Hire a GM now?

Originally posted by Rsrkshn:


Lol!. . . if he actually is, I would shy away from hiring him if only because he totally whiffed on understanding or giving due consideration to the points in Wodwo's original post.

Did you actually read Wodwo's last response to their exchange? Be honest.

IMO, a very good and thoughtful first thread BTW.

I agree with the notion that GM and coaching duties need to be separated. Two ways to go:

1. Hire the HC first and have him select the GM he would like to work with; or

2. Hire a GM and have him select the HC.

I prefer the second approach.

The 49ers experienced the best, and worst, results using the first approach. Walsh brought in his own GM and so did Nolan.

If one wanted to follow the second approach, there is one obvious fellow that's available to help: Bill Parcells. It has been said that he wouldn't come and the York's would put out the bucks for him anyway. I sense those sentiments are accurate. But you never know. Ask.

Mike lombardi has been mentioned. Could be an excellent choice. i don't think that he would be too expensive. Just because he hasn't a high public profile like the Parcells' or Holmgren's.

I'm sure that there are probably others. I don't agree that hiring a competent GM would be prohibitably expensive. One of the most successful GM/HC combos out there are in Atlanta. Two relative unknowns (to outsiders) when hired and therefore not commanding astronomical retainers. We could do well to follow their approach.

If the Niners decide on the "GM first", identifying and hiring one now would give the organization a head start. An excellent point which Wodwo makes and is the impetus behind his thread.

If you decide on the "HC first" approach, the you probably have to wait until the end of the season.

If Jed is trying to emulate his uncle Eddie to the tee, he could try building a heirarcy around the Stanford coach. Eddie was looking pretty much like a failure until he lucked into Walsh. Maybe Jed could do the same. Walsh had a heck of a lot more NFL work experience than Harbaugh though. But it does seem that Harbaugh has NFL pedigree.

I still believe that it makes more sense to follow the "GM first" approach.

I concur with the points you made re Jed's ego. I would elude to Jed's lack of experience in making these kinds of decisions here also.

All I can say is... Thank you.

Originally posted by Wodwo:
Hellooooooooo everybody! This is my first thread! Yay for me!

So, I've been thinking about the situation we're in right now. We all know what's up, plenty of discussion about it. Singletary is not likely to be Head Coach next year... if he even makes it that far. If he doesn't make it until the end of the season, we all know the list of scenarios and the pros and cons of each. It's a bummer of a situation.

Anyway, this got me thinking about what we're going to do next season. I've read a bunch of articles, looked at the resumes of a bunch of candidates, etc....

Then I read Matt Maiocco's recent article about coaching issues and he brought up a good point about the possibility of a truncated 2011 offseason. This is a major concern of mine because I do not see the CBA situation being resolved quickly. If that is the case, Maiocco brought up another great point that a new coaching staff may only have a couple weeks to prepare for the regular season. This would obviously cause numerous problems, the largest of which is that it may be difficult to convince a new coach to take on that situation.

So, my question to everyone is this:

Why don't we hire a true General Manager now?

Here's my reasoning behind the query:

At the moment we have what is essentially an interim General Manager. Jed York obviously likes the structure that he has in place because it gives him power and makes every else in the front office his peons. The current front office is basically like a conglomerate of many individual positions each with one of the responsibilities that a full General Manager would have with Jed at the top as President & CEO. This basically makes Jed a useless waste of space in a suit who is pretending to be managing a football team, when in fact he is just making the stupid decisions about what Head Coach we hire while everyone else does all the actual work. So, that's the current system in as small a nutshell as I could fit it.

The current situation is similar to the one we had before Scott McCloughan and the organization had a "mutual parting". Scott's job seems to have just been split up between two other people as far as I can tell. I believe that this was announced as the permanent solution, but I still view it as a kind of "interim" GM... conglomerate thingy.

Paraag Marathe as we all know is supposed to be the "contract guy" and his position is "Executive Vice President, Football & Business Operations". I'm not so certain what his duties are... there are things that make you wonder how much power he actually has. I'll leave that for another discussion.

