Alex's Injury?

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Crabtree's problem is Alex Smith.

So the big practice field dust up between Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree was over Alex Smith?




Multiple writers reported that the entire team applauded the discipline Davis handed down. They could see that Crabtree was dogging it.

The kid hasn't learned how to be a pro yet. He STILL cuts off patterns and does not run out plays if the ball is not coming to him. All of that stuff MUST happen before he will be a reliable receiver...or does Alex have to come over and run the pattern also?

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Crabtree's problem is Alex Smith.

So the big practice field dust up between Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree was over Alex Smith?




Multiple writers reported that the entire team applauded the discipline Davis handed down. They could see that Crabtree was dogging it.

The kid hasn't learned how to be a pro yet. He STILL cuts off patterns and does not run out plays if the ball is not coming to him. All of that stuff MUST happen before he will be a reliable receiver...or does Alex have to come over and run the pattern also?

Yet, when Alex gets him involved in the pass game, Crabtree looks like a stud. As least you can excuse Crabtree's mistakes. He's still a young receiver learning the ropes with flashes of brilliance. Alex is a 6 year veteran learning the ropes with flashes of brilliance. You dont see a problem with that comparison ?

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:


Ok. Let's assume you're right. Let's look at it from the opposite end. How many long/intermediate passes has this guy completed if you take out the check down to Gore? As far as I can remember he has had one long pass to Davis and one to Ginn.

The point is not to say, oh remember this set of bad/good passes. But when you take the collective body of work he is far too inconsistent to be considered a starting QB.

This is an easy stat to find if you know where to look. These statistics are arranged by where the ball was thrown, not considering yards after catch. Gore has only caught passes from behind the line and 1-10 yards out.

Passes completed:

Behind line: 38

1-10 yards: 78

11-20 yards: 21

21-30 yards: 4

31-40 yards: 2

I thought it might be amusing to compare these statistics with Aaron Rodgers... for obvious reasons.

Behind line: 31

1-10 yards: 74

11-20 yards: 35

21-30 yards: 5

31-40 yards: 4

41+ yards: 1

Just as aside, I'll give Smith's completions by position:

Running Backs: 43

Tight Ends: 44

Wide Receivers: 61

Make what you will of these stats.

Personally, I've never been impressed by Smith's deep passes.

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Crabtree's problem is Alex Smith.

So the big practice field dust up between Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree was over Alex Smith?




Multiple writers reported that the entire team applauded the discipline Davis handed down. They could see that Crabtree was dogging it.

The kid hasn't learned how to be a pro yet. He STILL cuts off patterns and does not run out plays if the ball is not coming to him. All of that stuff MUST happen before he will be a reliable receiver...or does Alex have to come over and run the pattern also?

Yet, when Alex gets him involved in the pass game, Crabtree looks like a stud. As least you can excuse Crabtree's mistakes. He's still a young receiver learning the ropes with flashes of brilliance. Alex is a 6 year veteran learning the ropes with flashes of brilliance. You dont see a problem with that comparison ?

so the lack of involvement of Crabtree in the first three games is Alex's fault?

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Crabtree's problem is Alex Smith.

So the big practice field dust up between Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree was over Alex Smith?




Multiple writers reported that the entire team applauded the discipline Davis handed down. They could see that Crabtree was dogging it.

The kid hasn't learned how to be a pro yet. He STILL cuts off patterns and does not run out plays if the ball is not coming to him. All of that stuff MUST happen before he will be a reliable receiver...or does Alex have to come over and run the pattern also?

Yet, when Alex gets him involved in the pass game, Crabtree looks like a stud. As least you can excuse Crabtree's mistakes. He's still a young receiver learning the ropes with flashes of brilliance. Alex is a 6 year veteran learning the ropes with flashes of brilliance. You dont see a problem with that comparison ?

so the lack of involvement of Crabtree in the first three games is Alex's fault?

you think the gameplan was designed to go AGAINST Crabtree ?

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Yet, when Alex gets him involved in the pass game, Crabtree looks like a stud. As least you can excuse Crabtree's mistakes. He's still a young receiver learning the ropes with flashes of brilliance. Alex is a 6 year veteran learning the ropes with flashes of brilliance. You dont see a problem with that comparison ?

I don't know why I'm bothering, you've obviously made up your mind, but what the hell, eh?

Targets vs. receptions for Crabtree by week:

Week 1: Targets 8 Receptions 2

Week 2: Targets 3 Receptions 1

Week 3: Targets 8 Receptions 3

Week 4: Targets 6 Receptions 5

Week 5: Targets 14 Receptions 9

Week 6: Targets 6 Receptions 4

Week 7: Targets 5 Receptions 4

With the exceptions of week 2 and 4, Crabtree has been targeted as much or more than any other WR on the team. Weeks 1 and 3 are his second highest in terms of targets. However, they were also his lowest in terms of target/completion ratio.

