Consensus: 2/3 of Smith's Picks were not his Fault

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by NinerForLife:
I think the INT's will go down once the offense spends some time together. Timing, chemistry and familiarity will only come with time. Having the best personnel at reciever (Crabs and Hill) as well as Smith getting more into a rythym with the offense and Raye calling plays suited to our players.

As for the defense playing well and getting a score, that hasn't really happened since the Rams game.

As for holding onto a tight game and getting a win, everyone on this board was screaming and whining because that was the game plan to start the season. Posters were wanting people to be fired because that was the game plan with Hill as the QB.

3 weeks ago, everyone wantedto "open up the offense", and when both Raye and Sing (stated) that it wasn't that simple people called them idiots. Well now the offense is being opened up and the team is having "growing pains" and is making some mistakes.

Improvement will not happpen overnight and for some reason this pisses people off. I still say that things will improve, but it will take longer that 2 1/2 games t do it.

Not everyone NFL, but I feel ya. There is no middle ground here so far as 9er fans are concerned. Either you are good now or you should be cut, waived, fired or whatever.

It's sad that it's come to this.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by NJNiner:
Maby if Alex was to put a little more air under his passes, they are less likely to be tipped.

How about if WR's just catch the ball instead of tipping it up in the air.

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by D_Niner:
LOL. This guy throws more picks that were not his fault than any other QB that I know of...

There's got to be something to this...

if this continues....forget a Brady rule...I think there should be a Alex rule....if the ball gets deflected, it is a penalty if the opposing defense catches the ball...if it does happen.....automatic 1st down, with the culprit suspended for the rest of the game.......just so "Teammates, Coaches, Management, the Bears Coaching staff, and analysts." don't have to go through so much time to defend the guy.

Probably seems like I'm piling on....but I understand if Alex was still a rookie....or if this was just a new thing....but its not, and when all these people come to his defense...its like they are all worried about his confidence....as if he is still a rookie.....basically like "its ok Alex its not your fault...continue what you're doing......it has been working mighty fine." no.....I REALLY HOPE Sing or Raye are REALLY getting through to Alex behind the scenes that this is unacceptable.....especially in this league where these defenders live off turnovers.....they are athletic as fk and thrive off mistimed passes....or dropped passes.

That's not why they are defending him though. They know and understand that in San Francisco as the Starting QB that Alex's position as QB1 is tenuous at best with the fans.

It's not that they are babying him, so much as it is they are pointing this out in the hopes that the FANS' will be patient with him. It's not like he's just another in a long line of average QBs' with no level of expectation to meet with us. He is following legends. And that is a tough act to follow in any business let alone the NFL.

~Ceadder

following Legends? Ty Detmer, Jeff Garcia, Tim Rattay, Dilfer, Chris Winkie dinkie do....etc. all these QBs have come and gone.....I think the fans have been humbled over the years.....they have been patient with Alex....and the front office has been more patient with ALex than any QB I have seen in all my years watching football...

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Ok I agree with that. I think where we differ is how we judge who is better or worse. I never thought Rodgers was that much more talented than Smith or vice versa. I do think Rodgers was more of a sure fire ready to go QB while Smith was a project. But talent wise I didn't see much difference.

I think we can both agree Smith pretty much had no business being a first round pick let alone a number one overall pick. He was a 2nd-4th round project QB with a ton of upside, who with proper development and continutity would become really good.

But whatever hindsight is 20-20. Let's hope his mader chod turns it around. :p

Yea and to be perfectly honest, I actually do think Smith has looked a lot better. His timing is still not completely there but I think by the end of the season it will be. I mean it is true that he's played 2.5 games. Good that we play tomorrow...we get to see him bounce back without much time to think about it.

Throwing for 280 is something that you never expected out of him in 06 and 07. Despite the picks in the Tenn game, he made some great plays as well (Jason Hill's first TD and VD for 40 to name a couple).

I almost feel like he's a rookie who has sat a few years and is learning on the fly right now...but that's not necessarily a bad thing since I feel like our season isn't going to end in an NFC West crown anyway.

I guess I could say I look at it like Kevin Lynch does in his radio interview...something is brewing here offensively, but it's gonna have to wait til next season to push us into the playoffs. There's a foundation to build on with Crabtree, VD, Gore, Hill, Morgan, and hopefully Smith. That's a nice core. Now if we can add a few (like 3 or 4) linemen this offseason, I know we'll make noise next year.

