Top 3 underrated and overrated 49ers

over-
Clements
Lewis
Morgan

Under-
Justin Smith
McDonald
Brooks

Originally posted by NCommand:
Fun topic...

Overrated would imply most think he's a stud when in fact, he's not really. It would imply some serious playmaking but he doesn't. Underrated would imply just the opposite. So, here's my list:

Overrated:
Lawson - on par with two of the most overrated players of all time (Ahmed Plummer and Eric Davis)
Franklin - besides being WAY overpaid too, the fact is, he's another one-dimensional player who only plays well in a one-gap system and RJF proved that just about anybody can play that role
Willis - this should get you fired up! LOL. But going by the definition of overrated he is considered as having a God-like status around the league and plays in a defense that is designed around him. That said, he's not a leader or a game changer. He's a tremendous tackler and will malke the occasional play but lets be real here - he's 100% freed to run to the ball carrier and play down hill. Aside from him not wanting the dot on his helmet he's also very soft in coverage and that had been a big problem for this team. In NT, he IS a God. He is not a game-changer but a very good LB that plays in a perfect system (sort of like Ben Rothlisberger who also was very overrated his first few years in the league). Will Willis become that Ray Lewis-type of leader? Probably not b/c that's not his temperment. Will he get better in coverage? Hopefully. I love Willis but he is overrated some.

Runner up - Staley, hands down

Underrated:
Brooks - every time this guy gets on the field good things happen for us whether that's a dominating performance against the Cards, tackles for losses, knocking down a pass, breaking Reggie Bush's leg or publically stating he was pissed he didn't lead the team in sacks last year. Yet, again, going by the definitions, MS thinks it's going to be tough trying to figure out how he'll fit him in. Seriously? The guy gets about 10 snaps last night coming off a lacerated kidney and gets a sack, hurry and is the first one down on ST's and breaks Bush's leg. That alone is more then both of our starting OLB's have done collectively taking 90% of every snap the past two games. That, my friends, is the definition of overrated (and a retarded coaching staff with no eye for pass rushers on a 3-4 defense; see also, D. Briggs)
Baas - the guy was the only o-line player last year to consistently clear the way for various long Gore TD runs. He was playing stellar as a RG and then suddenly is moved to LG for Rachal? Ummm...his rookie year he was dominant esp. towards the year at RG for an injured Smiley but Smiley is given his job back and then bails for another team. Baas takes a paycut to stay with us and is now switched to center and doing a stellar job there. Of all the OL so far this season, he would probably grade out the highest right now. Not bad eh?
Sopoaga - this guy constantly gets no love but right now, he may be our best DL and that's no joke. Manny gets many of the glory for his dirty work but now Sopoaga is not only occupying two guys often (on the "strong side") but he's allowing Franklin to shoot his single A-gap AND sealing the edge forcing RB's far outside where Manny lines up, standing up at the LOS ready to feast. The only one breaking his back these days are our fans! Who was that 1st rounder who was supposed to take his job again?

Runner up - Alex Smith (this guy has been more hamstrung by piss poor coaching then any player I have ever seen; give this man the complete freedom to call his own game and he'll play to his #1 overall status). You'e got the wristband now, Alex...rip out the headset and treat every game like you did in the 2-minute drill where you called all the plays on your own! Just act like the headset isn't working, squint a lot to the sideline and then in the huddle, call your own plays! I'd also like to mention Reggie Smith here. So far this year, the kid just makes plays with his limited snaps!

Have at it folks...

You've got guts kid.

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Overated
1. Dashon Goldson. He's no better than a league average safety. A big upgrade over Mark Roman but definitely not anything irreplaceable. People are seriously overrating him for one great game against the Cardinals. He's been mediocre the rest of the time.

2. Delaine Walker This has been going on for the last 4 years now. Every year he's considered a "secret weapon" and a playmaker but for a guy with his reputation on the webzone, I'm a little underwhelmed by his 2 career touchdowns and his career 233 yards last year, even though we ran lots and lots of two TE sets last year not to mention his tendency to cough up the ball. Before last year there was even a thread where many webzone posters were calling for him to be the starter over Davis. It's irrational and I don't get it. Every team has a couple of these types of players on their team. He's completely replaceable.

