Are we 2-0 if Alex was starting?

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:


Anyone here that is making the legitimate argument that Shaun is not what people think he is, just stop.

People hate Smith so much that they are unwilling to even concede the point that...

1) Shaun's stats reflect who he is. A back up playing in a Starting role.

2) That his arm is well below average and it affects the Offense(If this were the other way around Smith's likeness would be a smoldering pile of ashes by now) and that of the amount of time spent of the field by our Defense.

3) Superman Shaun Hill holds the ball too freakin long, and can cost us games when the opponent strip sacks him. Nevermind that it happened right in front of their disbelieving eyes.

This is behind a BETTER Offensive Line that Smith NEVER had in front of him.

It's too early to yank the plug. I just wish people would straight up call a Spade a Spade in regards to Hill. I've NEVER seen such one sided love for a guy that didn't deserve it.

Anyone remember the photoshop thread? I'd have to say well over 75% of the posts there were negatively about Kwame. Regardless if he deserved it or not.

What is Hill a freakin Liberal Democrat(Common man my ass) and Smith(Big business degree holder) *gasp* a Republican?

It's the ONLY thing that makes sense from the looks of things. People seem to be so full of hatred for anyone that has money that when they have 50 mil sitting in their account and "did nothing to earn it" they gotta be haters. So in the end I guess what I would like to know is if they got PAID that money instead of Smith would they return it for sitting on their butts and doing absolutely nothing to warrant the pay day?

They're lying if they say "Yes I would".

It's the system NOT the players.

The only difference that I see is that Smith CAN take chances because he has the arm to back it up. Does ANYONE truly believe that Smith will start freelancing if he was given the yob over Hill?

That's the quickest way right back to the bench on Sing's team. Nevermind that this has NEVER been about Smith. The haters only make it about Smith. This is about HILL and how poorly he IS playing. Y'all need ta get over yourselves.

~Ceadder

I think Smith people are too enamored with the fact that he could take chances because of his arm strength. Sure, he could. But he also throws more interceptions because of those chances, and right now, we can't afford that. The only reason people like Smith is because he has a stronger arm. Get over it. He has horrible footwork. He stares down receivers. He throws too many picks. He fumbles. He has bad accuracy. He makes bad decisions. He gets hurt a lot. He loses. Focus on reality and get off his precious throwing arm which is stronger than Hill's. Look, Brady doesn't have the strongest arm either. Steve Young didn't have a cannon. Montana didn't have a cannon. Garcia didn't have a cannon. They were good not because of their arm, but because of their mind. I would've loved to see Smith out there because of his physical talent, but there comes a time when you just have to move on. Hill wins games. He's smart. And we have a guy with a stronger arm sitting behind him: Nate Davis.

Ummm I think that GOAT and Taylor and just about anyone that ever caught a pass from Steve would disagree.

Smith doesn't have a "cannon" either. But what you are disregarding is not what happened, both good or bad, but that the Line in front of Smith has for the most part been atrocious. That will make even the good ones look bad. Steve had one of the WORST Lines in front of him when he played for the Bucs. They were getting him killed. So bad in fact that he determined that he was better off RUNNING the ball.

Only when he got to us and decided to be a QB, did he have success. Smith is in that boat NOW. I'm not and will NEVER state that he is a future HoF'er, but it's pretty damn sad that alot of 9er fans can't get over the past. It's past, right? What about the future? Smith looked pretty damn polished in OTAs' and TC as well as Preseason. His footwork was there, his decision making from what I could see, was there. And the players were responding to both players equally well.

So as much as people are dead set against Smith starting, it makes no sense, given that in the same situation that Hill is in Smith "can't" do the job. Even if he could be better.

Don't be too surprised if Hill falters much, that Smith gets the nod and does a better job. So far as this Line can continue to protect whomever is back there.

But c'mon guy, Nate? Do you REALLY want to take the chance and screw up HIS development? Like the team screwed up Alex's? Cause what Nate's supporters are saying is that he could do the job better than 1 and 2. This is not Preseason. There won't be an Opposing Defense that is made up primarily of 3rd and 4th teamers. And it's full speed, balls to the wall. Let that man sit and ruminate on what it takes to do the job. If the job isn't done well, he will see it. If it is, even better for his future. Which is what I wish that Nolan had done with Smith. Instead of throwing the kid to the wolves. Unfortunately injuries and a trade did not allow for that.

As much as I know I'm going to hear about this, I just want our coaching staff to learn from past mistakes.

~Ceadder

Well, you could argue that if Smith was drafted by a team with a good offense (good OL, RB, and WR) he'd be in much better shape. You could also say that if the 49ers kept Norv Turner and helped Smith out by keeping just one OC, he'd have different results. The problem is, he was drafted by the 49ers and they kept changing OCs. Nothing can change that. I'm not saying he's a horrible QB. I think it's possible for him to succeed. But, is he that much better than Hill to risk jeopardizing the entire season for? They went the safe route. Should Hill falter, Smith will come in and show what he's got, again.

By the way, all the circumstances you've brought up, Hill has had to overcome. And that's the difference between the two. Smith struggles because of the problems and people make excuses for him, while Hill finds a way to produce and win under the same circumstances. You have to imagine how Hill would fare with a better OL and a real set of WRs too. I like Smith. I think he has character and he's tough, but at this stage, I think Hill is the smart choice at QB. Let Davis learn a thing or two behind the veteran Hill.

NO ! (Alex who ?)

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:


Anyone here that is making the legitimate argument that Shaun is not what people think he is, just stop.

People hate Smith so much that they are unwilling to even concede the point that...

1) Shaun's stats reflect who he is. A back up playing in a Starting role.