Oh and LOL @ the bolded, haha.[/quote







You doin good job! i think it is sound good!

[ Edited by BuZzB28 on Nov 11, 2009 at 20:10:46 ]

Hey bubba, do you have any idea exactly how many pump fakes you used last Sun.? Yup, same # you used in game before that, game before that, and so on, right on thru to your first game with 49ers. Know how many pump fakes Eli, Peyton, Brady and Rothlisberger used on Sun? How about most any pass that wasn't a quick slant or out...say maybe 10, 15, 20 times for each qb in each game? Know how many of those were picked? None. How many resulted in completions? Virtually all. How many in TDs? Many.

Okay, Alex, realistically, you have no OL or a very poor OL for pass blocking. Granted. But for those times when you have a guy and you lock your eyeglobes in on him, everybody in the stadium, but especially the LBs, Corners or Safeties know where you are going with that pass. Many of those got picked or nearly so. IF you could just do 2 things, you would incr your chances of completions by over 20-30% of where you are now.

1) Dont' look or stare your receiver down. Obviously(i hope) the coaches have pointed that out to you, but son, you got to break that habit. And it is hard with a really poor OL. Nonetheless, you have to do it.

2)PUMP FAKE--you won't believe how many D backs will fall for it. YOur completion percentage will skyrocket and your Ws will too. YOu can be a very good QB if you could just add these 2 time worn items to your armamentarium. The 2 picks to morgan were both into double coverage, because you virtually stared at #84 from the time he left LOS. So don't. Alex, you are both smart and disciplined. Show us you can not stare your guy down, and for heaven sakes, show us the pump fake...and then show us again and again and again. Watch the Ws stack up.

How about the O LINE pretend it is a "REAL NFL LEVEL O LINE." At least pretend a little on Sundays.

he doesnt have time to pumpfake

you can argue that pump faking takes up that extra second that the OL can't hold off the defense

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
he doesnt have time to pumpfake

This.

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
he doesnt have time to pumpfake

He's had plenty of plays to pump fake on; even on that last throw that got picked off, he could've pump faked...or on his 2nd pick, he could've pump faked (or delivered the ball faster would've been nicer)

You can pump fake all you want but it's *not* gonna stop balls from being tipped by the WR's.

-9fA

[ Edited by 9erfanAUS on Nov 12, 2009 at 02:22:52 ]

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Ok I agree with that. I think where we differ is how we judge who is better or worse. I never thought Rodgers was that much more talented than Smith or vice versa. I do think Rodgers was more of a sure fire ready to go QB while Smith was a project. But talent wise I didn't see much difference.

I think we can both agree Smith pretty much had no business being a first round pick let alone a number one overall pick. He was a 2nd-4th round project QB with a ton of upside, who with proper development and continutity would become really good.

But whatever hindsight is 20-20. Let's hope his mader chod turns it around. :p

Yea and to be perfectly honest, I actually do think Smith has looked a lot better. His timing is still not completely there but I think by the end of the season it will be. I mean it is true that he's played 2.5 games. Good that we play tomorrow...we get to see him bounce back without much time to think about it.

Throwing for 280 is something that you never expected out of him in 06 and 07. Despite the picks in the Tenn game, he made some great plays as well (Jason Hill's first TD and VD for 40 to name a couple).

I almost feel like he's a rookie who has sat a few years and is learning on the fly right now...but that's not necessarily a bad thing since I feel like our season isn't going to end in an NFC West crown anyway.

I guess I could say I look at it like Kevin Lynch does in his radio interview...something is brewing here offensively, but it's gonna have to wait til next season to push us into the playoffs. There's a foundation to build on with Crabtree, VD, Gore, Hill, Morgan, and hopefully Smith. That's a nice core. Now if we can add a few (like 3 or 4) linemen this offseason, I know we'll make noise next year.

Oh and LOL @ the bolded, haha.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on what it will specifically take from Smith for you to be on board for bringing him back next year.

-9fA

To me it's less about TDs and INTs with Alex and more about moving the ball. This is why I still have some confidence in Smith coming out of this past game.

