Manny Lawson's worth

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
he is like an 83 if you play madden.

He can be replaced if he so choses to be a problem:

We have Brooks and Haralson and an up and coming Dyrell Briggs

Haralson is ROLB and Manny is LOLB. If anyone is ineffective it's Haralson. Brooks is solid but he is better on the Right than the Left because of Justin Smith. Yes Brooks plays Left too but he's better suited to be on the QBs' blindside which helps him get to the QB.

Pull up the film from last season, Manny was always in the picture someplace on the field.

And NO SHAT we can't sign everyone peeps. But we can sign quite a bit of them. Including Manny. It's because of Manny and ABF, that Icebox can get in on the plays as much as he does. Remove Manny and our Pass Rushing OLB Brooks would be a liability to the screen on the Left. More screens went where last season? To the QBs' blind side that's where. Victimizing Haralson more than any of them. Yeah some came Manny's way. No disputing that. But the bulk of them went to the opposing's Left.

I like how PH isn't even expendable in this argument. To me he's the weakest link in the unit. Well okay Mckilliop is. But he was a Rook last year. He's SUPPOSED to be. Briggs is untested.

So the odd man out should be PH, if people have been paying attention.

So I guess that people understand that $15 million guaranteed is probably the contract that Manny gets? So how is he not signable for the full $40 million? You know he's not going to make that with this team, so I don't get all the "good riddance " attitudes that I'm seeing here.

Actually both players are pretty decent but statistically Manny was better last season.

He led all LBs' with 6.5 sacks. If our Defense comes in with a chip on their shoulder, like I expect them to Manny is primed for a HUGE year.

~Ceadder

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think people are still blinded by what Haralson did in 2008. Fact is Manny brings more to the team. And even if he never develops into the pass rusher we hoped for him to be, he still brings more. I'm sick of people labeling Lawson a bust just because he hasn't developed into exactly what he was drafted for. Sometimes you get something different that you hadn't expected.

I say resign him to a fair deal. If any LB needs to go, its Haralson (and no I don't think he should be let go either).

Agreed 100%

Nothing wrong with Manny

$2 Mill a year, 4 year deal, $8 mill guaranteed-$14 mill with incentives.

i like Manny's flexibility and versatility, but not at 40 million. I believe he will get close to that in free agency.

Originally posted by matt49er:
It's rumored Lawson wants $40M a contract not that far off from Willis and close to what VD will probably get. I say the guy is nuts and it worth 25M tops, what contract do you think Lawson is worthy of?

I like Lawson, a LOT, but he's smokin rocks if he thinks he's worth 40mil.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by matt49er:
It's rumored Lawson wants $40M a contract not that far off from Willis and close to what VD will probably get. I say the guy is nuts and it worth 25M tops, what contract do you think Lawson is worthy of?

I like Lawson, a LOT, but he's smokin rocks if he thinks he's worth 40mil.

Ah, the art of negotiations. Ask first for a number double to what you would actually accept when push comes to shove.

What is Parys making? IMO Manny brings more to the table and should at least be paid at least as much.

Brooks has shown some pass rush skills but hasn't played a lot while Manny has been working in the trenches for the last several years.

It's human nature for Manny to feel that he should get paid too when the 49ers are giving 'Johnny-come-lately's' like Brooks nice contracts.

Lawson is a cool guy and an above average LB with very good, if not elite speed for the position. However, he has done nothing to justify that kind of money or his draft position. Still, it's called negotiation, and you start high and work your way down to reality. If he doesn't get to realisitic figures, then I'll be sorry to see him go. We should not and cannot set a precedent of overpaying guys of his talent level. We made a similar mistake with Clements, though at least he had a body of work to partially justify that. Lawson does not.

Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
What is Parys making? IMO Manny brings more to the table and should at least be paid at least as much.

Brooks has shown some pass rush skills but hasn't played a lot while Manny has been working in the trenches for the last several years.

It's human nature for Manny to feel that he should get paid too when the 49ers are giving 'Johnny-come-lately's' like Brooks nice contracts.

Agreed. Manny does so much more than what he was drafted to do. He sets the edge on rushing plays, covers TEs and WRs and actually makes tackles unlike Parys Haralson (who I like, but think he is limited to strictly pass rushing [see game versus Titans]).

