Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Kyle will most likely agree with this too.

And no deep shots? No big air yards?

We tried to tell 'em (85%). Kyle even brought up the speedster in Travis Benjamin who played a lot but like Eric Davis said, the mass majority of deeper routes are just "ghost routes" designed to pull defenders for underneath routes.

They didn't even get a chance to run PA from under center because of all the flags...the whole game plan wasn't even there lol tossing on the 85% rule is silly under those circumstances and you know it.

Oh and no big air yards? Lance IAY is 9.9 and 2nd highest in the league. Jimmy's is 6.7 3rd worst in the league

Wut? Being in 1st and 2nd in long gives you MORE of a license for your silly air yards on all 15 of his completions. Let's see the spray charts. LOL.

Lance was 2 for 4 on 20+. Jimmy is 2 for 6 on the season.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by wolfpack2192:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Lance proved today why he should sit for the next 2 years

The OL didn't help him today - he was constantly having to tuck the ball and run.

Same Oline Jimmy had but he still did better with that then Trey

Jimmy would have been sacked 10 times if he had played today.

I disagree. I believe Jimmy would have been sacked today yes, however he would have also hit the check down most the time also resulting in positive yards.

As I stated before, I was exaggerating on the 10 sacks. Still, Jimmy would have gone down a couple of times, even with that quick release.

That's right. jimmy slides forward in the pocket which is what the oline is used to. He would have been sacked one more time but also completed 3-4 more.

Any opinion on the batted balls?

Two reasons:

1. He takes a long windup which allows the DL time to get up in the air to block the ball. That is a mechanical flaw that needs to be corrected.

2. He was hesitant to make the throw. That gave the DL time to push forward and be in a better position to block. That is a rookie mistake that should be eliminated with more experience.

In short, he played like an inexperienced rookie, which is what he is.

All true but you left out the fact that McGlinchey was getting torched all day. The line was getting pushed back which put the pass rushers closer.

The line did get pushed back, however, part of that was the Lance was holding the ball longer allowing the DL time to get the push. Also, at times, it looked worse than it was because Lance bailed out early. All rookie play that will need to be corrected.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Now that it's a qb you fully support you're seeing the things I've been pointing out all year.

Lack of OL pass pro, lack of WR separation, lack of run game.

I've been saying, Jimmy has actually been masking some of these issues with quick processing and quick release - got laughed at. Was told Trey would open up more of the offense.

Here's my issues with the, "start Trey now" idea.
1. You don't give up on a season after 5 games. We don't know what's going to happen the rest of the year. We saw AZ's TE tear an ACL yesterday, you never know what can happen.

2. It's 5 games. We've had 2 games where the D looked great, 2 games they looked great for stretches and 1 game they looked bad.

3. Even if Trey develops, we still have other issues. It's not like he was our biggest problem yesterday and playing behind this shaky OL isn't helping his development much as a pocket passer.

I'm just done with Jimmy and have been for a while...regardless of everything else he was never gonna be this pro-bowl caliber QB and got paid like he was. Toss in injuries and here we are. They could put about 15 other QBs in his position and got the same results.

I'm not about to compare a 8 yr vet to a 21 yr old who hasn't gotten a real start since 2019. SF made their choice when they moved up for Lance, at that point it should have been about developing him, not trying to run it back with a bunch of brittle resigning's and QB. We're seeing the results of that now

I don't think this is a SB contending team, didn't before the season started. You think Jimmy is good enough to beat all these top tier teams and I do not.

So like you said even if Trey develops, we have a shaky OL, well okay that doesn't make this team a SB caliber team regardless of who's the QB. You said Jimmy masks all this, yet say the WRs aren't getting open quickly...so his skill set doesn't really mask anything if no one is getting open. Lance isn't gonna have perfection at any point to develop...there will always be holes and good QB play will mask it. Kid needs to play and no amount of sitting on the bench will replace what he got yesterday.

This team needs to have one QB and get reps with him, Jimmy and Lance play vastly different and that f**ks everything up. Some of those holding calls were because they're not use to a scrambling QB. That's something that needs to be developed upon as well.

