So... is it Hill or is it our W.R.'s?

We have a rough stretch of games coming up after the Rams game.

ATL
Bye
@HOU
@IND
CHI
@GB

Now, what happens after this is all said and done if we're staring at a 4-5 record? Do we still keep saying, "Well, Hill is in a defined offense and we're winning?" I just don't think it matters much that we're 2-0. We need to play better on offense if we're going to get anywhere. What good is a 1st round exit from the playoffs, assuming we even get there? The bottom line is the passing game must improve because being 2-0 is not going to be an excuse forever.

Originally posted by whole49yards:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Singletary on Hill and the offense:

Singletary said he wants the defense, running game - and specifically, the offensive line - to be the areas on which the 49ers will rely this season.

The 49ers want to control the game and the clock with its running attack. They have accomplished that, as well, with an average six-minute advantage in time of possession.

“I believe that what he’s doing right now has been good enough the first two games,” Singletary said. “Going forward, to start with, we’re going to run the ball. We’re going to have to run the ball, and as we run the ball and Shaun Hill makes some plays here and there and as he gets more comfortable, he can open it up a bit.”

This probably isn't much a surprise to anyone but it does show you that this offensive philosophy of being conservative starts with Singletary and as Hill and the rest of the team gets more used to Raye's (NEW OFFENSE) Hill will be allowed to open up the offense more down the road. This is a good sign. Once the o-line solidifies, the WR's can be counted on, etc. we should start to see new wrinkles in the offense.

I'm hoping they start allowing Hill to audible out at times. That alone can REALLY make this offense more effective. No question.

This is the exact message from Coach that I wanted to point out! We have a QB who is operating in a defined offense and is able to make the smart plays and as such we are 2-0.

I think everybody realizes that Hill is the best chance we have at winning under those constaints. However, as Coach has pointed out, he is looking for Hill to get comfortable with this brand of offense and the limitations of the players around him.
I liken it to Walsh preparing Montana to move the offense we had so many years ago by allowing him to have success in small doses until he was ready--READY -- to take the team on his shoulders. Montana was a leader, I think Hill is a leader from what the players around him boast in his presence and leadership during game situations.

Now it is time to vent---Smith is never going to lead this team along the lines mentioned above. He is a number 1 draft pick beaten out by a undrafted player after 4 years in the league. Just looking at successful first round picks who have come into the NFL and started right off and had success and its easy to come to the conclusion that Smith is not the savior of this team. This TEAM doesn't need a savior, it needs players to win every snap against the man in front of them.

This is 49er football now and for the forseeable future under Mike Singletary.

My hope is contained in the message copied from previous post that Shawn Hill will continue to increase his effectiveness in this system of ball control w/ the absence of turn-overs and that will lead to a victorious TEAM for many years to come.

I also think Davis is the future at QB. Just not this season.

Aloha

Great post!

Originally posted by B650:
We have a rough stretch of games coming up after the Rams game.

ATL
Bye
@HOU
@IND
CHI
@GB

Now, what happens after this is all said and done if we're staring at a 4-5 record? Do we still keep saying, "Well, Hill is in a defined offense and we're winning?" I just don't think it matters much that we're 2-0. We need to play better on offense if we're going to get anywhere. What good is a 1st round exit from the playoffs, assuming we even get there? The bottom line is the passing game must improve because being 2-0 is not going to be an excuse forever.

If our D keeps playing the way they have been, they will keep us in the game against every one of those teams. Doesnt mean we will win or lose, but I dont see any of those teams lighting us up. Other than ATL and GB, I think all of them have questions like we do. GB sure did make a case for having holes though when they lost to the Bengals.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by whole49yards:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Singletary on Hill and the offense:

Singletary said he wants the defense, running game - and specifically, the offensive line - to be the areas on which the 49ers will rely this season.

The 49ers want to control the game and the clock with its running attack. They have accomplished that, as well, with an average six-minute advantage in time of possession.

“I believe that what he’s doing right now has been good enough the first two games,” Singletary said. “Going forward, to start with, we’re going to run the ball. We’re going to have to run the ball, and as we run the ball and Shaun Hill makes some plays here and there and as he gets more comfortable, he can open it up a bit.”

This probably isn't much a surprise to anyone but it does show you that this offensive philosophy of being conservative starts with Singletary and as Hill and the rest of the team gets more used to Raye's (NEW OFFENSE) Hill will be allowed to open up the offense more down the road. This is a good sign. Once the o-line solidifies, the WR's can be counted on, etc. we should start to see new wrinkles in the offense.

I'm hoping they start allowing Hill to audible out at times. That alone can REALLY make this offense more effective. No question.

This is the exact message from Coach that I wanted to point out! We have a QB who is operating in a defined offense and is able to make the smart plays and as such we are 2-0.

I think everybody realizes that Hill is the best chance we have at winning under those constaints. However, as Coach has pointed out, he is looking for Hill to get comfortable with this brand of offense and the limitations of the players around him.
I liken it to Walsh preparing Montana to move the offense we had so many years ago by allowing him to have success in small doses until he was ready--READY -- to take the team on his shoulders. Montana was a leader, I think Hill is a leader from what the players around him boast in his presence and leadership during game situations.

