I hope we ae done with the 3-4 expieriment!

LOOK at the top Def's in the NFL... now tell me how many run 3-4? Pitsburg, Baltimore, NE, NYJ, SD, Miami.... its ridiculous how successful the 3-4 is.

The top 4 (and 6 of the top 10) Def's in the NFL run a 34.

the 3-4 is the best part of the team........

(besides Andy Lee)

Originally posted by Niners99:
we have too much talent at LB and too little talent on the defensive line to make that switch.

This is for me the 3-4 4-3 equation. Not sure any more about our LB talent though. Spikes is not getting any younger. And we don't seem to be able to get a consistent pass rush from our OLBs. Dunno.

Originally posted by glorydayz:
We should go back to the 4-3 defense!

This would Walsh Sing & olan completly out of our system, as well as make it easier for rookies coming in to play right away.

Didn't Walsh run a 3-4 in 1981?

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by 49ersfan11:
Are you joking?

Nope!

We haven't gotten any heat on the QB since we switched to the 3-4. Our run defense is okay but the pass defense has been terrible

we were tied for 3rd most sacks in the league last year, so we have been able to generate pass rush. so your statement above is clearly wrong.

this year, we are tied for 16th, so we have faltered a bit. our secondary has had issues and we play a lot of 4 deep zone, so there are always guys open underneath.

Originally posted by verb1der:
3-4 or 4-3...I'm just glad the Manusky experiment is done.

Originally posted by glorydayz:
We should go back to the 4-3 defense!

This would Walsh Sing & olan completly out of our system, as well as make it easier for rookies coming in to play right away.

pass

Originally posted by VA9erfan:

Originally posted by verb1der:
3-4 or 4-3...I'm just glad the Manusky experiment is done.

The defense is rated 14th in yards/game this season, 7th in rushing yards/game, 18th in points against.

Last year we were ranked 4th in points against, 15th in total yards/game and 6th best rushing defense.

Our problems are much worse than manusky. Not sure where all this hate is coming from. The issue seems to me to be less about scheme and more about players, guys like clements were typically in position to make a lot of plays and didn't make them.

[ Edited by alburns on Dec 27, 2010 at 13:48:01 ]

It's not an experiment...more and more teams are going to it...BUT, you need to have a dominant NT and DE's who can both collapse the pocket and stop the run. Justin Smith is by far our best DL...but he can't do it alone. Franklin was a huge disappointment IMHO...and while Sopoaga did make some progress, he still rarely collapses the pocket. When I think of good 3-4 DL's, the Cowboys, Steelers, Chargers, and Packers come to mind. Our DL is nowhere near as good as any of those teams. Improve the DL and you'll see guys like Brooks, Laboy and even Manny get more sacks and hits on the QB. I'd advocate Haralson be replaced...he's been a major disappointment, too. Keep your eye on Thaddeus Gibson, a guy we claimed during the season off waivers from the Steelers. He could become our next really good pass rusher. Obviously, some changes are also necessary in the secondary...Nate either needs to become the SS or be traded. We need a real shutdown CB, so I'm hoping that's the first position we draft next April. There are some real dandies to be drafted. I see Mays as the FS of the future...Goldson's another guy who's been a major disappointment. So, it's not the 3-4 that's to blame...rather, we don't have all the right pieces in place to make it work like it's supposed to.

Originally posted by TMays_isaBEAST23:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by TMays_isaBEAST23:
The reason we don't get any pressure is because we rarely blitz. If you want other 3-4 defenses, they blitz all the time, that's how they get pressure. Manusky believes we get enough pressure with just our 3 rushers, which makes me mad all the time because clearly we don't.

however, usually when we blitz, ahmad brooks will jump offsides so I guess it washes out.

However, when you have Pat Willis and TKO, you need them both on the field. Plus, the way the league is going, 3-4 is the defense you should have. The added speed at linebacker is a must to offset all the speed on offense these days.

Exactly. Manusky is the problem not the 3-4.

