I hope we ae done with the 3-4 expieriment!

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by 49ersfan11:
Are you joking?

Nope!

We haven't gotten any heat on the QB since we switched to the 3-4. Our run defense is okay but the pass defense has been terrible

We would have the same problem with the 43 that we have with the 34. No pass rush. We have no pass rushers. Hows the change in scheme gonna change that?

We gave nobody who could play end in a 43, and don't say Smith, he was never a god rusher to begin with and would likely be a T in the 43. Mcdonald is also not a43 end. Maybe Brooks or Haralson, but either would still be deficient imo.

The biggest difference is that we won't be asking players to do things they cannot do. We will no longer be drafting college DE's (Lawson/Haralson) to play OLB. College players will come in with the ability to step in and play a bit faster. We won't be asking college DT's to play DE.

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by valrod33:
I think we should stay in it. We just need to get a pass rusher and a a CB


having Takeo SPikes and WIllis in the middle is awesome

Thank you. It's not the scheme that's bad, it's the execution because we DONT HAVE THE PROPER PIECES. All good 3-4 teams have one thing in common -- a good, consistent pass rush. We've ignored the pass rush for years and it's costing us.

Haralson and Brooks are good for depth, but shouldn't be starting. We need a good DeMarcus Ware, Lamar Woodley type of OLB that can bring the heat on every down.

Do that and watch us shoot up the defensive rankings.

So if we don't have the pieces after 6 years of running the 3-4 this speaks to our commitment.

I like the 3-4 since Willis and Spikes are great sideline to sideline LBs. Sending willlis on more blitzes will be good too. We just need a monster pass rusher, the likes of Matthews or Peppers. We need someone that needs to be double-teamed every single play (besides Justin Smith).

If aubrayo leaves, that may open the door for switching to the 4-3. We do not have good safeties, good pass rushers, and would be missing the anchor at NT...

If they clean house in SD, I'd love to get Ron Rivera in as DC. The Chargers defense was really good this year, and they did it mostly with no-names. I bet he gets some interest for HC jobs, though.

Originally posted by jb49ers80:
If they clean house in SD, I'd love to get Ron Rivera in as DC. The Chargers defense was really good this year, and they did it mostly with no-names. I bet he gets some interest for HC jobs, though.

It's speculated he's a leading candidate for the Panthers head coaching job.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by 49ersfan11:
Are you joking?

Nope!

We haven't gotten any heat on the QB since we switched to the 3-4. Our run defense is okay but the pass defense has been terrible

we need a CB and OLB bad

We keep saying this, even after spending a 1st ound pick on Lawson & $80 million on Clements. So at some point we have to look at the scheme!

Tully Banta Cain couldn't do it here, but he is good with the Pats? It's the scheme.

this, if dick lebeau had been out defensive coorindator we wouldnt have a problem getting pressure

Originally posted by TMays_isaBEAST23:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by TMays_isaBEAST23:
The reason we don't get any pressure is because we rarely blitz. If you want other 3-4 defenses, they blitz all the time, that's how they get pressure. Manusky believes we get enough pressure with just our 3 rushers, which makes me mad all the time because clearly we don't.

however, usually when we blitz, ahmad brooks will jump offsides so I guess it washes out.

However, when you have Pat Willis and TKO, you need them both on the field. Plus, the way the league is going, 3-4 is the defense you should have. The added speed at linebacker is a must to offset all the speed on offense these days.

Exactly. Manusky is the problem not the 3-4.

Not having any great DBs is the problem. Manusky actually did an okay job of hiding that weakness imo.

This is true, Goldson hurt us this year. After his year last year, I thought he was going to take another step forward. I was, as you can probably tell from my name, pumped about the Taylor Mays pick. I figured with him and Dashon in, we'd have the safeties to cover over the top, and let Nate do what he does best, sit in zone, jump coverages, and take chances.

All the great 3-4 schemes have at least one great safety, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Brandon Merriweather... The problem is we have none.