2) That his arm is well below average and it affects the Offense(If this were the other way around Smith's likeness would be a smoldering pile of ashes by now) and that of the amount of time spent of the field by our Defense.

3) Superman Shaun Hill holds the ball too freakin long, and can cost us games when the opponent strip sacks him. Nevermind that it happened right in front of their disbelieving eyes.

This is behind a BETTER Offensive Line that Smith NEVER had in front of him.

It's too early to yank the plug. I just wish people would straight up call a Spade a Spade in regards to Hill. I've NEVER seen such one sided love for a guy that didn't deserve it.

Anyone remember the photoshop thread? I'd have to say well over 75% of the posts there were negatively about Kwame. Regardless if he deserved it or not.

What is Hill a freakin Liberal Democrat(Common man my ass) and Smith(Big business degree holder) *gasp* a Republican?

It's the ONLY thing that makes sense from the looks of things. People seem to be so full of hatred for anyone that has money that when they have 50 mil sitting in their account and "did nothing to earn it" they gotta be haters. So in the end I guess what I would like to know is if they got PAID that money instead of Smith would they return it for sitting on their butts and doing absolutely nothing to warrant the pay day?

They're lying if they say "Yes I would".

It's the system NOT the players.

The only difference that I see is that Smith CAN take chances because he has the arm to back it up. Does ANYONE truly believe that Smith will start freelancing if he was given the yob over Hill?

That's the quickest way right back to the bench on Sing's team. Nevermind that this has NEVER been about Smith. The haters only make it about Smith. This is about HILL and how poorly he IS playing. Y'all need ta get over yourselves.

~Ceadder

I think Smith people are too enamored with the fact that he could take chances because of his arm strength. Sure, he could. But he also throws more interceptions because of those chances, and right now, we can't afford that. The only reason people like Smith is because he has a stronger arm. Get over it. He has horrible footwork. He stares down receivers. He throws too many picks. He fumbles. He has bad accuracy. He makes bad decisions. He gets hurt a lot. He loses. Focus on reality and get off his precious throwing arm which is stronger than Hill's. Look, Brady doesn't have the strongest arm either. Steve Young didn't have a cannon. Montana didn't have a cannon. Garcia didn't have a cannon. They were good not because of their arm, but because of their mind. I would've loved to see Smith out there because of his physical talent, but there comes a time when you just have to move on. Hill wins games. He's smart. And we have a guy with a stronger arm sitting behind him: Nate Davis.

Ummm I think that GOAT and Taylor and just about anyone that ever caught a pass from Steve would disagree.

Smith doesn't have a "cannon" either. But what you are disregarding is not what happened, both good or bad, but that the Line in front of Smith has for the most part been atrocious. That will make even the good ones look bad. Steve had one of the WORST Lines in front of him when he played for the Bucs. They were getting him killed. So bad in fact that he determined that he was better off RUNNING the ball.

Only when he got to us and decided to be a QB, did he have success. Smith is in that boat NOW. I'm not and will NEVER state that he is a future HoF'er, but it's pretty damn sad that alot of 9er fans can't get over the past. It's past, right? What about the future? Smith looked pretty damn polished in OTAs' and TC as well as Preseason. His footwork was there, his decision making from what I could see, was there. And the players were responding to both players equally well.

So as much as people are dead set against Smith starting, it makes no sense, given that in the same situation that Hill is in Smith "can't" do the job. Even if he could be better.

Don't be too surprised if Hill falters much, that Smith gets the nod and does a better job. So far as this Line can continue to protect whomever is back there.

But c'mon guy, Nate? Do you REALLY want to take the chance and screw up HIS development? Like the team screwed up Alex's? Cause what Nate's supporters are saying is that he could do the job better than 1 and 2. This is not Preseason. There won't be an Opposing Defense that is made up primarily of 3rd and 4th teamers. And it's full speed, balls to the wall. Let that man sit and ruminate on what it takes to do the job. If the job isn't done well, he will see it. If it is, even better for his future. Which is what I wish that Nolan had done with Smith. Instead of throwing the kid to the wolves. Unfortunately injuries and a trade did not allow for that.

As much as I know I'm going to hear about this, I just want our coaching staff to learn from past mistakes.

~Ceadder

Well, you could argue that if Smith was drafted by a team with a good offense (good OL, RB, and WR) he'd be in much better shape. You could also say that if the 49ers kept Norv Turner and helped Smith out by keeping just one OC, he'd have different results. The problem is, he was drafted by the 49ers and they kept changing OCs. Nothing can change that. I'm not saying he's a horrible QB. I think it's possible for him to succeed. But, is he that much better than Hill to risk jeopardizing the entire season for? They went the safe route. Should Hill falter, Smith will come in and show what he's got, again.

By the way, all the circumstances you've brought up, Hill has had to overcome. And that's the difference between the two. Smith struggles because of the problems and people make excuses for him, while Hill finds a way to produce and win under the same circumstances. You have to imagine how Hill would fare with a better OL and a real set of WRs too. I like Smith. I think he has character and he's tough, but at this stage, I think Hill is the smart choice at QB. Let Davis learn a thing or two behind the veteran Hill.

Produce? What did he produce other than the W-L difference? I'm not disagreeing entirely, but so far it's only in the W-L column. Cause to me, if you gave Smith the exact same things that Hill has had going for him, the results would have been pretty much the same. Specifically the Line. So Hill has not produced in similar circumstances other than the year and year out OC change. That's nothing to be ecstatic about giving the stats. Especially when Smith's red zone stats are better than Hill's. Shaun gets Ws' to this point but I think that the rest of the team carries him, not the other way around.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:


Anyone here that is making the legitimate argument that Shaun is not what people think he is, just stop.

