How much of this season is on our O-Line?

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Nick, I read your chart, and you are correct if you are talking about run blocking. But when it comes to pass protection, the same chart says we are 29th, almost last. And it only looks at sack %. When you consider the effects of pressure in terms of hurried and pressured throws, we clearly are about the worst. Pressure clearly affects QB performance. If it did not, teams wouldn't bother to rush the passer. Why do we keep saying we need a pass rusher?

Clearly the OL has been the weak link this season. All the experts predicted the 49ers would struggle mightily in the first half of the season due to the inexperience of the rookies. Most forecasts predicted 2-4 or 1-5. Then Heitmann goes down and things get worse. Things got even worse yet when Rachal continued his poor play. Now there is still no continuity and it is a major reason the team showed so poorly against TB and San Diego. Those games may not have been winnable anyway but when you get dominated on the OL, you are going to lose more than you win.

"The game is won or lost in the trenches..."

so, much better OL in 2011?

Originally posted by excelsior:
Nick, I read your chart, and you are correct if you are talking about run blocking. But when it comes to pass protection, the same chart says we are 29th, almost last. And it only looks at sack %. When you consider the effects of pressure in terms of hurried and pressured throws, we clearly are about the worst. Pressure clearly affects QB performance. If it did not, teams wouldn't bother to rush the passer. Why do we keep saying we need a pass rusher?

yes, but our line was built to be elite run-blockers, and we've underperformed at that.

10% O Line

90% Alex/Dingleberry

On the O-Line comment. (Don't know why this is revolving around McNabb) please see the 1982 Redskins who drafted 2 guards and started a rookie FA. There were a few good players in that group. I think you can't blame the O-line. They have played well at times.

I chalk this season up to coaching/management. Plain and simple. We did not do the things necessary to win games when we needed to. We have plenty of talent on this team but we still struggle to find our identity. I believe that is because the HC is trying to force an identity that is not there.

I agree with others who think Sing is gone. Unless he has a renaisance after he blunders the team into the playoffs and changes his approach from how he thinks football should be played based on his personal experience to how this team should play football based on its talent, then he should be gone in the offseason. We should already be lining up potential candidates.

For the record I'd rather go with an up and comer as a HC than a retread. No HC has EVER gone on to a SB with a second team. So I'm not interested in Cower or Gruden.

Also McNabb would be a colossal waste of time. He's old, out of shape, and he proved he doesn't adapt well to life without Reid. Even in a west coast offense. Lord knows Alex isn't the answer but neither is McNabb.

Originally posted by WestCoast:
10% O Line

90% Alex/Dingleberry

It all starts in the trench's!!! 40% Oline, 40% DINGLEBERRY, 20% Alex, for being a p***y!

Nick, this is all on BM, bigmike. He doesn't know how to coach OL, or DL, or CBs, or RBs, or TEs, or QBs, or DEs, or CBs, or S, or punter, or K.O. or ST or OC or DC. In fact he knows how to coach LBs, and damn well. But that is it man. Look at bellichek tonite, look at our former OC mike mccarthy tonite. Both those guys are shining examples of how to do it. Both can coach anything. We have lost this season becasue some kid born with a golden spoon in his mouth wanted a HOF LB to be his HC. With no experience except as LB coach. there is nobody to blame here but the tool we have as HC, BM, and the littler tool we have as president, jed. We have to get a HOFO here to have just one adult in management, and whose presence would keep jed or dada from screwing this once franchise up any more. Enough is enough. Hiring boneheads like ericson, noln, BM, has to stop. Stop it with a head of football ops, and parcells is supposedly available.

Oh and for you guys who are talking about mcNabb, c'mon, we are going to have to get lucky and maybe trade for colt mccoy, or draft our own QB. But mcNabb? That has to be a joke. We need someone on the way up, not the way down. And why did flynn for GB look so good tonite? Because he has a terrific coach, that's why. Put all of this on el bobo, BM or as some like, bowel movement mike...the guy who keeps laying green steamers on our green carpet, and "still is puzzled as to what went wrong". Couldn't be that the HC is a complete incompetent lame, a tool, and completely in over his head , could it?

If we should back into the playoffs i will not watch that embarrassment, and in truth, the 9ers should just send in a forefiture notice. We stink, and it starts at the HC, bubba. Without a HOFO, we are going to end up there again...with another crappy HC.

I see plays where some of the elite QB's in the league, and I'm thinkin' Tom Brady, sit back in the pocket for hours, doin' their email, pickin' their noses, and finally throw a completion to someone who is by now wide open. Our QB has never had that luxury. Alex and Troy are both adept at avoiding sacks because they have to be. The O-line is a big component of our failure this year, but it all goes back to coaching and ownership.