3. Nate Davis- And people complain about how Alex supporters make "Alexcuses." Yet to most of those same posters, Nate Davis can do no wrong.

Underrated

1. Shawnte Spencer- he's a close to shut down corner yet he gets next to no recognition at all from the webzone and none at all nationally.

2. Ahmad Brooks- this guy is far and away our best passrusher. Not going to say he's not recognized on the zone, but he's almost the forgotten man in our defense.

3. Manny Lawson- No this guy is not a star, but he is an above average 3-4 linebacker and would be a valuable asset on pretty much any playoff caliber team. I feel like on the webzone people don't appreciate role players enough because they're not a star. Parys Haralson is waaaay more deserving of a demotion than Lawson is.


I would say Parys Haralson is way overrated by our coaching staff but definitely not here. The guy just seems to get a free ride no matter what even though he's only had one good half-season in his career. This guy is probably the biggest weak link on our team.

I like it.

Underrated:
Josh Morgan
Anthony Davis
Shawnte Spencer
honorable mention Takeo Spikes and Alex Smith

Overrated:
Delanie Walker
Joe Staley
Nate Clements

Overrated

Alex Smith

Underrated

Alex Smith

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Overrated

Alex Smith

Underrated

Alex Smith

this

Originally posted by NCommand:
Fun topic...


Willis - this should get you fired up! LOL. But going by the definition of overrated he is considered as having a God-like status around the league and plays in a defense that is designed around him. That said, he's not a leader or a game changer. He's a tremendous tackler and will malke the occasional play but lets be real here - he's 100% freed to run to the ball carrier and play down hill. Aside from him not wanting the dot on his helmet he's also very soft in coverage and that had been a big problem for this team. In NT, he IS a God. He is not a game-changer but a very good LB that plays in a perfect system (sort of like Ben Rothlisberger who also was very overrated his first few years in the league). Will Willis become that Ray Lewis-type of leader? Probably not b/c that's not his temperment. Will he get better in coverage? Hopefully. I love Willis but he is overrated some.

]

You need some education, Willis plays in a 34 defense which has 3 lineman and 4 linebackers. The linebackers are expected to take on blockers in a 34 defense because there are only 3 down lineman. The lineman are expected to hold blockers from the second level as long as possible but if you ever actually watch the games, Willis is excellent at not over pursuing and getting caught up in the mess, and finding the ball carrier through a maze of o and d lineman. He DOES NOT run free. A 43 defense would be more suited to his speed, but with his intelligence, leverage and power, he excels at taking on blockers. Something that was thought of as his weakness coming out of college. If you can shut down a teams run game and make them one dimensional, how is he not a game changer? Not to mention the INT in seattle he took to the house. Soft in coverage? Im sorry but no middle LB is going to stay with Reggie on a jerk route one on one. MLBs arent supposed to be downfield like safeties, i thought we got rid of Mike Nolan?
Im sorry but someone needs to roast you, do you even remember how bad the 49ers run defense was before Willis showed up?

Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
over-
Clements
Lewis
Morgan

Under-
Justin Smith
McDonald
Brooks

Originally posted by Bayerrya:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Fun topic...


Willis - this should get you fired up! LOL. But going by the definition of overrated he is considered as having a God-like status around the league and plays in a defense that is designed around him. That said, he's not a leader or a game changer. He's a tremendous tackler and will malke the occasional play but lets be real here - he's 100% freed to run to the ball carrier and play down hill. Aside from him not wanting the dot on his helmet he's also very soft in coverage and that had been a big problem for this team. In NT, he IS a God. He is not a game-changer but a very good LB that plays in a perfect system (sort of like Ben Rothlisberger who also was very overrated his first few years in the league). Will Willis become that Ray Lewis-type of leader? Probably not b/c that's not his temperment. Will he get better in coverage? Hopefully. I love Willis but he is overrated some.