Spencer & Clements looked pretty good in the 4-3 in the begining of thier careers, hell playing in the 4-3 got Clements a $80mill contract with us. What I look at is the lack of speed in the 3-4 (you would think this defense would make us quicker by adding another LB and taking away a fat DL), all teams have to do is identify what OLB is going to rush and throw a screen pass in that direction, we will then lumber in that direction (very slow team). Trick plays work agains us because we can only move forward, whereas the Steelers & Pats can go sideline to sideline. We would be better off drafting two DE's (or use Lawson & PH) grabbing a 4-3 OLB which would be easy and then focus on getting DB's in the draft or free agnency.

Quote:
- If we stay 3-4... we have 2 major problems... (1)no true NT (2)no true 3-4 rush LB

- If we go 4-3... we have 1 major question mark... (1) RE rusher

I say question mark, as while we do have options in Haralson, Brooks, and LaBoy... we can't really say with any degree of certainty if one or any can be effective enough. Obviously, I like the latter option above.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=146460&page=23

"The Defense" Thread

See what we come away with in free agency and the draft and go from there. I'm sick of looking at this piece of sh*t 3-4 too, but we need many of the same pieces in whatever scheme we run. I think what we run will depend on who we bring in as a pass rusher, and maybe more so on who we're able to retain after this season. Who we get in here may not be our 1st choice. Whoever our DC winds up being is going to have to be flexible enough to deal with it.

I have no idea what Manusky's thoughts are about retooling his defense into a 4-3 are, but judging by the style of 3-4 that he runs, I would think he's more of a cover 2 guy anyway. If the pass rusher we land can't stand up and play OLB, then I don't see switching to a 4-3 as a problem for our team. Honestly, if we can't get Manny and TKO back, I think the teams hand will be forced towards making the switch anyway.

On the other hand, get Manusky the LB's he needs re-signed as well as a legitimate pass rusher at ROLB, and I think he could probably make due with the talent we already have under contract in the defensive backfield to make the 3-4 work. Not to say we don't need upgrades at safety and corner, but upgrading those spots before we get a reliable pass rusher in here is putting the cart before the horse IMO.

Lamaar Woodley's the only guy I seen who's up this year with the particular skill set we're looking for, and for all I know he could be off the table already. That means we draft the best player available to fill the need and adjust the scheme accordingly. At least that's how it looks from where I'm sitting.

I agree. We can stop the run on anyone, but we don't any consistent pressure on the QB. With the 3-4, you really have to get the pieces right in order to have a pass rush, such as the true OLBs, and a true NT. We have somewhat of a true NT in Franklin, but both our OLBs suck at pass rushing. Plus, our defense has a bunch of 4-3 guys already (RJF, Soap, McDonald, J.Smith, Brooks, Willis, Spikes). Pretty much everyone on our D is 4-3 ready. We can also draft a good pass rusher in the draft like a DE without having to worry about him having a tough transition to OLB.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I like the 3-4 for us. It's a passing league. We need the extra LB to patrol the short to medium middle.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
God I hope not, Wade Phillips would be a good candidate to fix our 3-4. We're close, we just need a couple more pieces to the puzzle.

Wade Phillips would be great. Do the Bengals run a 3-4? Because Marvin Lewis would also be nice.

Also, we definitely need a CB and OLB, but we also really need a S IMO.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by 49ersfan11:
Are you joking?

Nope!

We haven't gotten any heat on the QB since we switched to the 3-4. Our run defense is okay but the pass defense has been terrible

we need a CB and OLB bad

We keep saying this, even after spending a 1st ound pick on Lawson & $80 million on Clements. So at some point we have to look at the scheme!

Tully Banta Cain couldn't do it here, but he is good with the Pats? It's the scheme.

Lawson will not be that guy....we we need to go after a new one.

Nate was good but he is older, has lost a step, and is about to cost a fortune to keep.

Originally posted by verb1der:
3-4 or 4-3...I'm just glad the Manusky experiment is done.

that clown, sing and the QBs f****d my bets!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we have too much talent at LB and too little talent on the defensive line to make that switch.