People hate Smith so much that they are unwilling to even concede the point that...

1) Shaun's stats reflect who he is. A back up playing in a Starting role.

2) That his arm is well below average and it affects the Offense(If this were the other way around Smith's likeness would be a smoldering pile of ashes by now) and that of the amount of time spent of the field by our Defense.

3) Superman Shaun Hill holds the ball too freakin long, and can cost us games when the opponent strip sacks him. Nevermind that it happened right in front of their disbelieving eyes.

This is behind a BETTER Offensive Line that Smith NEVER had in front of him.

It's too early to yank the plug. I just wish people would straight up call a Spade a Spade in regards to Hill. I've NEVER seen such one sided love for a guy that didn't deserve it.

Anyone remember the photoshop thread? I'd have to say well over 75% of the posts there were negatively about Kwame. Regardless if he deserved it or not.

What is Hill a freakin Liberal Democrat(Common man my ass) and Smith(Big business degree holder) *gasp* a Republican?

It's the ONLY thing that makes sense from the looks of things. People seem to be so full of hatred for anyone that has money that when they have 50 mil sitting in their account and "did nothing to earn it" they gotta be haters. So in the end I guess what I would like to know is if they got PAID that money instead of Smith would they return it for sitting on their butts and doing absolutely nothing to warrant the pay day?

They're lying if they say "Yes I would".

It's the system NOT the players.

The only difference that I see is that Smith CAN take chances because he has the arm to back it up. Does ANYONE truly believe that Smith will start freelancing if he was given the yob over Hill?

That's the quickest way right back to the bench on Sing's team. Nevermind that this has NEVER been about Smith. The haters only make it about Smith. This is about HILL and how poorly he IS playing. Y'all need ta get over yourselves.

~Ceadder

ok if hill is playing poorly than that make Alex paly is s**t cuz if i remember correctly that when JTO f**ked up sing benched him for Hill that mean Alex can't even beat Hill when he is playing poorly !

Originally posted by bigmike55:
No, we'd be 0-2 if Alex was starting.



Go Shaun Hill

Team was not as good in 2007 and was 2-0 with Alex starting.

Originally posted by alburns:
9-3 win loss for SH vs 11-19 for AS (9-14 if you throw out his rookie season).

game over.

This is the only stat that matters

And that is why you will never be confused with someone who has anything more than passing knowledge of Football.

If it's not a W you're not interested in the whys and wherefores of the game.

Sad really.

~Ceadder

Shaun Hill is a pie thrower so we should just trade our good receivers if we arent going to use them. (Morgan and Crabs)

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:


Anyone here that is making the legitimate argument that Shaun is not what people think he is, just stop.

People hate Smith so much that they are unwilling to even concede the point that...

1) Shaun's stats reflect who he is. A back up playing in a Starting role.

2) That his arm is well below average and it affects the Offense(If this were the other way around Smith's likeness would be a smoldering pile of ashes by now) and that of the amount of time spent of the field by our Defense.

3) Superman Shaun Hill holds the ball too freakin long, and can cost us games when the opponent strip sacks him. Nevermind that it happened right in front of their disbelieving eyes.

This is behind a BETTER Offensive Line that Smith NEVER had in front of him.

It's too early to yank the plug. I just wish people would straight up call a Spade a Spade in regards to Hill. I've NEVER seen such one sided love for a guy that didn't deserve it.

Anyone remember the photoshop thread? I'd have to say well over 75% of the posts there were negatively about Kwame. Regardless if he deserved it or not.

What is Hill a freakin Liberal Democrat(Common man my ass) and Smith(Big business degree holder) *gasp* a Republican?

It's the ONLY thing that makes sense from the looks of things. People seem to be so full of hatred for anyone that has money that when they have 50 mil sitting in their account and "did nothing to earn it" they gotta be haters. So in the end I guess what I would like to know is if they got PAID that money instead of Smith would they return it for sitting on their butts and doing absolutely nothing to warrant the pay day?

They're lying if they say "Yes I would".

It's the system NOT the players.

The only difference that I see is that Smith CAN take chances because he has the arm to back it up. Does ANYONE truly believe that Smith will start freelancing if he was given the yob over Hill?

That's the quickest way right back to the bench on Sing's team. Nevermind that this has NEVER been about Smith. The haters only make it about Smith. This is about HILL and how poorly he IS playing. Y'all need ta get over yourselves.

~Ceadder

I think Smith people are too enamored with the fact that he could take chances because of his arm strength. Sure, he could. But he also throws more interceptions because of those chances, and right now, we can't afford that. The only reason people like Smith is because he has a stronger arm. Get over it. He has horrible footwork. He stares down receivers. He throws too many picks. He fumbles. He has bad accuracy. He makes bad decisions. He gets hurt a lot. He loses. Focus on reality and get off his precious throwing arm which is stronger than Hill's. Look, Brady doesn't have the strongest arm either. Steve Young didn't have a cannon. Montana didn't have a cannon. Garcia didn't have a cannon. They were good not because of their arm, but because of their mind. I would've loved to see Smith out there because of his physical talent, but there comes a time when you just have to move on. Hill wins games. He's smart. And we have a guy with a stronger arm sitting behind him: Nate Davis.

Ummm I think that GOAT and Taylor and just about anyone that ever caught a pass from Steve would disagree.

Smith doesn't have a "cannon" either. But what you are disregarding is not what happened, both good or bad, but that the Line in front of Smith has for the most part been atrocious. That will make even the good ones look bad. Steve had one of the WORST Lines in front of him when he played for the Bucs. They were getting him killed. So bad in fact that he determined that he was better off RUNNING the ball.