Crabtree has also been targeted more than any other WR on the team.

Targets by player:

Frank Gore: 58

Vernon Davis: 52

Michael Crabtree: 50

It's not like Smith isn't trying to get him the ball. Crabtree just had a rough start to the season. He didn't help himself or Smith.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:


Ok. Let's assume you're right. Let's look at it from the opposite end. How many long/intermediate passes has this guy completed if you take out the check down to Gore? As far as I can remember he has had one long pass to Davis and one to Ginn.

The point is not to say, oh remember this set of bad/good passes. But when you take the collective body of work he is far too inconsistent to be considered a starting QB.

This is an easy stat to find if you know where to look. These statistics are arranged by where the ball was thrown, not considering yards after catch. Gore has only caught passes from behind the line and 1-10 yards out.

Passes completed:

Behind line: 38

1-10 yards: 78

11-20 yards: 21

21-30 yards: 4

31-40 yards: 2

I thought it might be amusing to compare these statistics with Aaron Rodgers... for obvious reasons.

Behind line: 31

1-10 yards: 74

11-20 yards: 35

21-30 yards: 5

31-40 yards: 4

41+ yards: 1

Just as aside, I'll give Smith's completions by position:

Running Backs: 43

Tight Ends: 44

Wide Receivers: 61

Make what you will of these stats.

Personally, I've never been impressed by Smith's deep passes.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

The point is not to say, oh remember this set of bad/good passes. But when you take the collective body of work he is far too inconsistent to be considered a starting QB.

Just trying to get some of you to think,

"well, gee.... how come?"

rather than just simply uttering, "duh, cuz he sucks."

... but there are some of us that see that no consistent good play can be conjured up until the other 10 players on offense do their jobs with any level of competency. When that day occurs... and he still can't do his job? That will be the day the rest of us say, "yeah, okay... he just sucks."

For the record, I dont think he sucks like a vast majority of the fan base. I think he is OK. He's like the Brandon Lloyd of QBs. Under the right system he could probably put up some good numbers, occassionally good for a nice play, more of a system guy than a stand alone talent and will never be mistaken for elite at his position.

I would love for the Niners to bring back the WCO which would be the worst possible offense for Smith.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

The point is not to say, oh remember this set of bad/good passes. But when you take the collective body of work he is far too inconsistent to be considered a starting QB.

Just trying to get some of you to think,

"well, gee.... how come?"

rather than just simply uttering, "duh, cuz he sucks."

... but there are some of us that see that no consistent good play can be conjured up until the other 10 players on offense do their jobs with any level of competency. When that day occurs... and he still can't do his job? That will be the day the rest of us say, "yeah, okay... he just sucks."

For the record, I dont think he sucks like a vast majority of the fan base. I think he is OK. He's like the Brandon Lloyd of QBs. Under the right system he could probably put up some good numbers, occassionally good for a nice play, more of a system guy than a stand alone talent and will never be mistaken for elite at his position.

I would love for the Niners to bring back the WCO which would be the worst possible offense for Smith.

Yeah, I hear you. I don't think he's amazing top 5 talent. I do think he can be a steady top 10-12-ish QB though. He's just gonna need fairly steady play and familiarity around him to make that happen. He's not a guy that can play well (aside from short stretches) despite multiple failures surrounding him. Not sure how many QBs could be that, but I know the number is very small.

As for the WC, I think he'd be better in it as opposed to prior years. I say this because his decision making is quicker than in prior years... but still, he's probably much better off not playing the WCO.

Originally posted by fly15:

Make what stop? I was just trying to give objective statistics.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by fly15:

Make what stop? I was just trying to give objective statistics.

Don't worry, fly15 doesn't usually have anything more to add than "Alex sucks" or a smiley.

-9fA

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:


Don't worry, fly15 doesn't usually have anything more to add than "Alex sucks" or a smiley.

-9fA

Yeah, I know... I'm just being a big emo because I'm worried my statistics are annoying or something.

Plus, my Grandmother died and I'm fragile.

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Yet, when Alex gets him involved in the pass game, Crabtree looks like a stud. As least you can excuse Crabtree's mistakes. He's still a young receiver learning the ropes with flashes of brilliance. Alex is a 6 year veteran learning the ropes with flashes of brilliance. You dont see a problem with that comparison ?

I don't know why I'm bothering, you've obviously made up your mind, but what the hell, eh?

