So... is it Hill or is it our W.R.'s?

Originally posted by AKfanster:
The issue isn't Hill or the WRs. We know what those guys are capable of doing, just look at last season's offense. If I remember right, we were right near the top of the league with passes of 20+ yards.
The issue is Raye's playcalling and Sings desire to be a running team.

20+ yards when J.T. O'Sullivan was starting. Not with Hill.

IMO,I can't really say its Hill as much as its the recvr's.There was some dropped passes by the w/r's and Hill on some occasions did'nt make the best decisions either. But thats expected.It was expected since Hill has been playing. I will say no matter he manages the games in a decent manner and Hill as is the rest of the team since he been the q/b has been winning ugly.For arguments sake the rcvr's are catching them when they count although consistency would be great.We running the ball quite a bit and our passing game is more just a run block setup.Would b great to see a 1st down opened up with a play action pass a draw or a deep out to at least 1 of our recvrs, to maybe get them in a rythem. Hill may not posses the strongest arm but by mid season if he is'nt hurt I feel the passing game will open up a little more.

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by ninerfan818:

Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
hill. He can make the short throws. Hitting a receiver in stride, 30 yards down the field is another story.

It's Hill for sure. Sure, I am also lovin that we are 2-0. I am also loving the Panthers being 0-2 and us having their first rounder next year. But all that aside a pro-bowl caliber QB would make the entire team better including the defense.

Hill does the best he can with said abilities. Hill is getting wins and completely respect him for that, but he is also holding the offense back in a strange way. Winning and holding us back, amazing...but true if it makes any sense. We'll get some wins but but this is not going to be a Dilfer team going to the supert bowl, EOS.

If we had a pro bowl caliber QB we wouldn't be hoping we would be in the playoffs with the talent we have and the defense we have it would be a given to win the west. That's all I am saying. That doesn't mean I am not appreciative of Hill.

Nicely put, props to Hill for not losing the games for us, but we do have a less than mediocre QB.

Could Alex do what Hill is doing in this offense?

We neeed to be slightly more aggresive b/c the way we're doing it won't get us into the playoffs. It may win us 8 games but we're gonna need the QB to makes plays to get into the playoffs.

I'm confident they'll open the book a bit more b/c it HAS to happen to get where we need to be.

Originally posted by Dshearn:
every one wrs/qbs/tes/rbs .....are knee deep in to a new system.


they are not in mid-season form yet....let alone have a "history" or chemisty with each other yet.

give it time....

We will get our answer this weekend in Viking land.

Hill is gonna have to open up the passing game a bit more.

Stay tuned!

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by AKfanster:
The issue isn't Hill or the WRs. We know what those guys are capable of doing, just look at last season's offense. If I remember right, we were right near the top of the league with passes of 20+ yards.
The issue is Raye's playcalling and Sings desire to be a running team.

20+ yards when J.T. O'Sullivan was starting. Not with Hill.

Hill had 27 20+ pass completions in 8 starts last year. Double that and that's 54 which would put him 3rd in the NFL behind only Drew Brees (66) & Jay Cutler (55). Even more impressive is that Hill's offense was a pared-down version compared to when J.T. O'Sullivan was our QB the first half of the year. So again, these arguments about Hill's weak arm is ignorant.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by AKfanster:
The issue isn't Hill or the WRs. We know what those guys are capable of doing, just look at last season's offense. If I remember right, we were right near the top of the league with passes of 20+ yards.
The issue is Raye's playcalling and Sings desire to be a running team.

20+ yards when J.T. O'Sullivan was starting. Not with Hill.

Hill had 27 20+ pass completions in 8 starts last year. Double that and that's 54 which would put him 3rd in the NFL behind only Drew Brees (66) & Jay Cutler (55). Even more impressive is that Hill's offense was a pared-down version compared to when J.T. O'Sullivan was our QB the first half of the year. So again, these arguments about Hill's weak arm is ignorant.

Uhmmmm..... The 9ers brass and Hill himself to an extent all clearly recognize Hill has arm limitations, so I guess you are calling them ignorant, ehhh?