Only when he got to us and decided to be a QB, did he have success. Smith is in that boat NOW. I'm not and will NEVER state that he is a future HoF'er, but it's pretty damn sad that alot of 9er fans can't get over the past. It's past, right? What about the future? Smith looked pretty damn polished in OTAs' and TC as well as Preseason. His footwork was there, his decision making from what I could see, was there. And the players were responding to both players equally well.

So as much as people are dead set against Smith starting, it makes no sense, given that in the same situation that Hill is in Smith "can't" do the job. Even if he could be better.

Don't be too surprised if Hill falters much, that Smith gets the nod and does a better job. So far as this Line can continue to protect whomever is back there.

But c'mon guy, Nate? Do you REALLY want to take the chance and screw up HIS development? Like the team screwed up Alex's? Cause what Nate's supporters are saying is that he could do the job better than 1 and 2. This is not Preseason. There won't be an Opposing Defense that is made up primarily of 3rd and 4th teamers. And it's full speed, balls to the wall. Let that man sit and ruminate on what it takes to do the job. If the job isn't done well, he will see it. If it is, even better for his future. Which is what I wish that Nolan had done with Smith. Instead of throwing the kid to the wolves. Unfortunately injuries and a trade did not allow for that.

As much as I know I'm going to hear about this, I just want our coaching staff to learn from past mistakes.

~Ceadder

Well, you could argue that if Smith was drafted by a team with a good offense (good OL, RB, and WR) he'd be in much better shape. You could also say that if the 49ers kept Norv Turner and helped Smith out by keeping just one OC, he'd have different results. The problem is, he was drafted by the 49ers and they kept changing OCs. Nothing can change that. I'm not saying he's a horrible QB. I think it's possible for him to succeed. But, is he that much better than Hill to risk jeopardizing the entire season for? They went the safe route. Should Hill falter, Smith will come in and show what he's got, again.

By the way, all the circumstances you've brought up, Hill has had to overcome. And that's the difference between the two. Smith struggles because of the problems and people make excuses for him, while Hill finds a way to produce and win under the same circumstances. You have to imagine how Hill would fare with a better OL and a real set of WRs too. I like Smith. I think he has character and he's tough, but at this stage, I think Hill is the smart choice at QB. Let Davis learn a thing or two behind the veteran Hill.

Produce? What did he produce other than the W-L difference? I'm not disagreeing entirely, but so far it's only in the W-L column. Cause to me, if you gave Smith the exact same things that Hill has had going for him, the results would have been pretty much the same. Specifically the Line. So Hill has not produced in similar circumstances other than the year and year out OC change. That's nothing to be ecstatic about giving the stats. Especially when Smith's red zone stats are better than Hill's. Shaun gets Ws' to this point but I think that the rest of the team carries him, not the other way around.

~Ceadder

Yeah, cause when Smith plays....the team just gives up and decides it wouldnt make sense to move the chains on offense and score points, right ? Twist it as much as you like, but the truth is that Hill PRODUCES, and thats why the Niners win. He sustains drives, moves the chains, and has shown the ability to create something from a dead play. Yeah, he's no Montana or Young; but he sure as hell aint Alex Smith, who was the KING of throwing it out of bounds on 3rd down, not to mention the barrage of short passes he would complete on 3rd down situations which would force us to punt.

And considering that Alex Smith accomplished all this while working with the first team, as opposed to Shaun Hill who accomplished MORE practicing with the 3rd team, it kinda shows you just how far apart Hill and Smith are in terms of talent. The only "edge" you guys (Smith supporters) have is that Hill is not Tom Brady or Manning bros. in talent, and therefore you guys feel you can call him out on every duck, miscue, fumble, etc. that he makes. What you wont acknowledge is that Hill offers more to the team when our rushing attack is down; which btw spelled doom while Smith was in charge offense.

But go ahead..........remind us how great Alex was against Zona and Seattle in those 2 specific drives, so we can drool and wait for the heir apparent to mature and eventually take charge of this team.

Originally posted by cNiner:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:


Anyone here that is making the legitimate argument that Shaun is not what people think he is, just stop.

People hate Smith so much that they are unwilling to even concede the point that...

1) Shaun's stats reflect who he is. A back up playing in a Starting role.

2) That his arm is well below average and it affects the Offense(If this were the other way around Smith's likeness would be a smoldering pile of ashes by now) and that of the amount of time spent of the field by our Defense.

3) Superman Shaun Hill holds the ball too freakin long, and can cost us games when the opponent strip sacks him. Nevermind that it happened right in front of their disbelieving eyes.

This is behind a BETTER Offensive Line that Smith NEVER had in front of him.

It's too early to yank the plug. I just wish people would straight up call a Spade a Spade in regards to Hill. I've NEVER seen such one sided love for a guy that didn't deserve it.

Anyone remember the photoshop thread? I'd have to say well over 75% of the posts there were negatively about Kwame. Regardless if he deserved it or not.

What is Hill a freakin Liberal Democrat(Common man my ass) and Smith(Big business degree holder) *gasp* a Republican?

It's the ONLY thing that makes sense from the looks of things. People seem to be so full of hatred for anyone that has money that when they have 50 mil sitting in their account and "did nothing to earn it" they gotta be haters. So in the end I guess what I would like to know is if they got PAID that money instead of Smith would they return it for sitting on their butts and doing absolutely nothing to warrant the pay day?

They're lying if they say "Yes I would".

It's the system NOT the players.

The only difference that I see is that Smith CAN take chances because he has the arm to back it up. Does ANYONE truly believe that Smith will start freelancing if he was given the yob over Hill?

That's the quickest way right back to the bench on Sing's team. Nevermind that this has NEVER been about Smith. The haters only make it about Smith. This is about HILL and how poorly he IS playing. Y'all need ta get over yourselves.

