Arguments for Alex Smith and Shaun Hill to Start

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Winners:

Originally posted by Mospeed:

Originally posted by Winners:

Originally posted by Mospeed:
Stays home during bye to work with Crabtree, takes pay cut, works out nonstop, has the smarts to audible/manage pass blocking.

I can go on and on with this, this guy was suppose to be our future but all we did was poop on his chest with five different offensive coordinators before kicking him to the curb. If anything we should just make him our assistant offensive coordinator since he's a walking encyclopedia of what not to ****ing do.

I'm always amazed at people who tell me "he sux look at his stats" because it becomes obvious to me that they've never seen him play, in college or the pros. To develop as a quarterback in the NFL you need a little thing called a coach and when Alex Smith came into this league as a rookie he was greeted by San Francisco's Quarterback coach Jim Hostler. Yes, the same Jim Hostler who was only able to muster up 23 touchdowns as offensive coordinator in the 2007 season. This along with not having receivers to throw the ball to and not having blockers to give him time in the pocket is the reason as to why Smith has the stats that he has.

Now that we have a real #1 WR on the team we need a quarterback that will be able to develop chemistry with him for years to come and to be truthful, a 29 y/o "game manager" who throws a deep ball that come down "like a punt" is not going to develop anymore than he already has. The simple truth of the matter is that we can no longer just hope for the best anymore. We're stubborn to think that we can get to the playoffs with a game manager at the quarterback position when our defense is giving up 45 points to decent at best teams. We need a playmaker and as of right now Shaun Hill is not a playmaker. I'm not saying that we need to bench Shaun Hill for Alex or Nate, I'm just saying that we need to be searching for a future piece to this puzzle. If it's not Hill then is the piece on our bench? Or will we need to get it in a future draft?

Thoughts, flames or comments?

You know who else wanted a game manager instead of a playmaker with a huge arm? Denver. They're 5-0. We did too, and we're a Favre miracle away from being 4-1. Your Alex Smith love is seething. MAKE IT STOP.

Who's to say that Alex wouldn't make a good game manager in the first place?

Didn't you just say we didn't want a game manager? We need a playmaker? Also, past history (have you even SEEN Smith play??) shows me he's no game manager.

Was Hill a game manager last year? No. Smith can be a game manager this year because that would be his role.

I reiterate, have you even SEEN Smith play? Seriously. What's his TD to INT ratio? Hows he ever going to manage a game?

Originally posted by Winners:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Winners:

Originally posted by Mospeed:

Originally posted by Winners:

Originally posted by Mospeed:
Stays home during bye to work with Crabtree, takes pay cut, works out nonstop, has the smarts to audible/manage pass blocking.

I can go on and on with this, this guy was suppose to be our future but all we did was poop on his chest with five different offensive coordinators before kicking him to the curb. If anything we should just make him our assistant offensive coordinator since he's a walking encyclopedia of what not to ****ing do.

I'm always amazed at people who tell me "he sux look at his stats" because it becomes obvious to me that they've never seen him play, in college or the pros. To develop as a quarterback in the NFL you need a little thing called a coach and when Alex Smith came into this league as a rookie he was greeted by San Francisco's Quarterback coach Jim Hostler. Yes, the same Jim Hostler who was only able to muster up 23 touchdowns as offensive coordinator in the 2007 season. This along with not having receivers to throw the ball to and not having blockers to give him time in the pocket is the reason as to why Smith has the stats that he has.

Now that we have a real #1 WR on the team we need a quarterback that will be able to develop chemistry with him for years to come and to be truthful, a 29 y/o "game manager" who throws a deep ball that come down "like a punt" is not going to develop anymore than he already has. The simple truth of the matter is that we can no longer just hope for the best anymore. We're stubborn to think that we can get to the playoffs with a game manager at the quarterback position when our defense is giving up 45 points to decent at best teams. We need a playmaker and as of right now Shaun Hill is not a playmaker. I'm not saying that we need to bench Shaun Hill for Alex or Nate, I'm just saying that we need to be searching for a future piece to this puzzle. If it's not Hill then is the piece on our bench? Or will we need to get it in a future draft?

Thoughts, flames or comments?

You know who else wanted a game manager instead of a playmaker with a huge arm? Denver. They're 5-0. We did too, and we're a Favre miracle away from being 4-1. Your Alex Smith love is seething. MAKE IT STOP.

Who's to say that Alex wouldn't make a good game manager in the first place?

Didn't you just say we didn't want a game manager? We need a playmaker? Also, past history (have you even SEEN Smith play??) shows me he's no game manager.