Targets vs. receptions for Crabtree by week:

Week 1: Targets 8 Receptions 2

Week 2: Targets 3 Receptions 1

Week 3: Targets 8 Receptions 3

Week 4: Targets 6 Receptions 5

Week 5: Targets 14 Receptions 9

Week 6: Targets 6 Receptions 4

Week 7: Targets 5 Receptions 4

With the exceptions of week 2 and 4, Crabtree has been targeted as much or more than any other WR on the team. Weeks 1 and 3 are his second highest in terms of targets. However, they were also his lowest in terms of target/completion ratio.

Crabtree has also been targeted more than any other WR on the team.

Targets by player:

Frank Gore: 58

Vernon Davis: 52

Michael Crabtree: 50

It's not like Smith isn't trying to get him the ball. Crabtree just had a rough start to the season. He didn't help himself or Smith.

Ummmm........yeah......just because he's been a "target" doesnt mean the ball's been hitting him in the hands and bouncing off. Remember that "intentional grounding" call that Sing was so fired up about vs. Oakland ? Yeah, you know the one where Alex stood in the pocket and beamed it to into the stands. Well, Morgan was the "target" on that one. Guess that means that Morgan is getting involved in the passing game as well, huh ?

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Ummmm........yeah......just because he's been a "target" doesnt mean the ball's been hitting him in the hands and bouncing off. Remember that "intentional grounding" call that Sing was so fired up about vs. Oakland ? Yeah, you know the one where Alex stood in the pocket and beamed it to into the stands. Well, Morgan was the "target" on that one. Guess that means that Morgan is getting involved in the passing game as well, huh ?

You really don't see my point, do you? All I was saying is that Smith is "trying" to get the ball to Crabtree. Those first few games, Crabtree was a hot mess. Since then, he's been playing very well. He's had a very good target/reception ratio recently. It's those first few games that throw off his numbers. He could be tops on the team in receptions if not for that.

I'm totally with you on Crabtree having big potential. Dude could be a superstar if we used him right. He looks amazing in space... his running after the catch is exciting! Certainly a weapon and not an excuse for Alex Smith.

Thing is, his high target to reception ratio of late shows that this isn't the scenario you make it out to be in your response. He's making catches....

I don't think Smith is the problem on this one. I don't think Crabtree is the problem, either. I think it's the poor pass protection disrupting the passing game. Smith isn't blameless for that, but he has been doing a far better job of reading blitzes and hitting hot reads the last few weeks. It's just hard for me to not speak up to defend Smith when it's obvious that the o-line got him killed.

Smith has been getting the ball to Crabtree recently and has been at least trying to all season. I think after the first few games Crabtree has proven to be our most reliable receiver... from any position. Better than Gore or Davis. He's certainly not the problem, whatever your opinion of Smith. We can agree on that, right?

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Ummmm........yeah......just because he's been a "target" doesnt mean the ball's been hitting him in the hands and bouncing off. Remember that "intentional grounding" call that Sing was so fired up about vs. Oakland ? Yeah, you know the one where Alex stood in the pocket and beamed it to into the stands. Well, Morgan was the "target" on that one. Guess that means that Morgan is getting involved in the passing game as well, huh ?

You really don't see my point, do you? All I was saying is that Smith is "trying" to get the ball to Crabtree. Those first few games, Crabtree was a hot mess. Since then, he's been playing very well. He's had a very good target/reception ratio recently. It's those first few games that throw off his numbers. He could be tops on the team in receptions if not for that.

I'm totally with you on Crabtree having big potential. Dude could be a superstar if we used him right. He looks amazing in space... his running after the catch is exciting! Certainly a weapon and not an excuse for Alex Smith.

Thing is, his high target to reception ratio of late shows that this isn't the scenario you make it out to be in your response. He's making catches....

I don't think Smith is the problem on this one. I don't think Crabtree is the problem, either. I think it's the poor pass protection disrupting the passing game. Smith isn't blameless for that, but he has been doing a far better job of reading blitzes and hitting hot reads the last few weeks. It's just hard for me to not speak up to defend Smith when it's obvious that the o-line got him killed.

Smith has been getting the ball to Crabtree recently and has been at least trying to all season. I think after the first few games Crabtree has proven to be our most reliable receiver... from any position. Better than Gore or Davis. He's certainly not the problem, whatever your opinion of Smith. We can agree on that, right?

I dont think Crabtree is the problem at all. Sure, he's young and he's still learning the ropes. IMO, whatever mistakes he makes (from his end) can be excused at this point because he's still a budding receiver. However, I dont think we can use any of this to defend Smith.

Has Crabtree been more involved in the passing game as the weeks have progressed ? Sure.

But I cant agree with anyone that says that Crabtree is the problem in our receiving game. If we had to break it down and compare Smith-Crabtree's relationship, I think we'd find more mistakes on Smith's end than Crabtree's.....