~Ceadder

ok if hill is playing poorly than that make Alex paly is s**t cuz if i remember correctly that when JTO f**ked up sing benched him for Hill that mean Alex can't even beat Hill when he is playing poorly !

What? Hill is still the Starter, true. But dude if you think that Hill "owns" that position because Smith can't out perform him...

...Let's just say that it's 2 losses away from going the other way. I doubt that Sing will be as patient as Nolan was when it comes to Losses. Especially if Hill continues to perform to the same level that he always has. 3 yards and a cloud of dust and Defense wins championships will only get this team so far in the season.

I honestly want Hill to prove me wrong. Cause if I am wrong we are WINNING. If not well, not much more I can tell you except that Hill performed exactly to the expectations that were placed upon his shoulders and failed.

~Ceadder

16 pages and counting...way to go guys!

shaun wins, alex doesn't

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:


Anyone here that is making the legitimate argument that Shaun is not what people think he is, just stop.

People hate Smith so much that they are unwilling to even concede the point that...

1) Shaun's stats reflect who he is. A back up playing in a Starting role.

2) That his arm is well below average and it affects the Offense(If this were the other way around Smith's likeness would be a smoldering pile of ashes by now) and that of the amount of time spent of the field by our Defense.

3) Superman Shaun Hill holds the ball too freakin long, and can cost us games when the opponent strip sacks him. Nevermind that it happened right in front of their disbelieving eyes.

This is behind a BETTER Offensive Line that Smith NEVER had in front of him.

It's too early to yank the plug. I just wish people would straight up call a Spade a Spade in regards to Hill. I've NEVER seen such one sided love for a guy that didn't deserve it.

Anyone remember the photoshop thread? I'd have to say well over 75% of the posts there were negatively about Kwame. Regardless if he deserved it or not.

What is Hill a freakin Liberal Democrat(Common man my ass) and Smith(Big business degree holder) *gasp* a Republican?

It's the ONLY thing that makes sense from the looks of things. People seem to be so full of hatred for anyone that has money that when they have 50 mil sitting in their account and "did nothing to earn it" they gotta be haters. So in the end I guess what I would like to know is if they got PAID that money instead of Smith would they return it for sitting on their butts and doing absolutely nothing to warrant the pay day?

They're lying if they say "Yes I would".

It's the system NOT the players.

The only difference that I see is that Smith CAN take chances because he has the arm to back it up. Does ANYONE truly believe that Smith will start freelancing if he was given the yob over Hill?

That's the quickest way right back to the bench on Sing's team. Nevermind that this has NEVER been about Smith. The haters only make it about Smith. This is about HILL and how poorly he IS playing. Y'all need ta get over yourselves.

~Ceadder

I think Smith people are too enamored with the fact that he could take chances because of his arm strength. Sure, he could. But he also throws more interceptions because of those chances, and right now, we can't afford that. The only reason people like Smith is because he has a stronger arm. Get over it. He has horrible footwork. He stares down receivers. He throws too many picks. He fumbles. He has bad accuracy. He makes bad decisions. He gets hurt a lot. He loses. Focus on reality and get off his precious throwing arm which is stronger than Hill's. Look, Brady doesn't have the strongest arm either. Steve Young didn't have a cannon. Montana didn't have a cannon. Garcia didn't have a cannon. They were good not because of their arm, but because of their mind. I would've loved to see Smith out there because of his physical talent, but there comes a time when you just have to move on. Hill wins games. He's smart. And we have a guy with a stronger arm sitting behind him: Nate Davis.

Ummm I think that GOAT and Taylor and just about anyone that ever caught a pass from Steve would disagree.

Smith doesn't have a "cannon" either. But what you are disregarding is not what happened, both good or bad, but that the Line in front of Smith has for the most part been atrocious. That will make even the good ones look bad. Steve had one of the WORST Lines in front of him when he played for the Bucs. They were getting him killed. So bad in fact that he determined that he was better off RUNNING the ball.

Only when he got to us and decided to be a QB, did he have success. Smith is in that boat NOW. I'm not and will NEVER state that he is a future HoF'er, but it's pretty damn sad that alot of 9er fans can't get over the past. It's past, right? What about the future? Smith looked pretty damn polished in OTAs' and TC as well as Preseason. His footwork was there, his decision making from what I could see, was there. And the players were responding to both players equally well.

So as much as people are dead set against Smith starting, it makes no sense, given that in the same situation that Hill is in Smith "can't" do the job. Even if he could be better.

Don't be too surprised if Hill falters much, that Smith gets the nod and does a better job. So far as this Line can continue to protect whomever is back there.

But c'mon guy, Nate? Do you REALLY want to take the chance and screw up HIS development? Like the team screwed up Alex's? Cause what Nate's supporters are saying is that he could do the job better than 1 and 2. This is not Preseason. There won't be an Opposing Defense that is made up primarily of 3rd and 4th teamers. And it's full speed, balls to the wall. Let that man sit and ruminate on what it takes to do the job. If the job isn't done well, he will see it. If it is, even better for his future. Which is what I wish that Nolan had done with Smith. Instead of throwing the kid to the wolves. Unfortunately injuries and a trade did not allow for that.

As much as I know I'm going to hear about this, I just want our coaching staff to learn from past mistakes.

~Ceadder

Well, you could argue that if Smith was drafted by a team with a good offense (good OL, RB, and WR) he'd be in much better shape. You could also say that if the 49ers kept Norv Turner and helped Smith out by keeping just one OC, he'd have different results. The problem is, he was drafted by the 49ers and they kept changing OCs. Nothing can change that. I'm not saying he's a horrible QB. I think it's possible for him to succeed. But, is he that much better than Hill to risk jeopardizing the entire season for? They went the safe route. Should Hill falter, Smith will come in and show what he's got, again.