Not having any great DBs is the problem. Manusky actually did an okay job of hiding that weakness imo.

This is true, Goldson hurt us this year. After his year last year, I thought he was going to take another step forward. I was, as you can probably tell from my name, pumped about the Taylor Mays pick. I figured with him and Dashon in, we'd have the safeties to cover over the top, and let Nate do what he does best, sit in zone, jump coverages, and take chances.

All the great 3-4 schemes have at least one great safety, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Brandon Merriweather... The problem is we have none.

I think Mays will be a great SS. Goldson is a nightmare in coverage and really should be competing with Mays at SS. Smith makes a better FS imo. I would call him a solid safety though not a spectacular one.

We need a shutdown corner. If we get that Smith and Mays will be good enough.

I think we stay with the 3-4. But we gotta make some changes in personnel (not scheme). Get rid of Parys haralson, and get his replacement in FA. Then we need a LDE(Dallas has some good FA, also that Garay kid in SD would be nice)..

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
It's not an experiment...more and more teams are going to it...BUT, you need to have a dominant NT and DE's who can both collapse the pocket and stop the run. Justin Smith is by far our best DL...but he can't do it alone. Franklin was a huge disappointment IMHO...and while Sopoaga did make some progress, he still rarely collapses the pocket. When I think of good 3-4 DL's, the Cowboys, Steelers, Chargers, and Packers come to mind. Our DL is nowhere near as good as any of those teams. Improve the DL and you'll see guys like Brooks, Laboy and even Manny get more sacks and hits on the QB. I'd advocate Haralson be replaced...he's been a major disappointment, too. Keep your eye on Thaddeus Gibson, a guy we claimed during the season off waivers from the Steelers. He could become our next really good pass rusher. Obviously, some changes are also necessary in the secondary...Nate either needs to become the SS or be traded. We need a real shutdown CB, so I'm hoping that's the first position we draft next April. There are some real dandies to be drafted. I see Mays as the FS of the future...Goldson's another guy who's been a major disappointment. So, it's not the 3-4 that's to blame...rather, we don't have all the right pieces in place to make it work like it's supposed to.

I think Franklin played better towards the end of the year. He definitely could have used training camp. There was a huge dropoff when RJF came in

Upgrade the OLB's and the 3-4 can work.

Lawson and Haralson need to GTFO.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by valrod33:
I think we should stay in it. We just need to get a pass rusher and a a CB


having Takeo SPikes and WIllis in the middle is awesome

Thank you. It's not the scheme that's bad, it's the execution because we DONT HAVE THE PROPER PIECES. All good 3-4 teams have one thing in common -- a good, consistent pass rush. We've ignored the pass rush for years and it's costing us.

Haralson and Brooks are good for depth, but shouldn't be starting. We need a good DeMarcus Ware, Lamar Woodley type of OLB that can bring the heat on every down.

Do that and watch us shoot up the defensive rankings.

So if we don't have the pieces after 6 years of running the 3-4 this speaks to our commitment.

Definitely. I'll be the first to say that we drafted poorly for the 3-4. Nolan was stuck on the idea of drafting "tweeners" and thinking that he and Manusky could just manufacture a pass rush through scheming. It worked sometimes, but often failed because of our lack of a consistent pass rush(er). All of the guys we have starting at OLB are currently number two's at best. I think Haralson and Brooks would make excellent complimentary OLB's, and Brooks has the potential to be a true number one, but he isn't there yet.

Again, don't take my word for it. Check the stats. All the best 3-4 teams rank among the highest in the league in sacks. We don't. And that' why the 3-4 is failing us. I would really like to see us target a top pass rusher in the draft AND in free agency.

In my mind, this should be a higher priority than another corner.

Just my two.

Abrayo just seemed out of shape the whole season...wasn't nearly as quick off the ball. I'm not sure he's worth anything near to what he wants in FA. And, I wouldn't franchise him again, either. NT should be a draft priority...along w/CB. It also wouldn't hurt to draft a beast like Da'Quan Bowers or Nick Fairley to beef up the DL.