Trent Baalke is the "Vice President of Player Personnel", which is really just another way to say GM, as this is what the media and fans consider most important. The guy who decides what players are signed and drafted.

Lal Heneghan is the "Executive Vice President, Football Administration". Now, as I understand it, this is the guy who normally handles contract negotiations and salary cap. (So, what exactly does Paraag do again?) My understanding is that Lal and Trent basically split Scott's duties. I could be way off base on this, correct me if I'm wrong.

In my opinion, this structure is complete garbage. It needs to be tossed in the bin and taken to the landfill. If this organization is to thrive again, a real experienced football mind needs to be brought in and given control of all of these aspects of the front office. Jed needs to put his ego aside and bring in someone who actually knows what they are doing... because they've done it before with success. Who knows, maybe Jed will actually learn a thing or two and after Jed inherits the team, our ownership might actually be football Savvy.

So, that brings me back to the point that I wanted to make with this thread. Considering our current Head Coaching situation and the possibility of a truncated offseason, would it be a good idea to find the guy for the job right now?

My reasoning is that if we bring in someone who is experienced as a Head Coach, understands schemes on both sides of the ball, can analyze players and assistant coaches, and knows how to run a football organization, we can get a head start on the process of planning for next season. As far as I understand it, the GM at this point is mostly focused on contract negotiations and college scouting. We have the guys in place to do that already and they aren't bad at what they do, we just need someone to bring it all together to form the bigger picture. Right now, that guy is Jed York. He has no clue what he's doing. He needs to bring in help as soon as possible so that we are not left in the dust by all the other teams with established coaching staffs next season.

An experienced knowledgeable GM could figure out what players are worth keeping, what players to target in the offseason, what schemes fit our personnel best, and what coaches will be available to best implement those schemes.

So? Anyone think this is a viable option? Other than Jed's ego is there anything standing in the way of this idea being a good one?

If it sounds like a good idea, who might be a good candidate?

I'm at a loss there... I'm having a hard time remembering who's available. I'll do some more research on a candidate if anyone thinks it's a good idea.

Oh... and sorry for the length. My fingers don't know when to stop.

If you read it... thanks.

I think everyone is over-estimating the fact that Jed makes all the decisions on his own without seeking advice. My belief is that Uncle E. is in the background whispering in Jed's ear. I have a feeling Jed will get it right this time when choosing the next coach.

Originally posted by darkknight49:
I'm sure jed would want a strong GM candidate, but I also understand their apprehension after the Donahue debacle.

This is a fair point. Makes me look at things from the other side of the coin.

Well said.

I think whatever the Niners do--they don't need jed or Paarage involved in the football side of the business---ie what kind of offense and defense to run and what players to draft/sign to accomplish the plan.

On the other hand this team has to decide what kind of team they want to emulate as far as a football model---the strong coach model or the strong GM model or the collaborative approach.

To do that hopefully they are planning ahead right now on what they want , whom they want to consider for each position and how it would all work out--the relationship between the HC and a GM.

The key is hiring the right people----which is the Niners ownerships biggest weakness---they have had the Pats model with Nolan---fail---tried it again with Singletary---fail.

They tried the Colts model with Donahue--fail.

I would love jim Harbuagh as my top choice for head coach--but I don't know harbaughs views on a strong GM --maybe he wouldn't like that.

The ownership needs to do their homework and not be clueless or caught offguard.

I love to type---lol bye

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by Wodwo:

-- A lot of stuff --

1. Who is available. You're right, I missed this. In my defense it was buried between multiple preambles and tangents. In any case, I did address the question indirectly.
As for broadcasters, I assume they have contracts. In any case, to my knowledge it has never happened before with a broadcaster, so we can conclude that it's probably not an option. As for people who have taken time off, sure, they exist, but "big name/talent" people who are taking time off don't want mid-season jobs. Why would they? Their bargaining power is MUCH higher during the offseason when people are competing for their services.


