Baalke - authority/courage to trade?

Originally posted by vermonator:
If all four top offensive tackles were gone by the 13th pick, I'd choose the BPA and then trade the 17th pick for Gaither. Otherwise, any offensive tackle we take at 17 would be a reach and not as good as Gaither. That said, the Ravens have already stated that a high second rounder would get a team in the door, so we can take the BPA there as well. Sounds like a no brainer to me, trade a second and say a sixth and our offensive line is set while getting two starters in the mid first round. Does our four-headed GM have the guts to pull the trigger though? That's the question.

Gaither would be one option. An alternative, say if he had already been picked up, may be to take BPA at 13 then Iupati with the second pick. Then with the 2nd rounder take the best OT remaining. The tackle of course would not be ready to start this season - the main reason for drafting a RT so early - but with Sims re-signed, that is survivable.

The logic of taking Iupati is, in the absence of a top tackle, to fix the other weakness, namely Baas.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
As one of the initial posters in favor of a HOFO, jimbagg, i am worried sick, and have thot thru most of what you put in print. Do the fellows who just blow this off really believe that our team just "got great" during the Bill Walsh era because he was a good coach? Hell no, he was tweaking, improving, trading up, trading down, standing pat, like the guy who owns the casino. Why? Because he was one of the real first HOFOs, a guy who was able to coach every position, was able to outcoach every opponent, was a master of talent picking, and when it came time to draft or FA, the guy knew each and every nuance of his team, what it needed, when, why, where, and how. In short he was a genius when it came time for draft day. The Ronnie Lott backfield? Pure Walsh. Pure genius.

Why? Well, he learned at the elbow of the master, Paul Brown, equally skilled in all fields, but unlike Brown who never promoted Walsh(instead keeping him around as an asst---the best ever), and never recommended him for a HC job. That was the antithesis of walsh, whose coaching tree has something like 29 or 32 guys in his coaching tree. Do you folks who think things are just hunky dory really think that just happened? NO, walsh watched a master for yrs, and learned his job well. When he came here he was the de facto HOFO, and Eddie D was smart enough to realize it.

We got what for the draft? Two fresh "meats" both totally out of their element, and sakes alive, nobody in charge. We do have two guys who can confer...or maybe argue...while the clock is ticking. The fact that nobody but a few dumb fans like jimbagg and me aren't worried about this is, well, frankly, distressing. We are going into the big game with 2 guys that don't know(see walsh's resume above)virtually anything about the big picture, but rather are talent scouts...probably pretty good ones, too.

What we are missing is the HOFO with the big overall big picture, and the knowledge about when to blink and when to hold 'em. Are we better off without mcCLOWN? Yeah, we are, because he proved to be the anti-walsh. Didn't know the team, wasn't a coach, didn't know about building lines first, blah, blah. Most of you folks aren't worried about draft day. Jimbagg and i are. You should be too.

Look, with my entire heart and soul, i hope and pray that our two guys just do a wham bang job. Problem is, i am not holding my breath. Green owner, green drafters, no GM, no HOFO...that doesn't sound like the way one would want to do battle, and a battle (of wits and guts) it will be...just like it always is. Once again it seems like we are the 9th pup on an eight teated momma dog. Yeah, i am worried.

Here it is.

I think it's too soon to tell what front office changes are in the offing...McCloughan just left. The emphasis seems to be on re-signing our own players...and I'm fine with that. A lot of teams are doing that. Some teams like the Eagles are dumping a lot of over-30 vets. Cowboys just released Adams and Hamlin. But, all of those things are still geared toward the goal of hitting a slam dunk in the draft. That's what Singletary and Baalke are doing...getting their homework all done and synching up the draft board. Not many RFA's are moving...with good reason...it's very expensive and virtually no one wants to give up high draft picks.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by m_brockalexander:

Originally posted by jreff22:
Unless a monster is sitting a few spots away (Berry for instance) I'm fine with sitting and taking BPA (within reason).

Give the guy a chance before we lose all faith.