Was Hill a game manager last year? No. Smith can be a game manager this year because that would be his role.

I reiterate, have you even SEEN Smith play? Seriously. What's his TD to INT ratio? Hows he ever going to manage a game?

I've been watching the 49ers longer than you have. I reiterate, the reason Hill is a game manager is because that's his job in this offense. If Smith was asked to do the same thing, he could.

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Winners:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Winners:

Originally posted by Mospeed:

Originally posted by Winners:

Originally posted by Mospeed:
Stays home during bye to work with Crabtree, takes pay cut, works out nonstop, has the smarts to audible/manage pass blocking.

I can go on and on with this, this guy was suppose to be our future but all we did was poop on his chest with five different offensive coordinators before kicking him to the curb. If anything we should just make him our assistant offensive coordinator since he's a walking encyclopedia of what not to ****ing do.

I'm always amazed at people who tell me "he sux look at his stats" because it becomes obvious to me that they've never seen him play, in college or the pros. To develop as a quarterback in the NFL you need a little thing called a coach and when Alex Smith came into this league as a rookie he was greeted by San Francisco's Quarterback coach Jim Hostler. Yes, the same Jim Hostler who was only able to muster up 23 touchdowns as offensive coordinator in the 2007 season. This along with not having receivers to throw the ball to and not having blockers to give him time in the pocket is the reason as to why Smith has the stats that he has.

Now that we have a real #1 WR on the team we need a quarterback that will be able to develop chemistry with him for years to come and to be truthful, a 29 y/o "game manager" who throws a deep ball that come down "like a punt" is not going to develop anymore than he already has. The simple truth of the matter is that we can no longer just hope for the best anymore. We're stubborn to think that we can get to the playoffs with a game manager at the quarterback position when our defense is giving up 45 points to decent at best teams. We need a playmaker and as of right now Shaun Hill is not a playmaker. I'm not saying that we need to bench Shaun Hill for Alex or Nate, I'm just saying that we need to be searching for a future piece to this puzzle. If it's not Hill then is the piece on our bench? Or will we need to get it in a future draft?

Thoughts, flames or comments?

You know who else wanted a game manager instead of a playmaker with a huge arm? Denver. They're 5-0. We did too, and we're a Favre miracle away from being 4-1. Your Alex Smith love is seething. MAKE IT STOP.

Who's to say that Alex wouldn't make a good game manager in the first place?

Didn't you just say we didn't want a game manager? We need a playmaker? Also, past history (have you even SEEN Smith play??) shows me he's no game manager.

Was Hill a game manager last year? No. Smith can be a game manager this year because that would be his role.

I reiterate, have you even SEEN Smith play? Seriously. What's his TD to INT ratio? Hows he ever going to manage a game?

I've been watching the 49ers longer than you have. I reiterate, the reason Hill is a game manager is because that's his job in this offense. If Smith was asked to do the same thing, he could.

1.)How do you know how long I've been watching the 49ers? (you don't)
2.)How is that relevant if true?
3.)What in Alex Smiths past has you convinced he could be a game manager? I cited examples of why he can't (his horrible TD to INT ratio)

Different coordinators/head coaches result in different results and take away his rookie season and his ratio isn't as messed up. Plus when has smith ever had decent receivers to throw at? Darrell Jackson and Ashley Lelie had bricks for hands.

Originally posted by Winners:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Winners:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Winners:

Originally posted by Mospeed:

Originally posted by Winners:

Originally posted by Mospeed:
Stays home during bye to work with Crabtree, takes pay cut, works out nonstop, has the smarts to audible/manage pass blocking.

I can go on and on with this, this guy was suppose to be our future but all we did was poop on his chest with five different offensive coordinators before kicking him to the curb. If anything we should just make him our assistant offensive coordinator since he's a walking encyclopedia of what not to ****ing do.

I'm always amazed at people who tell me "he sux look at his stats" because it becomes obvious to me that they've never seen him play, in college or the pros. To develop as a quarterback in the NFL you need a little thing called a coach and when Alex Smith came into this league as a rookie he was greeted by San Francisco's Quarterback coach Jim Hostler. Yes, the same Jim Hostler who was only able to muster up 23 touchdowns as offensive coordinator in the 2007 season. This along with not having receivers to throw the ball to and not having blockers to give him time in the pocket is the reason as to why Smith has the stats that he has.