2. The several sentences in which you gave your reasoning -- I did see these. I didn't think they made sense given the parameters that we've already been discussing (I thought my post gave a multitude of satisfactory answers that outweighed answering these smaller questions). In any case, I'll go through them.

You want:

* An experienced football coach (who goes unnamed but is currently unemployed and does not have enough options to be better off waiting for the offseason) to become our GM (despite presumably not having any experience as a GM), but you don't know who this person is. Yeah, okay. I got it, but it's preposterous.

* This dream person who probably doesn't exist and will magically be successful in a role he previously hasn't inhabited to give us a "head start" on planning for next season. How? Why? Nobody knows what's happening next year. The entire NFL is essentially on hold until the CBA is worked out. What exactly will this person be doing that his subordinates (who you want to keep) can't be doing right now? If he is going to be deciding which players to keep and which players to target, don't you think he might want to know who our coach will be and which players fit the schemes we'll be using? Oh yeah, he absolutely needs to know that, but he can't, because he can't hire a coach until the offseason. So assuming we can find this fantasy person, what exactly is he going to be doing again?

* A new GM to make the decisions in the final third of this season so Jed York can't. Which decisions? You have an untested assumption running throughout your post that Jed York is a young Al Davis when we have absolutely no evidence of this whatsoever. I chose to ignore it because it's baseless. I've addressed it now. The assumption might make you feel better about our failures, but it's baseless.

* A new GM to hire the new coach. It's all just silly by this point. This former head coach who hasn't been a GM and is currently out of football will be hiring our new head coach. What? You really think having this person installed already would increase our chances with any of the "big ticket" coaches? You can instantly cross every single big name coach off the list (Gruden, Cower, Harbaugh, et al.) as well as the big name GMs (Holmgren) as none of them are going to cede power to this person. They ALL have more bargaining power than to become a part of this mess. The big name coaches probably want total control, and at the VERY LEAST they'll want their input on how the front office is setup, not the other way around.

What you're proposing is quite simply not how this works, and for good reason, I might add.

In any case, the purpose of a thread is to create conversation, which this thread has.

Congrats (non smart @ss) on the first post.

1. I totally own my problem with rambling. I do it all the time and apologize. You get an apology, too. Sorry I rambled so much.

2. You didn't read my post.

Originally posted by obx49:

I think everyone is over-estimating the fact that Jed makes all the decisions on his own without seeking advice. My belief is that Uncle E. is in the background whispering in Jed's ear. I have a feeling Jed will get it right this time when choosing the next coach.

I hope you're right.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by Wodwo:

-- A lot of stuff --

1. Who is available. You're right, I missed this. In my defense it was buried between multiple preambles and tangents. In any case, I did address the question indirectly.
As for broadcasters, I assume they have contracts. In any case, to my knowledge it has never happened before with a broadcaster, so we can conclude that it's probably not an option. As for people who have taken time off, sure, they exist, but "big name/talent" people who are taking time off don't want mid-season jobs. Why would they? Their bargaining power is MUCH higher during the offseason when people are competing for their services.


2. The several sentences in which you gave your reasoning -- I did see these. I didn't think they made sense given the parameters that we've already been discussing (I thought my post gave a multitude of satisfactory answers that outweighed answering these smaller questions). In any case, I'll go through them.

You want:

* An experienced football coach (who goes unnamed but is currently unemployed and does not have enough options to be better off waiting for the offseason) to become our GM (despite presumably not having any experience as a GM), but you don't know who this person is. Yeah, okay. I got it, but it's preposterous.

* This dream person who probably doesn't exist and will magically be successful in a role he previously hasn't inhabited to give us a "head start" on planning for next season. How? Why? Nobody knows what's happening next year. The entire NFL is essentially on hold until the CBA is worked out. What exactly will this person be doing that his subordinates (who you want to keep) can't be doing right now? If he is going to be deciding which players to keep and which players to target, don't you think he might want to know who our coach will be and which players fit the schemes we'll be using? Oh yeah, he absolutely needs to know that, but he can't, because he can't hire a coach until the offseason. So assuming we can find this fantasy person, what exactly is he going to be doing again?

