Jimmy Graham Thread

Originally posted by WINiner:
Getting old isn't he? Im not really a fan. Dude is good but his personality sucks.

Can't block...I think that's an issue with a KS TE.

Originally posted by sacniner:

My bad, I wasn't familiar with that guy and didn't know who he was. So he is a unproven college kid and you are making up a hypothetical of him being a "legit receiving threat and redzone weapon but isnt solely a finesse player." In actuality, we have no clue who he'll be in the NFL. Also, where are you getting 8-10 million a year? I highly doubt Graham will get that. Perception of him has changed since leaving NO, I think it'll be a relatively bare market for him.

Goedert at this point is already far more developed and willing as a blocker. I'd take a shot on his upside as a receiver over a one dimensional player who will cost far more money, no matter how much you claim he is in line for, he will still get paid far more without being a good fit offensively.

I don't see how he would be a bad fit here in the passing game. Kyle is a gifted play caller and can set up talented guys to succeed.

Because he can't block worth a damn. He gives you jack squat in the run game. Defenses flat out ignore him as a blocker.


Kyle has often spoken of the need for the TE to excel at both blocking and receiving, to force the defense to prepare for a run or a pass. Think Delanie Walker. That is an ultimate Shanahan TE.



It'd be one thing if Graham was already here and Kyle had to make do with him. I'm sure he'd find creative uses for him. I am sure he would have found ways to utilize Kaepernick if he positively had to.



But it is another matter entirely for him to push to sign an aging TE who is about as physically menacing as a CareBear.



Don't think you're going to be able to speak this one into existence Lavar.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Goedert at this point is already far more developed and willing as a blocker. I'd take a shot on his upside as a receiver over a one dimensional player who will cost far more money, no matter how much you claim he is in line for, he will still get paid far more without being a good fit offensively.

Because he can't block worth a damn. He gives you jack squat in the run game. Defenses flat out ignore him as a blocker.

Kyle has often spoken of the need for the TE to excel at both blocking and receiving, to force the defense to prepare for a run or a pass. Think Delanie Walker. That is an ultimate Shanahan TE.

It'd be one thing if Graham was already here and Kyle had to make do with him. I'm sure he'd find creative uses for him. I am sure he would have found ways to utilize Kaepernick if he positively had to.

But it is another matter entirely for him to push to sign an aging TE who is about as physically menacing as a CareBear.

Don't think you're going to be able to speak this one into existence Lavar.

Bruh, that college kid has NEVER blocked in the NFL. Chilo Rachal and Kwame Harris were willing, and good blockers in college.

I know the narrative, and mostly factual, perception of Graham is that he is a joke of a blocker. He also said in the past he is a WR, not a TE. Don't blame him as he was tryna get paid. But, the story out of Seattle is that he is much improved in the blocking game. As he is older, maybe he is a more willing blocker. His blocking metrics have improved this year (career best).

My doot, Delanie is one of the best TEs in the NFL. He would be a great fit anywhere. Not being a meanie, but no crap he would be a good fit lol.

I don't do hyperbole as well as you. But Graham is more than CareBear in the passing game.

Lastly, don't list kap and Graham in the same sentence please

I'm not going lose sleep if we don't' go after a cheap deal w/ him, but it would be intriguing.

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Late 1st rounder vs $8 to $10 million a year. Unlikely. Just don't see the interest from ShanaLynch in an aging TE that has shown zero desire in doing anything but running routes throughout his career. He was an awkward fit for Seattle. Would be even a worse fit here.

My bad, I wasn't familiar with that guy and didn't know who he was. So he is a unproven college kid and you are making up a hypothetical of him being a "legit receiving threat and redzone weapon but isnt solely a finesse player." In actuality, we have no clue who he'll be in the NFL. Also, where are you getting 8-10 million a year? I highly doubt Graham will get that. Perception of him has changed since leaving NO, I think it'll be a relatively bare market for him.

Don't see how he would be a bad fit here in the passing game. Kyle is a gifted play caller and can set up talented guys to succeed.

People just make s**t up to fit their pre-formed narratives, bro. Facts are he is an elite red zone receiving option but lacking in other areas. Would imagine a top-notch play caller would have no issue finding ways to get him the ball, limitations and all. But people who have already made up their mind just come at you with a lazy "b...bu...but the money!" argument -- when they don't know s**t about what will actually happen. None of us do.

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Goedert at this point is already far more developed and willing as a blocker. I'd take a shot on his upside as a receiver over a one dimensional player who will cost far more money, no matter how much you claim he is in line for, he will still get paid far more without being a good fit offensively.

Because he can't block worth a damn. He gives you jack squat in the run game. Defenses flat out ignore him as a blocker.

Kyle has often spoken of the need for the TE to excel at both blocking and receiving, to force the defense to prepare for a run or a pass. Think Delanie Walker. That is an ultimate Shanahan TE.