]

You need some education, Willis plays in a 34 defense which has 3 lineman and 4 linebackers. The linebackers are expected to take on blockers in a 34 defense because there are only 3 down lineman. The lineman are expected to hold blockers from the second level as long as possible but if you ever actually watch the games, Willis is excellent at not over pursuing and getting caught up in the mess, and finding the ball carrier through a maze of o and d lineman. He DOES NOT run free. A 43 defense would be more suited to his speed, but with his intelligence, leverage and power, he excels at taking on blockers. Something that was thought of as his weakness coming out of college. If you can shut down a teams run game and make them one dimensional, how is he not a game changer? Not to mention the INT in seattle he took to the house. Soft in coverage? Im sorry but no middle LB is going to stay with Reggie on a jerk route one on one. MLBs arent supposed to be downfield like safeties, i thought we got rid of Mike Nolan?
Im sorry but someone needs to roast you, do you even remember how bad the 49ers run defense was before Willis showed up?

LMAO! The topic was who is overrated right? Well, that would slightly be Willis given his God-like status here and based on his performance/production; who could possibly look at any of his flaws, right?

The fact is we do run a 3-4...except that 3-4 is completely different than any other 3-4 defense in the league. Here, Manusky has not one but two non-outside pass rushers at the WILL and SAM (focus seems to be on run stopping) and then uses his TED (TKO) as a "defensive fullback" to tie up blockers so Willis is free to seek-and-destroy. The guy rarely has to play off blocks unless the offense gets to the second level. He's free to blitz up the gut, run sideline to sideline, play up at the LOS, shoot gaps just behind the LOS. Teams such as N.O. exploit him in the passing game...I've been noting that here for a couple years now how soft we are in the middle of field and if you were able to watch/record every game, you'd see that many of that poor coverage is on Willis. He's given up a lot of TD's that ppl dismiss or choose to ignore (b/c he's a God, remember)? Do you remember Brandon Moore? When he polayed the MIKE he was putting up the exact same numbers as Willis. So, is it the player or the system? It's probably a combination of both. Let's not forget that Willis didn't even want to the dot (leader tramp stamp). Nonetheless, he is a very good player and does his job very very well. He couldn't be in a better situation and when it's all said and done, he'll have the numbers for Canton. On Monday night, he made some crucial plays (good and bad) and showed some strong emotion. I love the guy but if we're talking about players who are slightly overrated on NT, Willis is certainly one of those players.

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by dj43:
OVER
Goldson - some think he is a poor man's Bob Sanders but he isn't even close
Baas - a journeyman who is lucky to have a chance to play regularly
Crabtree - compared to his hype he has fallen FAR short on performance.

UNDER
Spikes - Willis should take him out to dinner every week for the dirty work he does
Sopoaga - see Spikes.
Spencer - not sure how under-rated but he doesn't seem to get much love here.

__________

You're right about Goldson and Sanders.

Goldson actually plays.

And if Goldson is moved to strong safety he will resemble Sanders in another way - he will be injured a lot of the time because he is not big enough to play that way.

Goldson has been barely mediocre so far this year. He has had one good game IN HIS CAREER. The rest of the time he is always a half second late to stop a big play. Monday night, at THE critical moment in the game, with everyone in the park knowing Brees would be looking for Colston, Goldson did not even get turned around to see the ball coming on a play where stopping Colston was key to the win.

Sorry, until this kid quits dreaming about how much money he will get NEXT YEAR, he is at the TOP of the over-rated list. If he keeps playing like he has so far, he may wind up begging to stay here for the minimum. Right now I think Reggie Smith has more potential than Goldson.

Originally posted by Bayerrya:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Fun topic...


Willis - this should get you fired up! LOL. But going by the definition of overrated he is considered as having a God-like status around the league and plays in a defense that is designed around him. That said, he's not a leader or a game changer. He's a tremendous tackler and will malke the occasional play but lets be real here - he's 100% freed to run to the ball carrier and play down hill. Aside from him not wanting the dot on his helmet he's also very soft in coverage and that had been a big problem for this team. In NT, he IS a God. He is not a game-changer but a very good LB that plays in a perfect system (sort of like Ben Rothlisberger who also was very overrated his first few years in the league). Will Willis become that Ray Lewis-type of leader? Probably not b/c that's not his temperment. Will he get better in coverage? Hopefully. I love Willis but he is overrated some.