We gained 370 yards of offense (or something like that). Considering how feeble our offense has been in the past, that's an accomplishment. Our running game was solid as well. We actually passed to open up the run. The interceptions will disappear if he continues to improve. The key for him will be that he can't lose his aggressiveness or confidence in an attempt to limit turnovers. That's been his problem in the past. He has to eliminate the mistakes while still throwing the ball down the field.

Our offense is moving the ball better when we open it up for Smith, there's no question about this. Kudos to Raye for calling a good game vs. the Titans (minus the first and goal from the 10 series). We just have to put it together offensively and eliminate the mistakes. We'd be looking at the Tenn game a lot differently if our D stepped up as well. Not shifting the blame because 4 TOs will always kill you, but our defense didn't exactly shut down a Vince Young led offense.

I've been one of the biggest Smith haters but I really do think he's gonna get better as the season progresses. His timing SHOULD improve which should increase his accuracy. He does have nice zip on some of his passes, that's for sure.

If he continues to progress (I don't see the Tenn game as a HUGE setback because he still threw for 280), he deserves to start next season. He'll be our best option in any case since we won't want to start a rookie (if we draft one) and Nate Davis is, well, an unknown commodity.

He doesn't even have time to drop back and now you want him to pump fake? This OL is horrible.

There's an easier way. All he has to do is stop locking in on his WRs. He can move the safeties to the right just by moving his head to the right.

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
You can pump fake all you want but it's gonna stop balls from being tipped by the WR's.

-9fA

pump fakes are also not used whilly-nilly like in Madden. Take, for example, the Slant and Go, the sluggo. The route is dependent upon the receiver and the QB understanding the coverage, typically with the CB giving a cushion and looking in the backfield. When the receiver breaks to feign a slant, the QB pump fakes. this requires a lot of timing and confidence in the Oline to hold up, the receiver to sell the route with a good fake and of course, hoping the CB bites. This stuff comes from time together and trust between players, something this team has not had in 7 years.

Everyone likes to see Favre who does pump fake like crazy, manning, Brees, but these guys are elite passers, who have the utmost trust in their receivers and oline. If you expect Alex to do this, especially after almost 2 years off with new receivers and scheme, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

The last time I remember Alex doing a pump fake was in 06 against Denver, where he pumped to one side then went to Battle down the seam. This was after playing a whole season in the same scheme, with the same players and the team evolving with smith. It takes time. Smith doesn't have much time tho, so he does have to step up but we need to also lower our expectations. This team is just not as good as we want them to be.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Hey bubba, do you have any idea exactly how many pump fakes you used last Sun.? Yup, same # you used in game before that, game before that, and so on, right on thru to your first game with 49ers. Know how many pump fakes Eli, Peyton, Brady and Rothlisberger used on Sun? How about most any pass that wasn't a quick slant or out...say maybe 10, 15, 20 times for each qb in each game? Know how many of those were picked? None. How many resulted in completions? Virtually all. How many in TDs? Many.

Okay, Alex, realistically, you have no OL or a very poor OL for pass blocking. Granted. But for those times when you have a guy and you lock your eyeglobes in on him, everybody in the stadium, but especially the LBs, Corners or Safeties know where you are going with that pass. Many of those got picked or nearly so. IF you could just do 2 things, you would incr your chances of completions by over 20-30% of where you are now.

1) Dont' look or stare your receiver down. Obviously(i hope) the coaches have pointed that out to you, but son, you got to break that habit. And it is hard with a really poor OL. Nonetheless, you have to do it.

2)PUMP FAKE--you won't believe how many D backs will fall for it. YOur completion percentage will skyrocket and your Ws will too. YOu can be a very good QB if you could just add these 2 time worn items to your armamentarium. The 2 picks to morgan were both into double coverage, because you virtually stared at #84 from the time he left LOS. So don't. Alex, you are both smart and disciplined. Show us you can not stare your guy down, and for heaven sakes, show us the pump fake...and then show us again and again and again. Watch the Ws stack up.

I like number 1 and 2 that Don't look or Stare your receiver down because other CB or Safety can see Alex's head is the straight on point.. you know? So i wanna Alex need learning how Pump Fake! sigh.. it is really hard them Oline can't holding the defense.. Alex does know it so he is finally to threw it that quick a time! very good but need give him a time because plm is Oline can't give him a time! well.. Take Time if Alex is still improve and still wins then Oline will chance time and trust with him. Oline will possible protect the defense didn't allow a sack with Alex..