Good point jreff. I also think the way the draft is structured this year over three days is going to help the Niners. Baalke won't be under duress if he has all night between rounds to discuss their options. I am not worried at all.

There will be more arguing and speculating here on the Zone then the actual war room.

No doubt! It's going to be long three days in the Zone.

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
I'm not concerned... they'll be fine.

Don't you have more important sh*t to worry about?

I thought this is what you do in a sports forum, discuss s**t about your team, not daily life problems...stop trolling.

Troll

Overreact much?

That's exactly what I did, he asked a question and I responded with my opinion. My response was "I'm not concerned" and then asked a question of my own "don't you have more important sh*t to worry about?". That, my friend, was a 'rhetorical question'. You can Google that term all by yourself if you're not sure was it means.

You obviously don't understand the definition of "troll". There was no search for an emotional response on my part, and wasn't meant to be inflammatory. Why then, because you the only one, am I called out as a troll? A little emotional, perhaps?

If you're worried, state why... I'm not. We'll be fine.

I'm mean, we won't be any worse off than we have been. Which, compared to some years, I though was pretty good. Then again, I suppose that's another topic entirely...

Originally posted by m_brockalexander:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by m_brockalexander:

Originally posted by jreff22:
Unless a monster is sitting a few spots away (Berry for instance) I'm fine with sitting and taking BPA (within reason).

Give the guy a chance before we lose all faith.

Good point jreff. I also think the way the draft is structured this year over three days is going to help the Niners. Baalke won't be under duress if he has all night between rounds to discuss their options. I am not worried at all.

There will be more arguing and speculating here on the Zone then the actual war room.

No doubt! It's going to be long three days in the Zone.

Absolutely agree; and that's the only thing assured
I think we'll be fine,Besides these staffers have been close to this action before,and there's always a first time for everone.

[ Edited by highway49 on Apr 3, 2010 at 11:21:08 ]

Don't be scurred.

RDWHAHB.

Vermonator, if it went down exactly as you proposed, i would be one ecstatic fan. That is essentially my hope, exactly as you called it. Still and all, no HOFO, just a 4 headed GM, to use your picturesque quote, and will they do it? Will they see it? Will they procrastinate and say "aw, shucks, we'll just go with BPA...which will virtually neuter us for one more season until they get the OL right. Two picks, two hi round OLs. Nothing more, nothing less. Go niners, and Mr Baalke, i sincerely hope you read the
49er webzone.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by BobS:
The 49ers probably have the most inexperienced unskilled front office in the NFL. But they work cheap, it is a miracle this team even made it back to .500 considering everything. With York ownership this team will never sniff another championship. I hold out hope they will sell the team.

Is that you San Diego ?

San Diego and I are the only consistent York bashers. I don't understand why there aren't more of us.

I really dont think it is all that difficult. You identify guys you want, you attach a value (whether that value is money, draft picks or a player), and you start your bidding at something below that and hope to find the sweet spot. This part of the arrangement is easy, it's just basic valuation analysis and bargaining. If anything you should be much more worried about whether those players they identify are actually any good.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by BobS:
The 49ers probably have the most inexperienced unskilled front office in the NFL. But they work cheap, it is a miracle this team even made it back to .500 considering everything. With York ownership this team will never sniff another championship. I hold out hope they will sell the team.

Is that you San Diego ?

San Diego and I are the only consistent York bashers. I don't understand why there aren't more of us.

I always got mad at the fact that our gm was never agressive but I never thought to blame ownership......It does seem that the yorks are cheap. I wouldn't be surprised to see Vernon or Willis slip away down the road.

Originally posted by Snider8706:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by BobS:
The 49ers probably have the most inexperienced unskilled front office in the NFL. But they work cheap, it is a miracle this team even made it back to .500 considering everything. With York ownership this team will never sniff another championship. I hold out hope they will sell the team.

Is that you San Diego ?

San Diego and I are the only consistent York bashers. I don't understand why there aren't more of us.

I always got mad at the fact that our gm was never agressive but I never thought to blame ownership......It does seem that the yorks are cheap. I wouldn't be surprised to see Vernon or Willis slip away down the road.