]

You need some education, Willis plays in a 34 defense which has 3 lineman and 4 linebackers. The linebackers are expected to take on blockers in a 34 defense because there are only 3 down lineman. The lineman are expected to hold blockers from the second level as long as possible but if you ever actually watch the games, Willis is excellent at not over pursuing and getting caught up in the mess, and finding the ball carrier through a maze of o and d lineman. He DOES NOT run free. A 43 defense would be more suited to his speed, but with his intelligence, leverage and power, he excels at taking on blockers. Something that was thought of as his weakness coming out of college. If you can shut down a teams run game and make them one dimensional, how is he not a game changer? Not to mention the INT in seattle he took to the house. Soft in coverage? Im sorry but no middle LB is going to stay with Reggie on a jerk route one on one. MLBs arent supposed to be downfield like safeties, i thought we got rid of Mike Nolan?
Im sorry but someone needs to roast you, do you even remember how bad the 49ers run defense was before Willis showed up?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

That's the funniest thing I've heard in a while. You telling NC he needs some "education" about the defense. You haven't been around here long, have you.

NC is, more often that not, right on the money when talking D. Just because he called Willis over-rated you're gonna "educate" him? Gimme a break. Now, I'm not saying I agree with NC's statement, but I know better than to attempt to "educate" him.

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
why joe staley he was very good against the saints he doesnt hold and doesnt get beat often

overrated:
goldson
baas ( saying he shud start instead of heittman is )
crabtree

underrated:
spencer
josh morgan
walker he is a YAC machone with good hands only problem is fumbling but he is hands down the best #2 TE in the nfl

It's b/c he can't run block worth a lick. all the good runs are to the right side of the line. not to mention he got beat a lot vs the Seahawks. he's a good OT just not pro bowl level.

Overrated
Terrel Brown
Goldson
Rachal

Underrated
Josh Morgan
Spikes
Mike Lewis

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
why joe staley he was very good against the saints he doesnt hold and doesnt get beat often

overrated:
goldson
baas ( saying he shud start instead of heittman is )
crabtree

underrated:
spencer
josh morgan
walker he is a YAC machone with good hands only problem is fumbling but he is hands down the best #2 TE in the nfl

It's b/c he can't run block worth a lick. all the good runs are to the right side of the line. not to mention he got beat a lot vs the Seahawks. he's a good OT just not pro bowl level.

Overrated
Terrel Brown
Goldson
Rachal

Underrated
Josh Morgan
Spikes
Mike Lewis

eh, I am going to disagree with you on Staley's ability to run block.

I don't think we have seen enough of him in a decent situation to make that judgement yet. Last year year he was not healthy enough to judge for the entire season. His foot was never fully healthy. Year before that the entire line was saddled with George Warhop, a very sorry excuse for an OL coach. In addition, he was playing next to a revolving door of LGs and never developed the chemistry needed to block well.

Under Solari/Brown, I expect to see a much improved level of play from Joe on running plays. In fact, we saw a good bit of that Monday night.

Staley has excellent footwork and has shown the ability to stay in front of DL if given the chance. Yes, he got beat in Seattle by a speed rusher but that was on another of those plays where the team barely got to the LOS and had to snap the ball. Staley had almost no time to get set and ready to go. Monday night, against a very aggressive and agile DE, he did a great job. Even with a rookie playing beside him (Iupati played well after the first two series) Staley was moving guys off the line and creating space to run.

The guy has talent and if the coaches keep allowing the OL time to get settled and adjust their blocking assignments to defensive alignments, he will show that in the upcoming games.

overrated:
VD - so far so good this year, but last year he had a ton of penalties and drops which everyone seemed willing to overlook because he finally broke out as a receiver
Willis - because we all think he's god myself included, but his coverage is only so-so
Sopoaga - brings nothing in the pass rush and when we do give up something in the run, it's usually to his side

underrated:
Spikes - seems like all the wear and tear is catching up in the form of injuries since the end of last year, but he's basically the perfect complement to Willis, much like JT was to Rice
Clements - bashed for his contract to the point that I think he's become underrated...is there a better corner in the league at run support?
Morgan - does everything that he's asked to do and is generally solid

Overrated
Ginn
Goldson
Haralson

Underrated
Brooks
Walker
Ziegler

Over used
Moran Norris
Byham
Haralson

Under Used
Westbrook
VD
Crabtree