They have two weeks to get one guy and this team on the same page, I'll take the one with a vastly higher upside, who's actually part of the future, and isn't injured. I'm guessing suborn Kyle will go with banged up Jimmy and I'm sure it will be no different then what we've seen

I just don't get how you think playing Trey behind a shaky OL is actually good for his development. I also don't get why you're so willing to throw away a season after 5 games. How depressing....great, well, let's ruminate iver potential for another 11 months because we've being doing that for the past 19 months and it's been so awesome.

Sit back, root for your team, whoever is starting and hope for the best. I thought that's what fans did 🥴

If I was die hard Jimmy because of Jimmy, wouldn't you expect me to come flying in after Trey's pick, "SeE, tReY sUCkz"? I didn't and aren't going to because when he's in, im rooting for the kid, big time. I don't like seeing any of our qb's throw picks but I understand it happens. I wanted the team to pull out the win, was frustrated by how it seemed so close, yet so far. I am irritated by the injuries but you know what I'm gonna believe we have a shot until we don't.

I think a lot of us don't see going to Trey as throwing the season away.

Then I guess I'm confused on what people are seeing that says we're making a playoff run with him under center.

That's not hating the pick, I think we can all see the kid has a long ways to go in a number of areas.

I think the issue is that we don't see Jimmy being the difference in this team making the playoffs or not at this point.

Originally posted by elguapo:
True but Kap had a season and a half to learn and practice, Lance had basically nothing.

I concur. I've never seen more 1st or 2nd and 20 situations in my life and the fact that he did pretty well despite all of that is very impressive

If you listen closely, you can still hear that reffing crew out there, calling another holding penalty on the 49ers.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I just don't get how you think playing Trey behind a shaky OL is actually good for his development. I also don't get why you're so willing to throw away a season after 5 games. How depressing....great, well, let's ruminate iver potential for another 11 months because we've being doing that for the past 19 months and it's been so awesome.

Sit back, root for your team, whoever is starting and hope for the best. I thought that's what fans did 🥴

If I was die hard Jimmy because of Jimmy, wouldn't you expect me to come flying in after Trey's pick, "SeE, tReY sUCkz"? I didn't and aren't going to because when he's in, im rooting for the kid, big time. I don't like seeing any of our qb's throw picks but I understand it happens. I wanted the team to pull out the win, was frustrated by how it seemed so close, yet so far. I am irritated by the injuries but you know what I'm gonna believe we have a shot until we don't.

Playing football is good for his development. Watson had a trash OL, Allen had a trash OL, Herbert had one of the worst OLs in football.

Why is playing Lance "throwing away" the season? I simply don't believe Jimmy makes this team that much better. You overvalue him, that's your problem (not trying to be snarky either)

The 49ers offense took the ball into Arizona's territory on 8/9 of their drives today

They've taken the ball into their opponents territory on 10/15 drives that Trey Lance has been under center this season

The offense has clearly moved the ball better with #5 at QB

— Jordan Elliott (@splash_cousin) October 11, 2021

I've always said I will root for this team no matter who's the QB...literally said it about 100xs. I have no idea why you would say what you did in that second paragraph?

I'm just more realistic, I never thought this was a SB contending team. I was fine with developing and being that much better in 2022 with a healthy cap to spend. I want to win of course, but I'm not gonna get angry and call for everyone to be fired every weekend (not saying you are) IMO it's all a process and a BIG part of the process is now trying to get our high end QB ready to play. That's not gonna get figured out by sitting on the bench or in a week...that's gonna take time, some people understand that.

Dude, quit posting that tweet, we've seen it, good lord.

Where was that logic and grace vs SEA?

It's throwing the season away because there's a ridiculously small chance we make a playoff run with Lance at this stage.

You say I over value Jimmy

You obviously root for Jimmy to fail so you can be right. Every negative play, Jimmy this, Jimmy that a qb who can do this is gonna make that less of an issue

Amazing how suddenly you're on board with receivers not getting separation and Aiyuk under-performing. Where was that weeks 1-4?

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by Fanaticofnfl:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by Fanaticofnfl:
Went back a few hours and read the comments in this thread from when right after the game ended.