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by AKfanster:
The issue isn't Hill or the WRs. We know what those guys are capable of doing, just look at last season's offense. If I remember right, we were right near the top of the league with passes of 20+ yards.
The issue is Raye's playcalling and Sings desire to be a running team.

20+ yards when J.T. O'Sullivan was starting. Not with Hill.

Hill had 27 20+ pass completions in 8 starts last year. Double that and that's 54 which would put him 3rd in the NFL behind only Drew Brees (66) & Jay Cutler (55). Even more impressive is that Hill's offense was a pared-down version compared to when J.T. O'Sullivan was our QB the first half of the year. So again, these arguments about Hill's weak arm is ignorant.

Uhmmmm..... The 9ers brass and Hill himself to an extent all clearly recognize Hill has arm limitations, so I guess you are calling them ignorant, ehhh?

Sorry, wasn't referring to you in particular as being ignorant (that was from another post topic). I've heard from Hill that he says he HEARS that people talk about his arm strength as being an issue and how it doesn't bother him. I also don't believe our brass is subscribing to the idea that he is not able to make those throws either as I do it has more to do with Singletary's goal to not risk anything and throw only high percentage passes and consequently, Raye is just the OC for that style.

You'll notice in the highlight reel in the other post, Hill never hesitated on any of those 20+ throws and threw them on a dime. This year, Hill won't even pass unless the WR appears to be wide open except on occasion. I think Raye/Singletary have preached to Hill NOT TO LOSE GAMES. He knows his roll with us. Hill, like any QB, needs to get into a rhythm. He can't be asked to hand off all game, throw under 10 yards and then suddenly hit a 50 yard bomb (though, he did do that too).

Unfortunately, after last year, it is obvious to me that he CAN make those throws and that's what we need to go far in this league with a nice balance of run and pass as dictated by the defenses and how they play us. Perhaps, as the year progresses and as Raye learns about his player capabilities, he will start to open up the offense and let Hill even audible (which would be huge)!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by AKfanster:
The issue isn't Hill or the WRs. We know what those guys are capable of doing, just look at last season's offense. If I remember right, we were right near the top of the league with passes of 20+ yards.
The issue is Raye's playcalling and Sings desire to be a running team.

20+ yards when J.T. O'Sullivan was starting. Not with Hill.

Hill had 27 20+ pass completions in 8 starts last year. Double that and that's 54 which would put him 3rd in the NFL behind only Drew Brees (66) & Jay Cutler (55). Even more impressive is that Hill's offense was a pared-down version compared to when J.T. O'Sullivan was our QB the first half of the year. So again, these arguments about Hill's weak arm is ignorant.

Umm, how many of those were 20 + yards in the air?????

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by AKfanster:
The issue isn't Hill or the WRs. We know what those guys are capable of doing, just look at last season's offense. If I remember right, we were right near the top of the league with passes of 20+ yards.
The issue is Raye's playcalling and Sings desire to be a running team.

20+ yards when J.T. O'Sullivan was starting. Not with Hill.

Hill had 27 20+ pass completions in 8 starts last year. Double that and that's 54 which would put him 3rd in the NFL behind only Drew Brees (66) & Jay Cutler (55). Even more impressive is that Hill's offense was a pared-down version compared to when J.T. O'Sullivan was our QB the first half of the year. So again, these arguments about Hill's weak arm is ignorant.

Uhmmmm..... The 9ers brass and Hill himself to an extent all clearly recognize Hill has arm limitations, so I guess you are calling them ignorant, ehhh?

Sorry, wasn't referring to you in particular as being ignorant (that was from another post topic). I've heard from Hill that he says he HEARS that people talk about his arm strength as being an issue and how it doesn't bother him. I also don't believe our brass is subscribing to the idea that he is not able to make those throws either as I do it has more to do with Singletary's goal to not risk anything and throw only high percentage passes and consequently, Raye is just the OC for that style.