Now that we have a real #1 WR on the team we need a quarterback that will be able to develop chemistry with him for years to come and to be truthful, a 29 y/o "game manager" who throws a deep ball that come down "like a punt" is not going to develop anymore than he already has. The simple truth of the matter is that we can no longer just hope for the best anymore. We're stubborn to think that we can get to the playoffs with a game manager at the quarterback position when our defense is giving up 45 points to decent at best teams. We need a playmaker and as of right now Shaun Hill is not a playmaker. I'm not saying that we need to bench Shaun Hill for Alex or Nate, I'm just saying that we need to be searching for a future piece to this puzzle. If it's not Hill then is the piece on our bench? Or will we need to get it in a future draft?

Thoughts, flames or comments?

You know who else wanted a game manager instead of a playmaker with a huge arm? Denver. They're 5-0. We did too, and we're a Favre miracle away from being 4-1. Your Alex Smith love is seething. MAKE IT STOP.

Who's to say that Alex wouldn't make a good game manager in the first place?

Didn't you just say we didn't want a game manager? We need a playmaker? Also, past history (have you even SEEN Smith play??) shows me he's no game manager.

Was Hill a game manager last year? No. Smith can be a game manager this year because that would be his role.

I reiterate, have you even SEEN Smith play? Seriously. What's his TD to INT ratio? Hows he ever going to manage a game?

I've been watching the 49ers longer than you have. I reiterate, the reason Hill is a game manager is because that's his job in this offense. If Smith was asked to do the same thing, he could.

1.)How do you know how long I've been watching the 49ers? (you don't)
2.)How is that relevant if true?
3.)What in Alex Smiths past has you convinced he could be a game manager? I cited examples of why he can't (his horrible TD to INT ratio)

1)You're asking me if I've seen Smith play. I've seen every single game of his. I've seen Rattay start. I've seen Grbac start. I've seen Montana start. I've seen it all.
2)See above.
3)It's not that he's shown that he could, it's just that the last time he started in the NFL, he was 22 or 23 years old. It's hard to be a game manager at that age. He's 25 now. You're right. He hasn't proven that he's a game manager, but that's not his style. He has a good arm. All I'm saying is that in this offense, I think he could become one. He's older now and he has talent around him so he doesn't have to do it all by himself.

Smith shouldn't start yet. The problems of the offense aren't all Shaun Hill's fault. The OL has been playing horribly, for example. But if this continues, we have no choice but to at least put someone in there that is mobile and has an arm to help combat the fact that our OL is so pathetic. You can't have perfect pass protection every single time. With Shaun Hill, if he doesn't have time, he's one of the worst QBs in the league, so he's very much like Rex Grossman. You have to be able to stand there in the pocket when it collapses and fire a strong pass. I haven't seen Hill do it. Teams haven't seen Hill do it, and that's why they continue to blitz and make his life miserable. It's partly his fault. So it would make sense (if this keeps up) to put someone in there that has more talent.

Originally posted by B650:

1)You're asking me if I've seen Smith play. I've seen every single game of his. I've seen Rattay start. I've seen Grbac start. I've seen Montana start. I've seen it all.
2)See above.
3)It's not that he's shown that he could, it's just that the last time he started in the NFL, he was 22 or 23 years old. It's hard to be a game manager at that age. He's 25 now. You're right. He hasn't proven that he's a game manager, but that's not his style. He has a good arm. All I'm saying is that in this offense, I think he could become one. He's older now and he has talent around him so he doesn't have to do it all by himself.

Smith shouldn't start yet. The problems of the offense aren't all Shaun Hill's fault. The OL has been playing horribly, for example. But if this continues, we have no choice but to at least put someone in there that is mobile and has an arm to help combat the fact that our OL is so pathetic. You can't have perfect pass protection every single time. With Shaun Hill, if he doesn't have time, he's one of the worst QBs in the league, so he's very much like Rex Grossman. You have to be able to stand there in the pocket when it collapses and fire a strong pass. I haven't seen Hill do it. Teams haven't seen Hill do it, and that's why they continue to blitz and make his life miserable. It's partly his fault. So it would make sense (if this keeps up) to put someone in there that has more talent.

Very well said.

Anyway, game managers belong on teams with great offensive and defensive lines. When you can't pressure the QB and can't protect the QB, you need someone with superior talent at that position.

Originally posted by B650:
Anyway, game managers belong on teams with great offensive and defensive lines. When you can't pressure the QB and can't protect the QB, you need someone with superior talent at that position.

I agree with you completely.

However, Alex Smith does not have superior talent.

And therefore, Shaun Hill should start.

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by B650:
Anyway, game managers belong on teams with great offensive and defensive lines. When you can't pressure the QB and can't protect the QB, you need someone with superior talent at that position.

I agree with you completely.

However, Alex Smith does not have superior talent.