Originally posted by nickbradley:
We all want to blame Sing, but how much of this season is on:

1. starting two Rookies on the O-line (can't think of a team that ever had success doing that)

2. losing starting center for the season

3. losing starting left tackle for most of season

With a healthy, experienced offensive line in 2011, we may just very well dominate people up front, regardless of who is HC and who is at QB. I expect Anthony Davis to be much better next year, and Iupati will probably be a pro bowler next year (bank on it).

Our O-line was dominated against KC and Tampa, I don't think we'll lose in the trenches like that in 2011.

Due to those factors, I expect Singletary to be back in 2011 IF we win our remaining two games, regardless of whether we make the playoffs or not...although we will probably make the playoffs if we win our two remaining games (highly unlikely that SEA beats Tampa AND

It was expected that the O-line would struggle. However, there are other areas where Sing could've helped the team and chose not to. Our struggles go far beyond the struggles of Anthony Davis. Singletary has an archaic offensive philosophy. Failed to effectively use players. Tried to make Jimmy Raye the scapegoat for the offensive struggles (granted, Jimmy Raye was TERRIBLE, but it was Sing's philosophy that held this team back). We would need an NFC Championship appearance for me to even consider wanting him back. Hopefully the Yorks take the same stance.

Originally posted by nickbradley:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Nick, I read your chart, and you are correct if you are talking about run blocking. But when it comes to pass protection, the same chart says we are 29th, almost last. And it only looks at sack %. When you consider the effects of pressure in terms of hurried and pressured throws, we clearly are about the worst. Pressure clearly affects QB performance. If it did not, teams wouldn't bother to rush the passer. Why do we keep saying we need a pass rusher?

Clearly the OL has been the weak link this season. All the experts predicted the 49ers would struggle mightily in the first half of the season due to the inexperience of the rookies. Most forecasts predicted 2-4 or 1-5. Then Heitmann goes down and things get worse. Things got even worse yet when Rachal continued his poor play. Now there is still no continuity and it is a major reason the team showed so poorly against TB and San Diego. Those games may not have been winnable anyway but when you get dominated on the OL, you are going to lose more than you win.

"The game is won or lost in the trenches..."

so, much better OL in 2011?

Better. I don't know how much better. That will be up to how well the new coach and staff can coach them up.

We have seen Iupati progress quite nicely. He should be fine.

Davis has done well with speed rushers. His agility serves him well. If he hits the weights this off-season and builds strength, he should be able to handle power rushes better. He is only 21. He will naturally gain more strength in the next two years. He may not hit his peak until 2012 season but he should be a good one.

That leaves three question marks.

? Baas was a pleasant surprise but that is not to say he is as good as a playoff team needs. Experience making calls will help but he still needs to improve. Center is by no means settled. Baas may not even stay. He will be out of contract.

? Can Staley return to pre-injury form? If not, who plays there? Moving Davis only means they have to draft at RT or FA and I am not crazy about any of the FA options.

? What to do at RG. Rachal hasn't shown much progress. Very inconsistent. Perhaps a better scheme and coaching but they MUST solve that need for 2011.

So 2/5s of the line look good. That leaves 3/5s with question marks. Will better coaching and schemes solve all of it? I don't think so. They still need to invest in a RG.

We all would like to think it will be better in 2011 but with this coaching staff and its inadequacies, it is foolish to judge any player after this year. I want to see a legit HC come in and make the calls. I am willing to live with anything a solid coach like Gruden or Billick would make. They have been through it all and know what they need. (I don't think Holmgren is in the mix as HC)

My central thought is that given the lack of, or very slow development of most of the draftees brought here in the last 5 or 6 years, it would be foolish to make final judgements on very many players. I see major holes in the roster that must be filled but there are other young players that have not met expectations or potential and I lay that on poor coaching. I suspect this team has operated at about 60% of its potential all season long, due primarily to poor coaching.

just about the entire season. I wasn't really expecting to much of this season anyway. I knew with 2 rookie lineman it would be a learning process. I just hoped that by this part of the season they would be playing a lot better than they did against SD. *not trying to turn this into an Alex Smith thread* All Alex needs is time to actually throw the ball. You can take any QB in the league and give them the same amount of time Alex Smith gets and you will get the same results (minus maybe Vick because he will just take off running.)