I've never seen such a polarized reaction before. Did they broadcast two different games?

Who knows bro. First start imo he was ok, but obviously looked like a rookie starting his first game.

He is just not ready.

Excluding preseason:

1) Kap had only played in half a regular season game against the Rams when Alex Smith was taken out plus some wildcat packages before that.

2) Jimmy had played in 2 regular season games when Brady was banned.

In the meantime, Trey Lance has been in and out of games, other than that today was his first official start. You tell me, was he better than what Kap and Jimmy showed when they started for the 9ers?

Kap didn't start for a year and half after he was drafted. Jimmy didn't start for the Patriots until 2.5 years after he was drafted. Trey wasn't even drafted six months ago.

These are dumb comparisons. Better comparisons would be all the rookie QB's in this draft class. And even then it's probably not a fair comparison. Everyone knew Mac Jones, who started the full 13 games for a championship Bama team last year, would look more pro-ready than Trey, who started one game last year, coming out the gate.

Look at Fields' first start a couple weeks ago against Cleveland. Trey's first start today was vastly better.

Absolutely!! You are 100% correct which is why Trey Lance is nowhere near ready. Lance needs to sit behind Jimmy just like Jimmy sat behind Brady or when Kap sat behind Alex. You kind of answered yourself really. LOL.

But Jimmy is average....and average sucks...and average will not win us a SB this year...and he won't be on the roster next year.

Trey may not be ready in terms of taking us to a SB but neither is Jimmy who makes wtf picks damn near every game. And Trey provides similar output to Jimmy and needs the reps. Jimmy will not be on this team next year while Lance will be starting for us. Rather have Lance starting 2022 with 13 games of experience under his belt than 1.5.

I believe we would be a more dangerous wildcard team with Trey and 13 games of experience than Jimmy, IF he is able to win enough games to get the last WC spot. That remains to be seen, but I'm willing to go on that journey with him and see if he can. Our schedule gets much easier.

Plus I'd rather watch Trey play all day every day over Jimmy in terms of entertainment value. Dude is fun to watch and is just a pup.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Kyle will most likely agree with this too.

And no deep shots? No big air yards?

We tried to tell 'em (85%). Kyle even brought up the speedster in Travis Benjamin who played a lot but like Eric Davis said, the mass majority of deeper routes are just "ghost routes" designed to pull defenders for underneath routes.

They didn't even get a chance to run PA from under center because of all the flags...the whole game plan wasn't even there lol tossing on the 85% rule is silly under those circumstances and you know it.

Oh and no big air yards? Lance IAY is 9.9 and 2nd highest in the league. Jimmy's is 6.7 3rd worst in the league

Wut? Being in 1st and 2nd in long gives you MORE of a license for your silly air yards on all 15 of his completions. Let's see the spray charts. LOL.

Lance was 2 for 4 on 20+. Jimmy is 2 for 6 on the season.

More proof on how silly air yards are. He had 15 completions. That's it. Running QB's always throw deep after scrambles and 1 or 2 deeper passes skews reality (i.e. an on-average stat). That's why their TTT is always much higher too. Same concept.

And most of ya'll should be focusing on the 85%. That's Kyle's bread and butter zone.

Originally posted by dj43:
If the goal is to develop Lance, yesterday was a wasted day. You are correct. Shanahan's offense went out the window. What we saw yesterday is not sustainable nor did it help Lance learn how to play. Instead of just run, run, run, there should have been more of the regular NFL offense. Give the kid some real meat to chew on. That failure is on Shanahan.

It's only wasted if he can't take anything away from the game to learn from and I feel there were definitely things to take from the game. The hope is that the more a rookie plays, the slower the game gets. Besides the INT that was a result of inaccuracy, not a bad read, he took care of the ball and did not have any near INT throws from what I remember. There were plays where he had time and didn't pull the trigger downfield, and I'd like see why he didn't. Give him a chance to learn from the mistakes before we claim that it was a wasted effort.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I just don't get how you think playing Trey behind a shaky OL is actually good for his development. I also don't get why you're so willing to throw away a season after 5 games. How depressing....great, well, let's ruminate iver potential for another 11 months because we've being doing that for the past 19 months and it's been so awesome.