It'd be one thing if Graham was already here and Kyle had to make do with him. I'm sure he'd find creative uses for him. I am sure he would have found ways to utilize Kaepernick if he positively had to.

But it is another matter entirely for him to push to sign an aging TE who is about as physically menacing as a CareBear.

Don't think you're going to be able to speak this one into existence Lavar.

Bruh, that college kid has NEVER blocked in the NFL. Chilo Rachal and Kwame Harris were willing, and good blockers in college.

I know the narrative, and mostly factual, perception of Graham is that he is a joke of a blocker. He also said in the past he is a WR, not a TE. Don't blame him as he was tryna get paid. But, the story out of Seattle is that he is much improved in the blocking game. As he is older, maybe he is a more willing blocker. His blocking metrics have improved this year (career best).

My doot, Delanie is one of the best TEs in the NFL. He would be a great fit anywhere. Not being a meanie, but no crap he would be a good fit lol.

I don't do hyperbole as well as you. But Graham is more than CareBear in the passing game.

Lastly, don't list kap and Graham in the same sentence please

I'm not going lose sleep if we don't' go after a cheap deal w/ him, but it would be intriguing.

I'm with you, but you're wasting your time.

Originally posted by okdkid:

People just make s**t up to fit their pre-formed narratives, bro. Facts are he is an elite red zone receiving option but lacking in other areas. Would imagine a top-notch play caller would have no issue finding ways to get him the ball, limitations and all. But people who have already made up their mind just come at you with a lazy "b...bu...but the money!" argument -- when they don't know s**t about what will actually happen. None of us do.

Great points, sir.

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by okdkid:
People just make s**t up to fit their pre-formed narratives, bro. Facts are he is an elite red zone receiving option but lacking in other areas. Would imagine a top-notch play caller would have no issue finding ways to get him the ball, limitations and all. But people who have already made up their mind just come at you with a lazy "b...bu...but the money!" argument -- when they don't know s**t about what will actually happen. None of us do.

Great points, sir.

Graham is "older" but is still young enough to get a fair 1-year "prove it" deal to show he still has the chops to be a great receiving option. He could hit the market again in 2019 at 32 and expect a lucrative 3-4 year deal should he prove himself. In that hypothetical -- I would imagine he would love to sign with an elite play caller who can make him money in 2019.

If we are looking for a RZ option at TE, I'd much rather Cameron Brate from Tampa Bay. He's a much better blocker than Graham and is a damn good RZ option on a team where you'd think Mike Evans would be the go to guy, but it's Brate who usually is the one who gets his number called in the RZ.

After taking OJ Howard in the first round this year, I doubt they bring Brate back as a RFA.

At only 26yo he'd be a damn fine signing for this organization going forward. Hell, I'd even trade a 5th or 6th for him if the bucs don't simply let him walk.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by sacniner:
A Graham type TE opens the playbook up. Defenses have to account for him as a primary target, particularly in the red zone. He can block a girl scout. At this point, your boy Goedert may cost more.

Late 1st rounder vs $8 to $10 million a year. Unlikely. Just don't see the interest from ShanaLynch in an aging TE that has shown zero desire in doing anything but running routes throughout his career. He was an awkward fit for Seattle. Would be even a worse fit here.

I don't understand why Seattle made that deal.

Graham was awesome in the passing game in New Orleans. Seattle was struggling with their passing game but that was more because their OL was crummy and gave Willow little time to scan the field and select a target. So-o-o-o, Seattle trades their best pass protector for a TE that will not be getting many targets because the QB doesn't have time to wait for the TE to settle into the open spot in the zone or deep middle.

One thing someone will have to help me on is, what is this "attitude" problem he has? I have not heard that outside the 'zone.

EDIT: If being able to block well is a criteria for a FA TE, then there isn't one that is available that can also catch the ball. I would rather hang with Kittle and Celek as pass receivers and draft a good blocker that can also catch a bit to replace Paulsen.

Beside him not being a good fit for a Shanahan system (lack of blocking ability), consider these:

• getting up in age
• a little fragile for his build … tends to ding easily
• hasn't been the same player, since Dashon Goldson took his soul
• has a tendency to get Alligator Arms … see bullet #3

Originally posted by sacniner:
Bruh, that college kid has NEVER blocked in the NFL. Chilo Rachal and Kwame Harris were willing, and good blockers in college.

I'm just saying, based off what I've seen Goedert is already far more dedicated to blocking. Graham was never a good blocker at any level, college or the NFL. Its not that he's unable to either. Physically there is no reason why he couldn't at least be an average blocker, he's just always been disinterested in doing it. He's like to catch the ball, he likes being an oversized receiver, he dedicates all his effort to that.

I know the narrative, and mostly factual, perception of Graham is that he is a joke of a blocker. He also said in the past he is a WR, not a TE. Don't blame him as he was tryna get paid. But, the story out of Seattle is that he is much improved in the blocking game. As he is older, maybe he is a more willing blocker. His blocking metrics have improved this year (career best).