Now it is time to vent---Smith is never going to lead this team along the lines mentioned above. He is a number 1 draft pick beaten out by a undrafted player after 4 years in the league. Just looking at successful first round picks who have come into the NFL and started right off and had success and its easy to come to the conclusion that Smith is not the savior of this team. This TEAM doesn't need a savior, it needs players to win every snap against the man in front of them.

This is 49er football now and for the forseeable future under Mike Singletary.

My hope is contained in the message copied from previous post that Shawn Hill will continue to increase his effectiveness in this system of ball control w/ the absence of turn-overs and that will lead to a victorious TEAM for many years to come.

I also think Davis is the future at QB. Just not this season.

Aloha

Great post!

Right on.

Originally posted by B650:
We have a rough stretch of games coming up after the Rams game.

ATL
Bye
@HOU
@IND
CHI
@GB

Now, what happens after this is all said and done if we're staring at a 4-5 record? Do we still keep saying, "Well, Hill is in a defined offense and we're winning?" I just don't think it matters much that we're 2-0. We need to play better on offense if we're going to get anywhere. What good is a 1st round exit from the playoffs, assuming we even get there? The bottom line is the passing game must improve because being 2-0 is not going to be an excuse forever.

I don't think anyone is arguing that. People are merely recognizing that Singletary/Raye have put onus on the RB's and o-line and defense to win games NOW. As Hill and the rest of the NEW offense under Raye morph into (hopefully) productivity, we'll start to see Hill emerge more as the playbook is opened up.

But to put the blame on Hill and make inaccurate claims about his weak arm or his inability to make 20+ yard passes and how THAT is handcuffing Raye's offense is off the mark IMHO.

People need to look at the bigger picture...or at least review all his games from last year and see how different he is this year so far and put two-and-two together on their own.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by B650:
We have a rough stretch of games coming up after the Rams game.

ATL
Bye
@HOU
@IND
CHI
@GB

Now, what happens after this is all said and done if we're staring at a 4-5 record? Do we still keep saying, "Well, Hill is in a defined offense and we're winning?" I just don't think it matters much that we're 2-0. We need to play better on offense if we're going to get anywhere. What good is a 1st round exit from the playoffs, assuming we even get there? The bottom line is the passing game must improve because being 2-0 is not going to be an excuse forever.

I don't think anyone is arguing that. People are merely recognizing that Singletary/Raye have put onus on the RB's and o-line and defense to win games NOW. As Hill and the rest of the NEW offense under Raye morph into (hopefully) productivity, we'll start to see Hill emerge more as the playbook is opened up.

But to put the blame on Hill and make inaccurate claims about his weak arm or his inability to make 20+ yard passes and how THAT is handcuffing Raye's offense is off the mark IMHO.

People need to look at the bigger picture...or at least review all his games from last year and see how different he is this year so far and put two-and-two together on their own.

I agree. I don't even think Hill is the problem. When the 49ers want to pass, they can (the 4th quarter drive in the Arizona game). Also, there was a drive in the Seattle game where the 49ers were very aggressive in their playcalling and were able to move the ball by passing. I think that it really just comes down to playcalling. If the 49ers open it up, I think they can succeed. They basically have the same roster as last year so I know for a fact they can pass the ball if they want to. I like the fact that 49ers are a running team, but I want to see a little more aggressiveness. Go to Morgan and Davis early on, build up a lead and help out our defense.

I to think Vernon is in for a great year! I think his ability to come out of the backfield and catch the short and intermediate passes is going to be one of the keys to our offense as it goes forward.

We have been missing for years what I believe is the most critical position in an NFL offense and that is a productive TE. I liked what I saw in the preseason when Hill was hitting Vernon with early crisp passes of 18 and 25 yards if memory serves correctly.

I would like to see more of this in the future and think we will as the team finds its rythm. Building upon B650 post

Aloha

Bottom line...who cares as long as we are winning?

Originally posted by B650:
I agree. I don't even think Hill is the problem. When the 49ers want to pass, they can (the 4th quarter drive in the Arizona game). Also, there was a drive in the Seattle game where the 49ers were very aggressive in their playcalling and were able to move the ball by passing. I think that it really just comes down to playcalling. If the 49ers open it up, I think they can succeed. They basically have the same roster as last year so I know for a fact they can pass the ball if they want to. I like the fact that 49ers are a running team, but I want to see a little more aggressiveness. Go to Morgan and Davis early on, build up a lead and help out our defense.

I think we all do!

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Bottom line...who cares as long as we are winning?

I for one would like to understand where we are going to from where we currently are.
I am not a negative guy and although i can b***h with the best of them, can't help but like what I see --ugly wins and all. I don't think this is a replay of 2007 start with 8 losses to follow.

Aloha

Originally posted by lamontb:
I think it's both but it's more the WR's than Hill imo. I don't think the Wr's are really getting open. These wr's just aren't that great. And Bruce did drop a couple balls yesterday.