And therefore, Shaun Hill should start.

But he's a step closer to that. I mean, if we had playmakers all over the place and all Shaun had to do was throw a duck to them, we'd be fine. But we don't. Morgan doesn't seem to be getting open as much as I thought he would, and we have a bunch of WRs who are basically the same. Bruce forgot how to catch. Davis can't run the right route. Crabtree missed training camp. We need someone who has a cannon and can rifle in passes when the WRs are barely open. But like I said, it isn't Hill's fault completely, so I think he should be able to start for at least the next couple of weeks. If he keeps playing like he's been playing, don't you agree that we need a change, at least to try to provide some sort of spark?

[ Edited by B650 on Oct 14, 2009 at 01:04:58 ]

oh cool this thread that died 4 months ago is back

PUT IN #11

Originally posted by RonMexico:
oh cool this thread that died 4 months ago is back

Well a mod locked my other thread and told me to post in one of the other Alex Smith threads, this was the first thread relevant of my topic that wasn't locked so I posted in it before realizing it was from June. Oh well, whatever works.

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by B650:
Anyway, game managers belong on teams with great offensive and defensive lines. When you can't pressure the QB and can't protect the QB, you need someone with superior talent at that position.

I agree with you completely.

However, Alex Smith does not have superior talent.

And therefore, Shaun Hill should start.

But he's a step closer to that. I mean, if we had playmakers all over the place and all Shaun had to do was throw a duck to them, we'd be fine. But we don't. Morgan doesn't seem to be getting open as much as I thought he would, and we have a bunch of WRs who are basically the same. Bruce forgot how to catch. Davis can't run the right route. Crabtree missed training camp. We need someone who has a cannon and can rifle in passes when the WRs are barely open. But like I said, it isn't Hill's fault completely, so I think he should be able to start for at least the next couple of weeks. If he keeps playing like he's been playing, don't you agree that we need a change, at least to try to provide some sort of spark?

one of the main complaints about Alex is his touch and accuracy.....and if you're happy we have a #1 WR in Crabtree....well, there is a higher chance of him getting hurt with Alex back there......

even during the preseason game he threw a pass over the middle, high and away and almost got someone killed...who was that Morgan, Davis, Bruce...?

Trust me I would LOVE if Alex was to turn into like Matt Ryan....but for every Matt Ryan there is a David Carr, Joay Harrington, etc.....and so far Alex seems to fall in that area....where as Nate Davis, although against 2nd/3rd stringers......he still showed touch and accuracy on his passes.....

so for now, with this Oline, we need Shaun back there...if we still want to make the playoffs.

[ Edited by Afrikan on Oct 14, 2009 at 01:34:13 ]

We're 3-2 with Shaun Hill. (shouldve been 4-1 (minnesota game))

Until Hill starts doing HORRIBLE and we possibly continue at 3-9 or something, Hill is our guy.

Alex Smith sucks. Period.

[ Edited by bigmike55 on Oct 14, 2009 at 01:39:01 ]

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by B650:
Anyway, game managers belong on teams with great offensive and defensive lines. When you can't pressure the QB and can't protect the QB, you need someone with superior talent at that position.

I agree with you completely.

However, Alex Smith does not have superior talent.

And therefore, Shaun Hill should start.

But he's a step closer to that. I mean, if we had playmakers all over the place and all Shaun had to do was throw a duck to them, we'd be fine. But we don't. Morgan doesn't seem to be getting open as much as I thought he would, and we have a bunch of WRs who are basically the same. Bruce forgot how to catch. Davis can't run the right route. Crabtree missed training camp. We need someone who has a cannon and can rifle in passes when the WRs are barely open. But like I said, it isn't Hill's fault completely, so I think he should be able to start for at least the next couple of weeks. If he keeps playing like he's been playing, don't you agree that we need a change, at least to try to provide some sort of spark?

one of the main complaints about Alex is his touch and accuracy.....and if you're happy we have a #1 WR in Crabtree....well, there is a higher chance of him getting hurt with Alex back there......

even during the preseason game he threw a pass over the middle, high and away and almost got someone killed...who was that Morgan, Davis, Bruce...?

Trust me I would LOVE if Alex was to turn into like Matt Ryan....but for every Matt Ryan there is a David Carr, Joay Harrington, etc.....and so far Alex seems to fall in that area....where as Nate Davis, although against 2nd/3rd stringers......he still showed touch and accuracy on his passes.....

so for now, with this Oline, we need Shaun back there...if we still want to make the playoffs.

I'd prefer Nate Davis actually, but I know that isn't very likely this year.