You'll notice in the highlight reel in the other post, Hill never hesitated on any of those 20+ throws and threw them on a dime. This year, Hill won't even pass unless the WR appears to be wide open except on occasion. I think Raye/Singletary have preached to Hill NOT TO LOSE GAMES. He knows his roll with us. Hill, like any QB, needs to get into a rhythm. He can't be asked to hand off all game, throw under 10 yards and then suddenly hit a 50 yard bomb (though, he did do that too).

Unfortunately, after last year, it is obvious to me that he CAN make those throws and that's what we need to go far in this league with a nice balance of run and pass as dictated by the defenses and how they play us. Perhaps, as the year progresses and as Raye learns about his player capabilities, he will start to open up the offense and let Hill even audible (which would be huge)!

This weekend Vikings game will be a tell tale on Hill for sure.

I question Hill's awareness. He seems to zero in on a receiver and blanks out from all other open receivers on the playing field and sometimes tries to force it into triple coverage. Not to mention that Hill sacked himself by not even being aware that Kearney was on the ground right next to him and backing into him.

Originally posted by BigMar:
First of all... We are 2 and 0 baby!

Second of all... the Panthers are 0 and 2 baby ( we get their 1st round pick)

But what in the world is up with our barely creeping passing game?

After 2 games:

Bruce = 8 rec /13.6 avg / 50 long / 0 TD
Davis = 7 rec/ 10.3 avg/ 19 long / 0 TD
Battle = 3 rec/ 7.7 avg/ 12 long / 0 TD
Morgan = 3 rec/12.7 avg/14 long / 0 TD
Walker = 1 rec / 17.0 avg / 17 long / 0 TD
Spurlock = 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
J.Hill = 0 / 0 /0 /0

The panthers pick didn't look that great..until now. Let's hope their downward trend continues.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by AKfanster:
The issue isn't Hill or the WRs. We know what those guys are capable of doing, just look at last season's offense. If I remember right, we were right near the top of the league with passes of 20+ yards.
The issue is Raye's playcalling and Sings desire to be a running team.

20+ yards when J.T. O'Sullivan was starting. Not with Hill.

Hill had 27 20+ pass completions in 8 starts last year. Double that and that's 54 which would put him 3rd in the NFL behind only Drew Brees (66) & Jay Cutler (55). Even more impressive is that Hill's offense was a pared-down version compared to when J.T. O'Sullivan was our QB the first half of the year. So again, these arguments about Hill's weak arm is ignorant.

sure, that's great and all, he's capable of throwing 20 yards... I think I am too. But it's about the velocity and fitting the balls into tight windows, and frankly, hill's arms limits him from throwing the ball deep without a lot of WR separation.

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by AKfanster:
The issue isn't Hill or the WRs. We know what those guys are capable of doing, just look at last season's offense. If I remember right, we were right near the top of the league with passes of 20+ yards.
The issue is Raye's playcalling and Sings desire to be a running team.

20+ yards when J.T. O'Sullivan was starting. Not with Hill.

Hill had 27 20+ pass completions in 8 starts last year. Double that and that's 54 which would put him 3rd in the NFL behind only Drew Brees (66) & Jay Cutler (55). Even more impressive is that Hill's offense was a pared-down version compared to when J.T. O'Sullivan was our QB the first half of the year. So again, these arguments about Hill's weak arm is ignorant.

Umm, how many of those were 20 + yards in the air?????

So I reviewed the highlight reel against the Cards last year: (I only considered the vertical passing distance, not the extra yardage to the sideline or the yards the WR got after the catch):

25 yard TD pass along the right sideline
35 yard corner route to the left sideline
30 yard TD down the middle of the field
23 yard pass down the middle of the field
25 yard out pattern to the right sideline

So, whatever it is they are complaining about is total bogus. Many of those sideline routes passes traveled well over what I stated above, were right on a dime, were thrown with NO hesitation and put the WR in position to get out of bounds or pick up RAC.

How many of Jay Cutlers or Drew Brees were passes over 20 yards?