Originally posted by backontop:
just about the entire season. I wasn't really expecting to much of this season anyway. I knew with 2 rookie lineman it would be a learning process. I just hoped that by this part of the season they would be playing a lot better than they did against SD. *not trying to turn this into an Alex Smith thread* All Alex needs is time to actually throw the ball. You can take any QB in the league and give them the same amount of time Alex Smith gets and you will get the same results (minus maybe Vick because he will just take off running.)

I am too upset over the SD game. They have an outstanding defense at all three levels and Vincent Jackson is a mismatch for all but the very best DBs in the league. That game (and the Tampa Bay game) is a good example of why the OL MUST improve if the team is to win. They were manhandled by a superior DL in both games. Not much a team can do when the lose the trenches.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by backontop:
just about the entire season. I wasn't really expecting to much of this season anyway. I knew with 2 rookie lineman it would be a learning process. I just hoped that by this part of the season they would be playing a lot better than they did against SD. *not trying to turn this into an Alex Smith thread* All Alex needs is time to actually throw the ball. You can take any QB in the league and give them the same amount of time Alex Smith gets and you will get the same results (minus maybe Vick because he will just take off running.)

I am too upset over the SD game. They have an outstanding defense at all three levels and Vincent Jackson is a mismatch for all but the very best DBs in the league. That game (and the Tampa Bay game) is a good example of why the OL MUST improve if the team is to win. They were manhandled by a superior DL in both games. Not much a team can do when the lose the trenches.

Tampa the OLine just played like s**t! The Bucs DLine is not a superior line. They only had 8 sacks the entire season up until they played us. Then they got a free 6 sacks to add to their list.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by backontop:
just about the entire season. I wasn't really expecting to much of this season anyway. I knew with 2 rookie lineman it would be a learning process. I just hoped that by this part of the season they would be playing a lot better than they did against SD. *not trying to turn this into an Alex Smith thread* All Alex needs is time to actually throw the ball. You can take any QB in the league and give them the same amount of time Alex Smith gets and you will get the same results (minus maybe Vick because he will just take off running.)

I am too upset over the SD game. They have an outstanding defense at all three levels and Vincent Jackson is a mismatch for all but the very best DBs in the league. That game (and the Tampa Bay game) is a good example of why the OL MUST improve if the team is to win. They were manhandled by a superior DL in both games. Not much a team can do when the lose the trenches.

Tampa the OLine just played like s**t! The Bucs DLine is not a superior line. They only had 8 sacks the entire season up until they played us. Then they got a free 6 sacks to add to their list.

TB was bigger and much more physical than SF. They just stuffed the kids like they were rag dolls.

with 2 rookies and a s**t for brains coach and no good oc this oline was bound to struggle, give this oline a real hc and oc and they'll be good. i have a hard time believing an oline built with 3 1st rders and 2 2nds can be disgustingly bad except rachel, dude flat out sucks and is a puss

Originally posted by VA49er:
On the O-Line comment. (Don't know why this is revolving around McNabb) please see the 1982 Redskins who drafted 2 guards and started a rookie FA. There were a few good players in that group. I think you can't blame the O-line. They have played well at times.

I chalk this season up to coaching/management. Plain and simple. We did not do the things necessary to win games when we needed to. We have plenty of talent on this team but we still struggle to find our identity. I believe that is because the HC is trying to force an identity that is not there.

I agree with others who think Sing is gone. Unless he has a renaisance after he blunders the team into the playoffs and changes his approach from how he thinks football should be played based on his personal experience to how this team should play football based on its talent, then he should be gone in the offseason. We should already be lining up potential candidates.

For the record I'd rather go with an up and comer as a HC than a retread. No HC has EVER gone on to a SB with a second team. So I'm not interested in Cower or Gruden.

Also McNabb would be a colossal waste of time. He's old, out of shape, and he proved he doesn't adapt well to life without Reid. Even in a west coast offense. Lord knows Alex isn't the answer but neither is McNabb.

Mike Holmgren made it to the Super Bowl with Green Bay and The Seahawks. I know he didn't win with both teams and maybe thats what you meant but he did make it. I dont know if there are others and this isnt my cry for Holmgren as coach, although it does have a nice ring to it. I am willing to have a proven assistant that is highly revered in the league as you mentioned. Or a winner from a past team. Anybody with the knowledge, passion, and work ethic it takes to create winners. With a good developing staff behind him.

I think with certain teams there are football philosophy's that transcend time and coaches. Maybe it is the football gods but offensive minded head coaching is the fit for SF. These defensive HC's have run their course. End of expirement. Get a damn genius over here to clean up the mess.