Aside from that, people forget that Manny comes out on third downs and hasn't had much opportunities to rush the passer like Haralson and Brooks yet he still led the team with 6.5 sacks.

Is he worth $40mil? Probably not, but I'd like for him to stay and at least get a decent contract. He's worth a roster spot on a team that needs talents like his.

Originally posted by spizzy:
I feel that niner fans don't appreciate how lawson set the edge last year. I watched every game and noticed that he definitely does not play as lanky as he looks and he is also pretty good in pursuit. I agree he did not show much pass rush moves, but he also did not have a lot of consistent opportunities. He also seemed pretty good in coverage

No one is saying he's not a good solid player, but he isn't worth that contract

Originally posted by jreff22:
$2 Mill a year, 4 year deal, $8 mill guaranteed-$14 mill with incentives.

Thats less than half than Haralson makes and is solid backup money.

Lawson is starting to lose more and more playing time with every workout he misses. Its not like the guy was tearing it up. You dont break the bank for a 2 down OLB with little passrush skill. Let Brooks have a chance at the position all 3 downs this year and have Manny back up both positions. Maybe trade him for a pick if it proves that Brooks can start.

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Probably nothing more than backup money.

-9fA

He has no pass rush value. Backup money for a backup at best.

But do we REALLY have to go down this freakin path again?!!!

Remember how many people didn't think Julian Peterson was worth $50 mil? He got it didn't he? And I don't remember a Sheattle fan complaining that he wasn't worth it.

People really just need to stop. If Manny goes he goes. But if we can retain him then dammit, do so. Our team needs to stop pissing their own players off. Seriously. How do you get big name FA players?

SHOW THEM THAT YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN. Duh.

But I have faith in Parage to get the guy extended and for a reasonable guaranteed amount. Cause that's what the issue is. It's not 4, 14, 40 or even $400 million. That's nothing more than a number that NEVER gets played for. It's very rare for a player to get 1/2 of the value of the contract in the NFL. If you know and understand this then WTF are you bishin about?

~Ceadder

You can't compare Lawson to Peterson. Remember Peterson was franchised several times before they let him walk. Manny has never held that sort of status. He has been a starter because he is simply the best we could get. Now, that it's time for an extension all signs point to him not being here next year. Not a real shocker.

I can't? JP was not the Pass Rusher that we wanted him to be when he was here and people said he wasn't a 3-4 LB. Ummm he proved us wrong on that didn't he? He was replaceable wasn't he?

Now we're right back in the same position again. Only Pass covering LBs' are alot harder to find than an edge Rushing LB. So tell me how I can't compare them? You can say what you want about the Franchise, but there is no guarantee that there will even be a Tag after the next CBA. And next year being an uncapped year, the tag is not applicable either.

So please I really would like to know how I can't compare JP and Manny? Shoot Manny is faster than JP, plays the Run better and does get to the QB.

I think that saying that he's not worth $15 mil guaranteed is tantamount to myopically sticking your heads in the sand. And people that seriously feel that way don't understand the dynamics involved.

~Ceadder

THIS.

There is no better comparison I can think of. JP is the better overall player but just barely and they are definitely the same type of player with most of the same strengths/weaknesses.

Originally posted by BrentJonzin:

Originally posted by spizzy:
I feel that niner fans don't appreciate how lawson set the edge last year. I watched every game and noticed that he definitely does not play as lanky as he looks and he is also pretty good in pursuit. I agree he did not show much pass rush moves, but he also did not have a lot of consistent opportunities. He also seemed pretty good in coverage

No one is saying he's not a good solid player, but he isn't worth that contract

And no one in Manny's corner has said he's going to ask for that sort of contract. It's just a rumor posted on the WZ. You should know what that is usually worth.

Originally posted by spizzy:
I feel that niner fans don't appreciate how lawson set the edge last year. I watched every game and noticed that he definitely does not play as lanky as he looks and he is also pretty good in pursuit. I agree he did not show much pass rush moves, but he also did not have a lot of consistent opportunities. He also seemed pretty good in coverage

That would be excellent if SF played a Tampa-2 system, but OLB's need to get pressure in a 3-4 zone blitz scheme.