads this team to a Super Bowl, I'll be elated...and I hope...for everyone's sake that he gets it together this year. I just think he won't. What makes my opinion less valid than yours?
Jul 7, 2011 at 4:54 PM
  • fly15
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Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Just because I think a player who has been awful for 6 years will be awful in his 7th, that means I want the team to fail?

No, but when your desire to see a player, and thus likely the team, fail simply so that you can crow about how you "told you so" exceeds your desire to see the team succeed regardless of who is under center, that speaks volumes.

Which is more important to you? Team success with Smith or team failure so that you can be "right"?


You're right.

I'll just fall in line with the rest and bash Sing, Carr, Troy Smith, Crabtree, Rachal, etc...because fans who bash those guys and call them busts *cough* are hoping for team failure just so they can say "I told you so".

The golden boy is untouchable.

Just so we're clear...if Alex leads this team to a Super Bowl, I'll be elated...and I hope...for everyone's sake that he gets it together this year. I just think he won't. What makes my opinion less valid than yours?

he wont
Jul 7, 2011 at 4:57 PM
Originally posted by pelos21:
I'm not into hypotheticals.

Only absolutes?
[ Edited by unst4bl3 on Jul 7, 2011 at 4:57 PM ]
Jul 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM
Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
Originally posted by susweel:
Ahhhh hope is eternal.

Lol

Alex leading us to a 9-7 is a "great" 2011.

lol.

Great? No Good? No. Decent? Yes. People who have lofty goals, even if they don't attain them, climb higher, those who have lower expecations are always swimming in a cespool of you know what.

I always hope for the best for the niners, but its hard to break the cycle of abuse.
Jul 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
Originally posted by susweel:
Ahhhh hope is eternal.

Lol

Alex leading us to a 9-7 is a "great" 2011.

lol.

Great? No Good? No. Decent? Yes. People who have lofty goals, even if they don't attain them, climb higher, those who have lower expecations are always swimming in a cespool of you know what.

I always hope for the best for the niners, but its hard to break the cycle of abuse.
Cycle has been broken already, because The Nolantery era is over.
Jul 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Just because I think a player who has been awful for 6 years will be awful in his 7th, that means I want the team to fail?

No, but when your desire to see a player, and thus likely the team, fail simply so that you can crow about how you "told you so" exceeds your desire to see the team succeed regardless of who is under center, that speaks volumes.

Which is more important to you? Team success with Smith or team failure so that you can be "right"?


You're right.

I'll just fall in line with the rest and bash Sing, Carr, Troy Smith, Crabtree, Rachal, etc...because fans who bash those guys and call them busts *cough* are hoping for team failure just so they can say "I told you so".

The golden boy is untouchable.

Just so we're clear...if Alex leads this team to a Super Bowl, I'll be elated...and I hope...for everyone's sake that he gets it together this year. I just think he won't. What makes my opinion less valid than yours?

Wow. You tend to overreact and go to extremes when you post. A side effect is the creation of strawmen arguments (see prior discussions). The "but they did it, too!!" argument also doesn't work.

I just asked a question. You have given an answer...sort of.

Your opinion is perfectly valid. I just happen to disagree with the factual premises underlying it and, often, the manner in which you express it.
Jul 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM
Hypothetically speaking, if Harbaugh and his staff can make Alex a winner (at least 9-7 record) then imagine what Harbaugh can do with a QB who is actually decent?

Ditch Alex no matter what and bring in some decent QBs.
Jul 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM
Originally posted by prime21:
First of all, we need to see it to believe it. Smith will be over and done with after this season. Its sad to talk this way about such a good guy, but its the NFL not some kind of chariy for the weak and pathetic. The only way Smith will ever dominate will be in the CFL or maybe NFL Europe. I wouldnt mind Smith as our #2, he'd be a great backup judging by the way he's been organizing team practices on the field and in the classroom.

Alex seems to do better coming off the bench. Why? Probably cause their are no expectations and he can just play. The minute the season starts and he is the starter or if the season is on the line he tightens up, he just doesn't have the it factor.
Jul 7, 2011 at 5:05 PM
Originally posted by fister30:
Hypothetically speaking, if Harbaugh and his staff can make Alex a winner (at least 9-7 record) then imagine what Harbaugh can do with a QB who is actually decent?

Ditch Alex no matter what and bring in some decent QBs.