By the way, all the circumstances you've brought up, Hill has had to overcome. And that's the difference between the two. Smith struggles because of the problems and people make excuses for him, while Hill finds a way to produce and win under the same circumstances. You have to imagine how Hill would fare with a better OL and a real set of WRs too. I like Smith. I think he has character and he's tough, but at this stage, I think Hill is the smart choice at QB. Let Davis learn a thing or two behind the veteran Hill.

Produce? What did he produce other than the W-L difference? I'm not disagreeing entirely, but so far it's only in the W-L column. Cause to me, if you gave Smith the exact same things that Hill has had going for him, the results would have been pretty much the same. Specifically the Line. So Hill has not produced in similar circumstances other than the year and year out OC change. That's nothing to be ecstatic about giving the stats. Especially when Smith's red zone stats are better than Hill's. Shaun gets Ws' to this point but I think that the rest of the team carries him, not the other way around.

~Ceadder

Yeah, cause when Smith plays....the team just gives up and decides it wouldnt make sense to move the chains on offense and score points, right ? Twist it as much as you like, but the truth is that Hill PRODUCES, and thats why the Niners win. He sustains drives, moves the chains, and has shown the ability to create something from a dead play. Yeah, he's no Montana or Young; but he sure as hell aint Alex Smith, who was the KING of throwing it out of bounds on 3rd down, not to mention the barrage of short passes he would complete on 3rd down situations which would force us to punt.

And considering that Alex Smith accomplished all this while working with the first team, as opposed to Shaun Hill who accomplished MORE practicing with the 3rd team, it kinda shows you just how far apart Hill and Smith are in terms of talent. The only "edge" you guys (Smith supporters) have is that Hill is not Tom Brady or Manning bros. in talent, and therefore you guys feel you can call him out on every duck, miscue, fumble, etc. that he makes. What you wont acknowledge is that Hill offers more to the team when our rushing attack is down; which btw spelled doom while Smith was in charge offense.

But go ahead..........remind us how great Alex was against Zona and Seattle in those 2 specific drives, so we can drool and wait for the heir apparent to mature and eventually take charge of this team.

Twist what? Refute the FACTS my man. Refute the facts.

You won't because you can't. Smith's Red Zone STATS are just a bit better than Hill's. The 3 and outs will CONTINUE to pile up for Shaun. And that is also a FACT brother.

Sorry if you're still butt hurt over Nolan picking Smith instead of your ideal hindsight is 20/20 choice, but the guy had been mishandled his entire career. If that's his fault then he should be gone. If not I would hate the people responsible not the player. It's not like he had control over what has happened to him. Right?

But this is the last time me and you speak about such things because it only gets you worked up ZRF. Peace.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by alburns:
9-3 win loss for SH vs 11-19 for AS (9-14 if you throw out his rookie season).

game over.

This is the only stat that matters

And that is why you will never be confused with someone who has anything more than passing knowledge of Football.

If it's not a W you're not interested in the whys and wherefores of the game.

Sad really.

~Ceadder

What the hell are you talking about here? Do you want stats? Every stat says that Hill is the better QB PASSING the ball as well. QB Rating? Yards per game? TDs to INTs? YPA?

NOTHING says Alex Smith is a better QB. Wins, losses, stats. EVERYTHING points to Hill being the more successful and BETTER QB...which he is.

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:


Anyone here that is making the legitimate argument that Shaun is not what people think he is, just stop.

People hate Smith so much that they are unwilling to even concede the point that...

1) Shaun's stats reflect who he is. A back up playing in a Starting role.

2) That his arm is well below average and it affects the Offense(If this were the other way around Smith's likeness would be a smoldering pile of ashes by now) and that of the amount of time spent of the field by our Defense.

3) Superman Shaun Hill holds the ball too freakin long, and can cost us games when the opponent strip sacks him. Nevermind that it happened right in front of their disbelieving eyes.

This is behind a BETTER Offensive Line that Smith NEVER had in front of him.

It's too early to yank the plug. I just wish people would straight up call a Spade a Spade in regards to Hill. I've NEVER seen such one sided love for a guy that didn't deserve it.

Anyone remember the photoshop thread? I'd have to say well over 75% of the posts there were negatively about Kwame. Regardless if he deserved it or not.

What is Hill a freakin Liberal Democrat(Common man my ass) and Smith(Big business degree holder) *gasp* a Republican?

It's the ONLY thing that makes sense from the looks of things. People seem to be so full of hatred for anyone that has money that when they have 50 mil sitting in their account and "did nothing to earn it" they gotta be haters. So in the end I guess what I would like to know is if they got PAID that money instead of Smith would they return it for sitting on their butts and doing absolutely nothing to warrant the pay day?

They're lying if they say "Yes I would".

It's the system NOT the players.

The only difference that I see is that Smith CAN take chances because he has the arm to back it up. Does ANYONE truly believe that Smith will start freelancing if he was given the yob over Hill?

That's the quickest way right back to the bench on Sing's team. Nevermind that this has NEVER been about Smith. The haters only make it about Smith. This is about HILL and how poorly he IS playing. Y'all need ta get over yourselves.

