Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Tell me how Crabtree needs the advice of Zeigler about a brand new offense that none of them know? They are all professional receivers, they know how to run the route tree. Funny you brought up a guy with less than 10 career catches to advise a guy with over 90 in less than half as many seasons. How much chemistry does Zeigler have with Smith? Where has that gotten the team? No where.
Its not about one form of practice being safer than the other. Its about not holding up your end of a contract when the other side is locking you out without pay or insurance. Why would the owners worry about getting this CBA dispute settled if they new their teams were putting in the work they are not paying them for?
It was "Zeigler or any other veteran WR." Through VD into the mix as I believe he should be there as well and he needs work. In informal practices the players talk about the routes and work out scenarios with the QBs. They can watch and critique each other, if their egos are in check.
Crabtree is a young guy who can learn from almost any decent, hardworking vet. Not a criticism as most two year players are in this position but coming from the TTech offense did not get him NFL ready.
As far as those who beleive Smith can't teach and learns playbooks slowly...what on earth are you thinking? Smith is a very bright guy and no doubt learns the playbook quickly, he just needs time to actually work through his plays in order to be comfortable. Some athletes are uncomfortable until they know the whole playbook and also know their team mates tendencies.
Smith is analytical, which does get in his way. But then, what coaches have had the brain power to help him? Norv...anyone else other than mad Martz when Smith was injured?
He was not that good under Norv. Barely scratching at average, decent rookies come in and have better years than 2600 yards and 16 tds with 16 picks. Crabtree has little to learn from Zeigler or Vernon Davis in an unsupervised throwing session. Its a matter of valuing time. Is being out their going to make him a better player? I can tell you right now the answer is no. This is why we have sucked for the past 6 years. We practiced far more than most other teams under Singletary and got worse game by game, and Crabtree's play has not improved since he came into the league. Why? Because the practices were inefficient and the coaches did not know what they were doing.
Many of us are prone to generalizing but "decent rookies come in and have better years than 2600 yards and 16 tds with 16 picks" is a bit over the top. Very few rookies start at all, and the ones that do are usually on bad teams.
Just for fun lets look at another QB in his 1st, 4th & 8th years with the 9ers:
1979: 96 yards, 1 TD, 0 Ints (greatest QB in history--1st year)
1982: 2,613, 17 TDs, 11 ints (greatest QB in history--4th year)
1986: 2,236, 8 TDs, 9 Ints (greatest QB in history--8th year)
This with the best offensive coach in the history of the game!
Did you just compare QB stats from the late 70's early 80's to the late 2000's? Really?
You can't just take stats from one era and apply them to another era. You have to compare said player to his PEERS. David Garrard has had better seasons than most of the QB's in the HOF....but compared to his peers he's a middle of the road QB.
That was my point. People keep comparing Smith to QBs in totally different circumstances and it is rediculous. Manning has an offense build around him, had a very good line until recently, wonderful hardworking receivers and great coaching. Is it any wonder his talent then allowed him to excel?
Smith came into the league with no receivers, a very mediocre to bad line and some of the most inept coaches in history. But, while you want to give Crabtree a break, you do not care to consider Smith's circumstances seriously. That is my point and thank you for getting it.
Edit: Comparing to peers is fine as long as you consider surrounding team quality.
Alex has a lot of quality around him. I don't compare him to the Mannings and the Bradys of the world.... that's not fair.
But I will compare him to the Ortons, Bradfords, Cutlers, Garrards, etc...and Alex is far behind those guys.
Contrary to popular belief, Alex has a lot of talent around him. And please cool it with the "most inept coaches in history" bit. I mean, they weren't that great but Sing and Nolan are nowhere near the most inept coaches in history. Seems like Alex's supporters try so hard to discredit everyone around him in order to create excuses for him and that's what annoys me the most.
Nolan managed a 7-9 season and Sing managed a 8-8 season with bottom tier QB play yet they're the most inept coaches in history? They're not good, but lets put things in perspective here.
Yes, Smith didn't come in the league with the greatest team, but so did many other QB's who weren't afforded 7 seasons to prove themselves. Frankly, many QB's came into far worse situations and have been discarded without a single excuse made (Jamarcus, Carr, Couch, Campbell, etc)...so why should Alex be treated any differently?
As far as giving Crabtree a break and not Smith. You really think if Crabtree was going into his 6th year averaging 50 catches, 750 yards and 6 TD's a year I'd be cool with him being our #1 receiver?
Frankly, Crabtree has had 2 fairly good seasons. Compare him to the elite receivers in teh league's first 2 seasons and Crabtree is near the top of the list. Alex has never even scratched the surface of being even decent. Skilled position players do not get a 6 year mulligan for poor play. That only happens in San Francisco for whatever reason.