[ Edited by BuZzB28 on Nov 11, 2009 at 23:10:20 ]

Originally posted by BuZzB28:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Hey bubba, do you have any idea exactly how many pump fakes you used last Sun.? Yup, same # you used in game before that, game before that, and so on, right on thru to your first game with 49ers. Know how many pump fakes Eli, Peyton, Brady and Rothlisberger used on Sun? How about most any pass that wasn't a quick slant or out...say maybe 10, 15, 20 times for each qb in each game? Know how many of those were picked? None. How many resulted in completions? Virtually all. How many in TDs? Many.

Okay, Alex, realistically, you have no OL or a very poor OL for pass blocking. Granted. But for those times when you have a guy and you lock your eyeglobes in on him, everybody in the stadium, but especially the LBs, Corners or Safeties know where you are going with that pass. Many of those got picked or nearly so. IF you could just do 2 things, you would incr your chances of completions by over 20-30% of where you are now.

1) Dont' look or stare your receiver down. Obviously(i hope) the coaches have pointed that out to you, but son, you got to break that habit. And it is hard with a really poor OL. Nonetheless, you have to do it.

2)PUMP FAKE--you won't believe how many D backs will fall for it. YOur completion percentage will skyrocket and your Ws will too. YOu can be a very good QB if you could just add these 2 time worn items to your armamentarium. The 2 picks to morgan were both into double coverage, because you virtually stared at #84 from the time he left LOS. So don't. Alex, you are both smart and disciplined. Show us you can not stare your guy down, and for heaven sakes, show us the pump fake...and then show us again and again and again. Watch the Ws stack up.

I like number 1 and 2 that Don't look or Stare your receiver down because other CB or Safety can see Alex's head is the straight on point.. you know? So i wanna Alex need learning how Pump Fake! sigh.. it is really hard them Oline can't holding the defense.. Alex does know it so he is finally to threw it that quick a time! very good but need give him a time because plm is Oline can't give him a time! well.. Take Time if Alex is still improve and still wins then Oline will change and trust with him. Oline will possible protect the defense didn't allow a sack with Alex..

What?

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by BuZzB28:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Hey bubba, do you have any idea exactly how many pump fakes you used last Sun.? Yup, same # you used in game before that, game before that, and so on, right on thru to your first game with 49ers. Know how many pump fakes Eli, Peyton, Brady and Rothlisberger used on Sun? How about most any pass that wasn't a quick slant or out...say maybe 10, 15, 20 times for each qb in each game? Know how many of those were picked? None. How many resulted in completions? Virtually all. How many in TDs? Many.

Okay, Alex, realistically, you have no OL or a very poor OL for pass blocking. Granted. But for those times when you have a guy and you lock your eyeglobes in on him, everybody in the stadium, but especially the LBs, Corners or Safeties know where you are going with that pass. Many of those got picked or nearly so. IF you could just do 2 things, you would incr your chances of completions by over 20-30% of where you are now.

1) Dont' look or stare your receiver down. Obviously(i hope) the coaches have pointed that out to you, but son, you got to break that habit. And it is hard with a really poor OL. Nonetheless, you have to do it.

2)PUMP FAKE--you won't believe how many D backs will fall for it. YOur completion percentage will skyrocket and your Ws will too. YOu can be a very good QB if you could just add these 2 time worn items to your armamentarium. The 2 picks to morgan were both into double coverage, because you virtually stared at #84 from the time he left LOS. So don't. Alex, you are both smart and disciplined. Show us you can not stare your guy down, and for heaven sakes, show us the pump fake...and then show us again and again and again. Watch the Ws stack up.

I like number 1 and 2 that Don't look or Stare your receiver down because other CB or Safety can see Alex's head is the straight on point.. you know? So i wanna Alex need learning how Pump Fake! sigh.. it is really hard them Oline can't holding the defense.. Alex does know it so he is finally to threw it that quick a time! very good but need give him a time because plm is Oline can't give him a time! well.. Take Time if Alex is still improve and still wins then Oline will change and trust with him. Oline will possible protect the defense didn't allow a sack with Alex..

What?

Basically, to summarize, Alex and the OL right now aren't very beastly.

Give them time to gel, and they'll all be beastly.