Sit back, root for your team, whoever is starting and hope for the best. I thought that's what fans did 🥴

If I was die hard Jimmy because of Jimmy, wouldn't you expect me to come flying in after Trey's pick, "SeE, tReY sUCkz"? I didn't and aren't going to because when he's in, im rooting for the kid, big time. I don't like seeing any of our qb's throw picks but I understand it happens. I wanted the team to pull out the win, was frustrated by how it seemed so close, yet so far. I am irritated by the injuries but you know what I'm gonna believe we have a shot until we don't.

Playing football is good for his development. Watson had a trash OL, Allen had a trash OL, Herbert had one of the worst OLs in football.

Why is playing Lance "throwing away" the season? I simply don't believe Jimmy makes this team that much better. You overvalue him, that's your problem (not trying to be snarky either)

The 49ers offense took the ball into Arizona's territory on 8/9 of their drives today

They've taken the ball into their opponents territory on 10/15 drives that Trey Lance has been under center this season

The offense has clearly moved the ball better with #5 at QB

— Jordan Elliott (@splash_cousin) October 11, 2021

I've always said I will root for this team no matter who's the QB...literally said it about 100xs. I have no idea why you would say what you did in that second paragraph?

I'm just more realistic, I never thought this was a SB contending team. I was fine with developing and being that much better in 2022 with a healthy cap to spend. I want to win of course, but I'm not gonna get angry and call for everyone to be fired every weekend (not saying you are) IMO it's all a process and a BIG part of the process is now trying to get our high end QB ready to play. That's not gonna get figured out by sitting on the bench or in a week...that's gonna take time, some people understand that.

Dude, quit posting that tweet, we've seen it, good lord.

Where was that logic and grace vs SEA?

It's throwing the season away because there's a ridiculously small chance we make a playoff run with Lance at this stage.

You say I over value Jimmy

You obviously root for Jimmy to fail so you can be right. Every negative play, Jimmy this, Jimmy that a qb who can do this is gonna make that less of an issue

Amazing how suddenly you're on board with receivers not getting separation and Aiyuk under-performing. Where was that weeks 1-4?

Don't forget poor pass protection, penalties, no running game, key injuries, etc.

Not the same energy.

The only difference is QB style right now.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by dj43:
If the goal is to develop Lance, yesterday was a wasted day. You are correct. Shanahan's offense went out the window. What we saw yesterday is not sustainable nor did it help Lance learn how to play. Instead of just run, run, run, there should have been more of the regular NFL offense. Give the kid some real meat to chew on. That failure is on Shanahan.

It's only wasted if he can't take anything away from the game to learn from and I feel there were definitely things to take from the game. The hope is that the more a rookie plays, the slower the game gets. Besides the INT that was a result of inaccuracy, not a bad read, he took care of the ball and did not have any near INT throws from what I remember. There were plays where he had time and didn't pull the trigger downfield, and I'd like see why he didn't. Give him a chance to learn from the mistakes before we claim that it was a wasted effort.

If this is the kind of offense it's going to be going forward, I agree. If not, then there isn't but a handful of plays to learn from given the volume of QB runs and only 15 completions and 6.6 average (Garoppolo territory). But to your larger point, there is always something to learn from.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I think Trey looks like Trey. Personally, I don't care for the comparisons. He's not Josh Allen so saying what worked for John's Allen will for Trey isn't fair. He's not Kaepernick so what didn't work for Kaepernick won't necessarily not work for Lance. He's not Mahomes, he's not Russ. He Trey.

I want to see Trey run the offense, help the run game and be able to make off-schedule when schedule isn't there.

That's a mountain of work for this kid but he seems to have the right disposition and deserves the benefit of the doubt for at least 3 years, IMO. People will differ on the length, but I'm expecting him to be a long-term project to reach fruition.

People saying Kyle needs to adapt, he's not about to can an offense he's ran for the past 7 years mid-season.