~Ceadder

I think Smith people are too enamored with the fact that he could take chances because of his arm strength. Sure, he could. But he also throws more interceptions because of those chances, and right now, we can't afford that. The only reason people like Smith is because he has a stronger arm. Get over it. He has horrible footwork. He stares down receivers. He throws too many picks. He fumbles. He has bad accuracy. He makes bad decisions. He gets hurt a lot. He loses. Focus on reality and get off his precious throwing arm which is stronger than Hill's. Look, Brady doesn't have the strongest arm either. Steve Young didn't have a cannon. Montana didn't have a cannon. Garcia didn't have a cannon. They were good not because of their arm, but because of their mind. I would've loved to see Smith out there because of his physical talent, but there comes a time when you just have to move on. Hill wins games. He's smart. And we have a guy with a stronger arm sitting behind him: Nate Davis.

Ummm I think that GOAT and Taylor and just about anyone that ever caught a pass from Steve would disagree.

Smith doesn't have a "cannon" either. But what you are disregarding is not what happened, both good or bad, but that the Line in front of Smith has for the most part been atrocious. That will make even the good ones look bad. Steve had one of the WORST Lines in front of him when he played for the Bucs. They were getting him killed. So bad in fact that he determined that he was better off RUNNING the ball.

Only when he got to us and decided to be a QB, did he have success. Smith is in that boat NOW. I'm not and will NEVER state that he is a future HoF'er, but it's pretty damn sad that alot of 9er fans can't get over the past. It's past, right? What about the future? Smith looked pretty damn polished in OTAs' and TC as well as Preseason. His footwork was there, his decision making from what I could see, was there. And the players were responding to both players equally well.

So as much as people are dead set against Smith starting, it makes no sense, given that in the same situation that Hill is in Smith "can't" do the job. Even if he could be better.

Don't be too surprised if Hill falters much, that Smith gets the nod and does a better job. So far as this Line can continue to protect whomever is back there.

But c'mon guy, Nate? Do you REALLY want to take the chance and screw up HIS development? Like the team screwed up Alex's? Cause what Nate's supporters are saying is that he could do the job better than 1 and 2. This is not Preseason. There won't be an Opposing Defense that is made up primarily of 3rd and 4th teamers. And it's full speed, balls to the wall. Let that man sit and ruminate on what it takes to do the job. If the job isn't done well, he will see it. If it is, even better for his future. Which is what I wish that Nolan had done with Smith. Instead of throwing the kid to the wolves. Unfortunately injuries and a trade did not allow for that.

As much as I know I'm going to hear about this, I just want our coaching staff to learn from past mistakes.

~Ceadder

Well, you could argue that if Smith was drafted by a team with a good offense (good OL, RB, and WR) he'd be in much better shape. You could also say that if the 49ers kept Norv Turner and helped Smith out by keeping just one OC, he'd have different results. The problem is, he was drafted by the 49ers and they kept changing OCs. Nothing can change that. I'm not saying he's a horrible QB. I think it's possible for him to succeed. But, is he that much better than Hill to risk jeopardizing the entire season for? They went the safe route. Should Hill falter, Smith will come in and show what he's got, again.

By the way, all the circumstances you've brought up, Hill has had to overcome. And that's the difference between the two. Smith struggles because of the problems and people make excuses for him, while Hill finds a way to produce and win under the same circumstances. You have to imagine how Hill would fare with a better OL and a real set of WRs too. I like Smith. I think he has character and he's tough, but at this stage, I think Hill is the smart choice at QB. Let Davis learn a thing or two behind the veteran Hill.

Produce? What did he produce other than the W-L difference? I'm not disagreeing entirely, but so far it's only in the W-L column. Cause to me, if you gave Smith the exact same things that Hill has had going for him, the results would have been pretty much the same. Specifically the Line. So Hill has not produced in similar circumstances other than the year and year out OC change. That's nothing to be ecstatic about giving the stats. Especially when Smith's red zone stats are better than Hill's. Shaun gets Ws' to this point but I think that the rest of the team carries him, not the other way around.

~Ceadder

Yeah, cause when Smith plays....the team just gives up and decides it wouldnt make sense to move the chains on offense and score points, right ? Twist it as much as you like, but the truth is that Hill PRODUCES, and thats why the Niners win. He sustains drives, moves the chains, and has shown the ability to create something from a dead play. Yeah, he's no Montana or Young; but he sure as hell aint Alex Smith, who was the KING of throwing it out of bounds on 3rd down, not to mention the barrage of short passes he would complete on 3rd down situations which would force us to punt.

And considering that Alex Smith accomplished all this while working with the first team, as opposed to Shaun Hill who accomplished MORE practicing with the 3rd team, it kinda shows you just how far apart Hill and Smith are in terms of talent. The only "edge" you guys (Smith supporters) have is that Hill is not Tom Brady or Manning bros. in talent, and therefore you guys feel you can call him out on every duck, miscue, fumble, etc. that he makes. What you wont acknowledge is that Hill offers more to the team when our rushing attack is down; which btw spelled doom while Smith was in charge offense.

But go ahead..........remind us how great Alex was against Zona and Seattle in those 2 specific drives, so we can drool and wait for the heir apparent to mature and eventually take charge of this team.

Twist what? Refute the FACTS my man. Refute the facts.

You won't because you can't. Smith's Red Zone STATS are just a bit better than Hill's. The 3 and outs will CONTINUE to pile up for Shaun. And that is also a FACT brother.

Sorry if you're still butt hurt over Nolan picking Smith instead of your ideal hindsight is 20/20 choice, but the guy had been mishandled his entire career. If that's his fault then he should be gone. If not I would hate the people responsible not the player. It's not like he had control over what has happened to him. Right?

But this is the last time me and you speak about such things because it only gets you worked up ZRF. Peace.

~Ceadder

Again, you love to use key words like "mishandled", yet Hill was "mishandled" in a similar way, except he found ways to produce. You like to brag about Smith's red zone percentage like he was putting up points like the 94 Niners. I dont think you and I were watching the same games.....