* A new GM to make the decisions in the final third of this season so Jed York can't. Which decisions? You have an untested assumption running throughout your post that Jed York is a young Al Davis when we have absolutely no evidence of this whatsoever. I chose to ignore it because it's baseless. I've addressed it now. The assumption might make you feel better about our failures, but it's baseless.

* A new GM to hire the new coach. It's all just silly by this point. This former head coach who hasn't been a GM and is currently out of football will be hiring our new head coach. What? You really think having this person installed already would increase our chances with any of the "big ticket" coaches? You can instantly cross every single big name coach off the list (Gruden, Cower, Harbaugh, et al.) as well as the big name GMs (Holmgren) as none of them are going to cede power to this person. They ALL have more bargaining power than to become a part of this mess. The big name coaches probably want total control, and at the VERY LEAST they'll want their input on how the front office is setup, not the other way around.

What you're proposing is quite simply not how this works, and for good reason, I might add.

In any case, the purpose of a thread is to create conversation, which this thread has.

Congrats (non smart @ss) on the first post.

1. I totally own my problem with rambling. I do it all the time and apologize. You get an apology, too. Sorry I rambled so much.

2. You didn't read my post.

most of the time nobody does, or maybe half ways...

Originally posted by fly15:

Originally posted by Wodwo:


1. I totally own my problem with rambling. I do it all the time and apologize. You get an apology, too. Sorry I rambled so much.

2. You didn't read my post.

most of the time nobody does, or maybe half ways...

Well, this time you read the whole thing.

[ Edited by Wodwo on Nov 24, 2010 at 15:01:22 ]

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by fly15:

Originally posted by Wodwo:


1. I totally own my problem with rambling. I do it all the time and apologize. You get an apology, too. Sorry I rambled so much.

2. You didn't read my post.

most of the time nobody does, or maybe half ways...

Well, this time you read the whole thing.

Originally posted by fly15:

Have I told you lately that I love you?

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by fly15:

Have I told you lately that I love you?

I thought you love susweel....

Wodwo, I have read your post thoroughly so don't get all worked up!

And I agree with your thoughts. I just don't see Jed stepping aside and giving the keys to someone else.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Absolutely.

I'm totally in favor of the traditional GM role for the 49ers (that's what a super GM is ala Scott Pioli or Ron Wolf back in the day). I would love to see that person be #2 in the pecking order under Jed with Praag working for him.

I agree that's been the whole problem with the 49ers split-brain approach to football; have someone run the football side while the financial side was answerable to Praag. It was good for getting players signed, but making the best personnel decisions? Naw not in the least bit consistent.

However, that's not to say a Super Coach can't work either. I think in our case we've had two super coaches with no prior experiencing being head coaches in the league so all the folks they brought in weren't as strong as they could have been.

Yay!

I like it when I don't feel crazy. It happens so rarely.

I just like the chances of Super GM finding Super Under the Radar Coach more than Jed getting us a real Super Coach.

Doesn't really matter, though. So not gonna happen.

Our current predicament is as simple and as complicated as this:

The Top 4 positions in the organization are filled with people who are inexperienced and never held the position they did prior to this

Jed
Trent -- De Facto GM
Sing
Mike Johnson

Originally posted by verb1der:
Wodwo, I have read your post thoroughly so don't get all worked up!

And I agree with your thoughts. I just don't see Jed stepping aside and giving the keys to someone else.

I'm not worked up.

Am I?

Now I'm not so sure... what are you trying to say.

Yeah, I don't see it happening, either.

I just had a thought and I wanted to see if it was crazy. Everybody is talking about the Head Coaches.... I think it's an interesting question if it would be more likely to work bringing in an outside GM in the middle of the season as opposed to a Head Coach.

There's just so much stuff involved in football and it all has such an impact on a team.

I've been awake for 24 hours right now.