See Bob? There's more and more of us starting to shake off the fruit punch haze.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Vermonator, if it went down exactly as you proposed, i would be one ecstatic fan. That is essentially my hope, exactly as you called it. Still and all, no HOFO, just a 4 headed GM, to use your picturesque quote, and will they do it? Will they see it? Will they procrastinate and say "aw, shucks, we'll just go with BPA...which will virtually neuter us for one more season until they get the OL right. Two picks, two hi round OLs. Nothing more, nothing less. Go niners, and Mr Baalke, i sincerely hope you read the
49er webzone.

Guys, I'm not sure what I'm missing on Jared Gaither...like why is Ozzie Newsome prepared to let him go, only valuing him as worth a (2nd round) draft pick? Why aren't the Ravens keeping him?

I do understand your point about needing a true GM in charge of the 49ers rather than a scout. The problem there is that those guys just don't seem to grow on trees (no pun intended). Have you identified any potential GM candidates that would be available to the 49ers? Are there any guys from the Brown/Walsh "tree" left...Billick, Lombardi, etc...that could actually do the job as you describe it?

[ Edited by Yetiman on Apr 4, 2010 at 16:00:20 ]

Yeti, the guys i mentioned were the prototypes of guys we need: parcells, pioli, loomis , INDY, Bellicheat, Ravens, to name the top flite HOFOs. Of those, Ravens might be a possibility, in that their talent guy may not be a GM or HOFO, and he might be a guy we could get. To help get an idea, look at teams who do well yr in and yr out, and see if and when one of those guys comes available, tho in Ravens case i think it would be an upward move, probably subject to Ravens approval, unless his contract has run out. There are some bright lites around, just not a lot. There are a lot of pretenders, and they would be easy to find and sign. Take Millen for example. Great player, good guy, lousy GM for a lousier team. HOlmgren---lost his job at SEA as GM because he flunked the GM exam( he wasn't able to draft and FA a team. He cannot put a team together) . Obviously we don't want either of those guys.

So Yeti, we know who some of these folks are and we also know some that are abject failures. This is where being in the owners' club, and the HC knowing all the other HCs and owners, plus GMs on first name basis would sure help. BigMike,coming up from LB coach position, is not a great choice to get on the phone and call another team's GM because he has never done HCing, DCing, OCing , QBcoaching, etc. NOr has he been a GM. Truth be told, bigMIke is short on experience and same goes for knowing coaches, GMs, HOFOs, and their tendencies. That makes it hard to be of help during draft. Another reason we need a HOFO.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Yeti, the guys i mentioned were the prototypes of guys we need: parcells, pioli, loomis , INDY, Bellicheat, Ravens, to name the top flite HOFOs. Of those, Ravens might be a possibility, in that their talent guy may not be a GM or HOFO, and he might be a guy we could get. To help get an idea, look at teams who do well yr in and yr out, and see if and when one of those guys comes available, tho in Ravens case i think it would be an upward move, probably subject to Ravens approval, unless his contract has run out. There are some bright lites around, just not a lot. There are a lot of pretenders, and they would be easy to find and sign. Take Millen for example. Great player, good guy, lousy GM for a lousier team. HOlmgren---lost his job at SEA as GM because he flunked the GM exam( he wasn't able to draft and FA a team. He cannot put a team together) . Obviously we don't want either of those guys.

So Yeti, we know who some of these folks are and we also know some that are abject failures. This is where being in the owners' club, and the HC knowing all the other HCs and owners, plus GMs on first name basis would sure help. BigMike,coming up from LB coach position, is not a great choice to get on the phone and call another team's GM because he has never done HCing, DCing, OCing , QBcoaching, etc. NOr has he been a GM. Truth be told, bigMIke is short on experience and same goes for knowing coaches, GMs, HOFOs, and their tendencies. That makes it hard to be of help during draft. Another reason we need a HOFO.

Right !

Baalke's gonna have to give up the 7th pick just to have somebody return his call.