Truth be told, the evidence sits in front of your face. I dont have to compare apples and oranges here. Im supporting a QB that has a 9-3 record, led our team to victory with his ARM against a Superbowl caliber team, and finds ways to move chains when the going gets tough. I could never say the same for Alex Smith, and if I recall...........you've been spouting the same excuses for him the last 3 years. And thats why, on this issue, you and your ilk (Method, Lambda, etc.) will never be taken seriously.

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:


Anyone here that is making the legitimate argument that Shaun is not what people think he is, just stop.

People hate Smith so much that they are unwilling to even concede the point that...

1) Shaun's stats reflect who he is. A back up playing in a Starting role.

2) That his arm is well below average and it affects the Offense(If this were the other way around Smith's likeness would be a smoldering pile of ashes by now) and that of the amount of time spent of the field by our Defense.

3) Superman Shaun Hill holds the ball too freakin long, and can cost us games when the opponent strip sacks him. Nevermind that it happened right in front of their disbelieving eyes.

This is behind a BETTER Offensive Line that Smith NEVER had in front of him.

It's too early to yank the plug. I just wish people would straight up call a Spade a Spade in regards to Hill. I've NEVER seen such one sided love for a guy that didn't deserve it.

Anyone remember the photoshop thread? I'd have to say well over 75% of the posts there were negatively about Kwame. Regardless if he deserved it or not.

What is Hill a freakin Liberal Democrat(Common man my ass) and Smith(Big business degree holder) *gasp* a Republican?

It's the ONLY thing that makes sense from the looks of things. People seem to be so full of hatred for anyone that has money that when they have 50 mil sitting in their account and "did nothing to earn it" they gotta be haters. So in the end I guess what I would like to know is if they got PAID that money instead of Smith would they return it for sitting on their butts and doing absolutely nothing to warrant the pay day?

They're lying if they say "Yes I would".

It's the system NOT the players.

The only difference that I see is that Smith CAN take chances because he has the arm to back it up. Does ANYONE truly believe that Smith will start freelancing if he was given the yob over Hill?

That's the quickest way right back to the bench on Sing's team. Nevermind that this has NEVER been about Smith. The haters only make it about Smith. This is about HILL and how poorly he IS playing. Y'all need ta get over yourselves.

~Ceadder

I think Smith people are too enamored with the fact that he could take chances because of his arm strength. Sure, he could. But he also throws more interceptions because of those chances, and right now, we can't afford that. The only reason people like Smith is because he has a stronger arm. Get over it. He has horrible footwork. He stares down receivers. He throws too many picks. He fumbles. He has bad accuracy. He makes bad decisions. He gets hurt a lot. He loses. Focus on reality and get off his precious throwing arm which is stronger than Hill's. Look, Brady doesn't have the strongest arm either. Steve Young didn't have a cannon. Montana didn't have a cannon. Garcia didn't have a cannon. They were good not because of their arm, but because of their mind. I would've loved to see Smith out there because of his physical talent, but there comes a time when you just have to move on. Hill wins games. He's smart. And we have a guy with a stronger arm sitting behind him: Nate Davis.

Ummm I think that GOAT and Taylor and just about anyone that ever caught a pass from Steve would disagree.

Smith doesn't have a "cannon" either. But what you are disregarding is not what happened, both good or bad, but that the Line in front of Smith has for the most part been atrocious. That will make even the good ones look bad. Steve had one of the WORST Lines in front of him when he played for the Bucs. They were getting him killed. So bad in fact that he determined that he was better off RUNNING the ball.

Only when he got to us and decided to be a QB, did he have success. Smith is in that boat NOW. I'm not and will NEVER state that he is a future HoF'er, but it's pretty damn sad that alot of 9er fans can't get over the past. It's past, right? What about the future? Smith looked pretty damn polished in OTAs' and TC as well as Preseason. His footwork was there, his decision making from what I could see, was there. And the players were responding to both players equally well.

So as much as people are dead set against Smith starting, it makes no sense, given that in the same situation that Hill is in Smith "can't" do the job. Even if he could be better.

Don't be too surprised if Hill falters much, that Smith gets the nod and does a better job. So far as this Line can continue to protect whomever is back there.

But c'mon guy, Nate? Do you REALLY want to take the chance and screw up HIS development? Like the team screwed up Alex's? Cause what Nate's supporters are saying is that he could do the job better than 1 and 2. This is not Preseason. There won't be an Opposing Defense that is made up primarily of 3rd and 4th teamers. And it's full speed, balls to the wall. Let that man sit and ruminate on what it takes to do the job. If the job isn't done well, he will see it. If it is, even better for his future. Which is what I wish that Nolan had done with Smith. Instead of throwing the kid to the wolves. Unfortunately injuries and a trade did not allow for that.

As much as I know I'm going to hear about this, I just want our coaching staff to learn from past mistakes.

~Ceadder

Ceadder.. I feel your pain and completely agree with every factual, rational point you make, but face it, this argument is futile. The last time we saw a healthy Alex Smith playing in a real game, he looked good, the team was 2-0 and the future looked bright for him and Shaun Hill was a 3rd string emergency QB. Then Larry Allen blew a blocking assignment and now he is being labeled by many around here as the worst QB ever to suit up for the 49ers.

Nothing you can say will convince the Shaun Hill lovers otherwise. I was/am in the Alex Smith camp, not because I hate on Shaun Hill, but because IMO Alex's skills would make the 49er offense more dynamic, more multi dimensional and would force opposing defenses to defend the whole field, not just 20 yards of it.

I am first and foremost a 49er fan and will root like a maniac for them regardless of who lines up behind center. But I do believe that Sooner or later the clock will strike 12 and Hill will turn back into a pumpkin and Alex will get another shot.