Kyle said the playbook won't change with Lance in there. Then WTF was up with all these Shot-gun/Pistol formations, QB draws, abandoning the run (when it was working), no screens, no play action from under center, it was just straight up college ball it seemed. That was nothing like the first four weeks. I think Kyle needs to going back and sticking with what works, with what got his team to the Super Bowl, heavy run with play-action and maybe he could sprinkle in a few Trey Lance runs here and there.

It was 50/50. There were a number of passing plays that were staple plays, just run off a pistol zone-read instead of under center run. I think he's trying to limit the amount for times he's asking him to turn his back in the defense. Probably something he's seen in practice is showing him he's not ready for this at the NFL level in heavy doses.

The designed qb runs is trying to manufacture more offense that the defense won't be as ready for, is what I'm guessing and trying to not put too much on Trey's shoulders.

It should be pretty clear right now Kyle is trying to not overwhelm the rookie. While we can scream development, Kyle is trying to win games. We're 8 points away from being tied for the division lead.

Thanks man, you bring up good points, especially the part of not turning his back on the defense. I didn't realize it but I think that's a huge factor too it seems for rookies and their sense of pressure.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by dj43:
If the goal is to develop Lance, yesterday was a wasted day. You are correct. Shanahan's offense went out the window. What we saw yesterday is not sustainable nor did it help Lance learn how to play. Instead of just run, run, run, there should have been more of the regular NFL offense. Give the kid some real meat to chew on. That failure is on Shanahan.

It's only wasted if he can't take anything away from the game to learn from and I feel there were definitely things to take from the game. The hope is that the more a rookie plays, the slower the game gets. Besides the INT that was a result of inaccuracy, not a bad read, he took care of the ball and did not have any near INT throws from what I remember. There were plays where he had time and didn't pull the trigger downfield, and I'd like see why he didn't. Give him a chance to learn from the mistakes before we claim that it was a wasted effort.

If this is the kind of offense it's going to be going forward, I agree. If not, then there isn't but a handful of plays to learn from given the volume of QB runs and only 15 completions. But to your larger point, there is always something to learn from.

Very hard to judge what the offense is going to look like considering he only had a week to prepare. I'd wager if he starts after the bye week, it'll look much more like the normal Kyle offense.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by dj43:
If the goal is to develop Lance, yesterday was a wasted day. You are correct. Shanahan's offense went out the window. What we saw yesterday is not sustainable nor did it help Lance learn how to play. Instead of just run, run, run, there should have been more of the regular NFL offense. Give the kid some real meat to chew on. That failure is on Shanahan.

It's only wasted if he can't take anything away from the game to learn from and I feel there were definitely things to take from the game. The hope is that the more a rookie plays, the slower the game gets. Besides the INT that was a result of inaccuracy, not a bad read, he took care of the ball and did not have any near INT throws from what I remember. There were plays where he had time and didn't pull the trigger downfield, and I'd like see why he didn't. Give him a chance to learn from the mistakes before we claim that it was a wasted effort.

If this is the kind of offense it's going to be going forward, I agree. If not, then there isn't but a handful of plays to learn from given the volume of QB runs and only 15 completions. But to your larger point, there is always something to learn from.

Very hard to judge what the offense is going to look like considering he only had a week to prepare. I'd wager if he starts after the bye week, it'll look much more like the normal Kyle offense.

Hopefully. I'd be stoked by that EVEN if it ends up being a poor outing.

My bigger concern is that, is this how KYLE views Trey? As a pure running QB even when he came from a pro-style offense?

Like how Garoppolo came from a system that had more receiving options but pigeon holed him into his own philosophical PA/OZ staple.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I wanted the team to pull out the win, was frustrated by how it seemed so close, yet so far. I am irritated by the injuries but you know what I'm gonna believe we have a shot until we don't.

Before the season started, if someone had told you we would have the same record as Kansas City after 5 games, we would both be ecstatic. As of now, I don't think either team is giving up.

Success in the playoffs depends largely on a team being relatively free of injuries and peaking as the playoffs begin. I could easily see a 10/11 win NFC West team rolling into the playoffs and doing well. No reason to give up now.

Trey's PFF grade was higher than 3 of Jimmy's 4 starts this season.