  1. What if the team goes 10-6 and into the playoffs, but Smith tosses 30 ints and 10 tds. Is he a "winner" then?
  2. On the other hand, what if the team goes 4-12, but Smith tosses 36 TDs, 4 INTs and leads the league in most passing categories? Is he a "loser" then?

These are the problems that I have with the simplistic position of the extremists on BOTH SIDES: In my opinion, one cannot completely separate the QB from the team, and a W/L record does not tell the whole story.

Jul 7, 2011 at 5:08 PM
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
I've read this book every year for the last 5 years. The ending is still the same.
No it isn't. Nolan and Sing and their incompetent band of coaches are gone. THAT is what was here for 5 years with very little change.

If that is your position, then why waste the time and money to hire Harbaugh. If it was all about the quarterback, then Harbaugh is a waste. He won't be able to do any more with Kaep than Nolan/Sing did with Troy, Alex, Carr, Rattay, JTO, and friends.

Question...

During Nolan and Sing's reign....All the QB's that we have seen on this roster over 6 years. Were any of them quality players?

You can crap on Nolan and Sing as much as you want...but the QB's that were either signed, traded for or drafted have all been sub par. Bad coaching has nothing to do with it. If you're a poor QB, you're a poor QB.

Question to you...

Explain the case of Steve Young? He was God-awful until he had a good coach and better talent around him, why do you think that was?

You couldn't even answer my question.

As far as Steve Young....I'm NOT of the opinion that the difference between a poor QB and a good one is coaching. No frigging way.

Comparing Steve's 16 or so games on one of the worst NFL teams in history to Alex's 60 or so games is blasphemous and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I guess the difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning was coaching, huh? Yall kill me.

With all due respect, it cuts both ways, it is like raising a kid, soem require no attention and are a parents dream, others take some work, still others are a lost cause. Steve was by no means natural. He had his moments, but it was like the taming of the shrew, the talent was there and he did show moments and flashes of a gamer which is more than Alex has, but he did need work and fell in the middle category. guys like Sammy Baugh, Marino and P Manning are naturals.
Jul 7, 2011 at 5:19 PM
Originally posted by a24hrdad:
My Crystal ball says: "Unclear, try again"

Don't you mean magic eight ball?
Jul 7, 2011 at 5:31 PM
"Alex seems to do better coming off the bench. Why? Probably cause their are no expectations and he can just play. The minute the season starts and he is the starter or if the season is on the line he tightens up...."

I agree .
Jul 7, 2011 at 5:35 PM
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by fister30:
Hypothetically speaking, if Harbaugh and his staff can make Alex a winner (at least 9-7 record) then imagine what Harbaugh can do with a QB who is actually decent?

Ditch Alex no matter what and bring in some decent QBs.

  1. What if the team goes 10-6 and into the playoffs, but Smith tosses 30 ints and 10 tds. Is he a "winner" then?
  2. On the other hand, what if the team goes 4-12, but Smith tosses 36 TDs, 4 INTs and leads the league in most passing categories? Is he a "loser" then?

These are the problems that I have with the simplistic position of the extremists on BOTH SIDES: In my opinion, one cannot completely separate the QB from the team, and a W/L record does not tell the whole story.

Well, we both know that it is highly unlikely 99.99 %) that a QB with 30 ints will lead a team to a 10-6 record and vice versa as stats usually show turn overs is often key indicator of a team doin well, avg or poor.
Jul 7, 2011 at 5:45 PM
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by fister30:
Hypothetically speaking, if Harbaugh and his staff can make Alex a winner (at least 9-7 record) then imagine what Harbaugh can do with a QB who is actually decent?

Ditch Alex no matter what and bring in some decent QBs.

  1. What if the team goes 10-6 and into the playoffs, but Smith tosses 30 ints and 10 tds. Is he a "winner" then?
  2. On the other hand, what if the team goes 4-12, but Smith tosses 36 TDs, 4 INTs and leads the league in most passing categories? Is he a "loser" then?

These are the problems that I have with the simplistic position of the extremists on BOTH SIDES: In my opinion, one cannot completely separate the QB from the team, and a W/L record does not tell the whole story.

Well, we both know that it is highly unlikely 99.99 %) that a QB with 30 ints will lead a team to a 10-6 record and vice versa as stats usually show turn overs is often key indicator of a team doin well, avg or poor.

The stats were skewed to an extreme on purpose. Point being - the W/L record is not solely a reflection of the QB as many seem to believe. Having said that - as others have pointed out - Smith needs to put the team on his back more and will them to victory either through play, leadership or both.
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