I really haven't seen the improvement and I've watched a bunch of Seattle games, even attended one in person as I've been going back and forth between Washington monthly over the past 6 months for business. If it hasn't happened at this point, I doubt that it is coming anytime in the future. He is what he is, an oversized receiver that can catch but shows zero desire to block on any level. You can talk to Seahawks fans about it and they'll tell you the same thing, as well as the Seahawks beat guys. He's been fantastic in the redzone but has been drops prone and they've all pretty much given up hope on any effort from him as a blocker.

My doot, Delanie is one of the best TEs in the NFL. He would be a great fit anywhere. Not being a meanie, but no crap he would be a good fit lol.

That is the kind of guy Shanahan is looking for. When he's in the game, you don't know whether the offense is running or passing and you have to respect his ability in either facet. Kittle is that kind of player in that he can block and catch. If they address TE in FA or the draft, I expect a similar player to be added, a TE that is equal parts threat to block or catch.

Not saying that Graham being signed is impossible, I would just argue its unlikely based on Shanahan's history of TE's and also based on how this team has been gradually getting younger and moving away from guys that don't fit the scheme particularly well. If they move on from Hyde, I imagine it would be for the exact same reason, that they want a guy who is more capable of taking it to the outside and making plays as a receiver deep down the field.

I'm not going lose sleep if we don't' go after a cheap deal w/ him, but it would be intriguing.

I get what you're saying, I just don't believe that Graham is going to be high up on their list for all the aforementioned reasons. If he was cheap enough, they might kick the rocks with him but I see there being a very competitive market for teams who won't care about his blocking ability and will be willing to pay up for what they still consider to be a premier receiving threat.

Considering his age, I think the team goes with someone that will likely be a better fit overall, maybe not as explosive but a much more balanced player. NY mentioned Trey Burton and I could see a guy like that who is a lot younger, one of the best backup TE's in football, a TE with explosiveness as well as blocking ability who appears primed for a bigger role elsewhere.

Originally posted by dj43:
I don't understand why Seattle made that deal.

Graham was awesome in the passing game in New Orleans. Seattle was struggling with their passing game but that was more because their OL was crummy and gave Willow little time to scan the field and select a target. So-o-o-o, Seattle trades their best pass protector for a TE that will not be getting many targets because the QB doesn't have time to wait for the TE to settle into the open spot in the zone or deep middle.

One thing someone will have to help me on is, what is this "attitude" problem he has? I have not heard that outside the 'zone.

EDIT: If being able to block well is a criteria for a FA TE, then there isn't one that is available that can also catch the ball. I would rather hang with Kittle and Celek as pass receivers and draft a good blocker that can also catch a bit to replace Paulsen.

I'm all for adding a redzone threat but I want it to be someone that fits the offense entirely. Get a big TE that can elevate for the football in the endzone, but a guy who can also contribute as a blocker. If they can sign Graham cheap, sure, I just don't expect him to go cheap, there will be demand for him and multiple teams showing interest. I don't see anyway his salary goes under $7 million a season. Lots of teams with cap space and needs for offensive weapons, I think it is inevitable that someone is going to pay up bigtime for him. People may disagree, thats just how I see it and from what I've heard from the media in Seattle, nobody there expects that it will be cheap to bring him back either.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by dj43:
I don't understand why Seattle made that deal.

Graham was awesome in the passing game in New Orleans. Seattle was struggling with their passing game but that was more because their OL was crummy and gave Willow little time to scan the field and select a target. So-o-o-o, Seattle trades their best pass protector for a TE that will not be getting many targets because the QB doesn't have time to wait for the TE to settle into the open spot in the zone or deep middle.

One thing someone will have to help me on is, what is this "attitude" problem he has? I have not heard that outside the 'zone.

EDIT: If being able to block well is a criteria for a FA TE, then there isn't one that is available that can also catch the ball. I would rather hang with Kittle and Celek as pass receivers and draft a good blocker that can also catch a bit to replace Paulsen.

I'm all for adding a redzone threat but I want it to be someone that fits the offense entirely. Get a big TE that can elevate for the football in the endzone, but a guy who can also contribute as a blocker. If they can sign Graham cheap, sure, I just don't expect him to go cheap, there will be demand for him and multiple teams showing interest. I don't see anyway his salary goes under $7 million a season. Lots of teams with cap space and needs for offensive weapons, I think it is inevitable that someone is going to pay up bigtime for him. People may disagree, thats just how I see it and from what I've heard from the media in Seattle, nobody there expects that it will be cheap to bring him back either.

I agree he isn't going to accept anything like that. He currently gets $10,000,000, the most in the league. He is more like Coby Fleener for $7,200,000. PFF currently ranks him #35 among TEs.

Hard no on jimmy . Only room for one jimmy g.

He doesnt like to run block and hes a its all about me kinda guy.