This. Hill isn't the best QB in the league, but I think our WR's have more to do with it than Hills ability to get them the ball. Bruce is on pace for an 800yrd 64 catch year, which isn't that bad considering he's 36 years old. The other guys (Morgan, Battle) just aren't as good as some people believe they are.

But in reality it's a 3 way combination of a mediocre QB, mediocre WR group, and a conservative offense that limits mistakes with short, high percentage passes. JT'Oturnovers showed us all what happens when a mediocre QB and WR's try to have an aggresive, high risk offense.

Originally posted by young9er:

Originally posted by lamontb:
I think it's both but it's more the WR's than Hill imo. I don't think the Wr's are really getting open. These wr's just aren't that great. And Bruce did drop a couple balls yesterday.

This. Hill isn't the best QB in the league, but I think our WR's have more to do with it than Hills ability to get them the ball. Bruce is on pace for an 800yrd 64 catch year, which isn't that bad considering he's 36 years old. The other guys (Morgan, Battle) just aren't as good as some people believe they are.

But in reality it's a 3 way combination of a mediocre QB, mediocre WR group, and a conservative offense that limits mistakes with short, high percentage passes. JT'Oturnovers showed us all what happens when a mediocre QB and WR's try to have an aggresive, high risk offense.

It's been reported, this Viking game is the game where Shaun Hill will indeed need to do more than hand off to Frank Gore. The Vikings gameplan is really clear and simple..... Stop Frank Gore and make Shaun Hill PROVE he can beat you.

Originally posted by whole49yards:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Bottom line...who cares as long as we are winning?

I for one would like to understand where we are going to from where we currently are.
I am not a negative guy and although i can b***h with the best of them, can't help but like what I see --ugly wins and all. I don't think this is a replay of 2007 start with 8 losses to follow.

Aloha

I don't think it is going to be the same. On a surface level observation, there is some big differences I see between that season & this one -

In 2007, there were rumors & what not that this team was not all together behind the coach. Additionally, they came out totally overconfident on what they really were, then went into the tank after getting humbled on the football field.

Today they have a team that would walk barefoot over broken glass & hot coals for the head coach. They have come out of the gate humble, and constantly reminded by the coach they are not yet good enough, and have to work much harder. It is hard to picture a scenerio where this team will go in the tank with Singletary in charge, even when they have some dissapointments during the season.

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by young9er:

Originally posted by lamontb:
I think it's both but it's more the WR's than Hill imo. I don't think the Wr's are really getting open. These wr's just aren't that great. And Bruce did drop a couple balls yesterday.

This. Hill isn't the best QB in the league, but I think our WR's have more to do with it than Hills ability to get them the ball. Bruce is on pace for an 800yrd 64 catch year, which isn't that bad considering he's 36 years old. The other guys (Morgan, Battle) just aren't as good as some people believe they are.

But in reality it's a 3 way combination of a mediocre QB, mediocre WR group, and a conservative offense that limits mistakes with short, high percentage passes. JT'Oturnovers showed us all what happens when a mediocre QB and WR's try to have an aggresive, high risk offense.

It's been reported, this Viking game is the game where Shaun Hill will indeed need to do more than hand off to Frank Gore. The Vikings gameplan is really clear and simple..... Stop Frank Gore and make Shaun Hill PROVE he can beat you.

Seattle said the exact same thing and Frank Gore rushed for over 200 yards on them. Shaun Hill is a game manager and makes passes when they count, and that's all that's been necessary up until this point.

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by young9er:

Originally posted by lamontb:
I think it's both but it's more the WR's than Hill imo. I don't think the Wr's are really getting open. These wr's just aren't that great. And Bruce did drop a couple balls yesterday.

This. Hill isn't the best QB in the league, but I think our WR's have more to do with it than Hills ability to get them the ball. Bruce is on pace for an 800yrd 64 catch year, which isn't that bad considering he's 36 years old. The other guys (Morgan, Battle) just aren't as good as some people believe they are.

But in reality it's a 3 way combination of a mediocre QB, mediocre WR group, and a conservative offense that limits mistakes with short, high percentage passes. JT'Oturnovers showed us all what happens when a mediocre QB and WR's try to have an aggresive, high risk offense.

It's been reported, this Viking game is the game where Shaun Hill will indeed need to do more than hand off to Frank Gore. The Vikings gameplan is really clear and simple..... Stop Frank Gore and make Shaun Hill PROVE he can beat you.

Seattle & Arizona had that same perspective! And let's be honest, if not for two big 4th Q drives by HILL, we probably would't be 2-0 right now. Seattle is a weak team in stopping the run and we always run great against them. They, like AZ, stacked 8-9 in the box and we still beat them with Gore which is what Singletary wanted.

I imagine the Vikings will do the same thing but b/c of the predetermined play-calling by Raye (e.g. no audibles) and Singletary's desire to "punch 'em in the mouth," I hope we can keep it close enough to give Hill another shot at winning it in the 4th Q.

I do expect Raye to open the playbook up a little more each week but I'd be SHOCKED to truly see a game plan that is designed around Hill at this point. In short, it doesn't matter what the Vikings do, only Gore, the o-line and the defense will be asked to win this one IMHO.