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Originally posted by Morgan49:
Originally posted by LVJay:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Greenlaw ended the dynasty.


Malcom Butler ended the dynasty. Thank you mr. Butler.

Pete Caroll ended it by not taking accountability for the locker room after. Personally it could have been semi-salvageable had he made different moves. Once he went public that Bevell was staying and that they would have stuck with the same playcall, also putting none of it RW or on the defense (where they gave up 14 points in the 4th quarter), etc. The LOB, Marshawn Lynch and the defense was done with him and they were playing for paychecks and their next contracts. Too many fans were too busy looking at the talent of the team on paper screaming SB not realizing the locker room was done. But as a fan all you can do is hope for the best, it basically played out the way I expected (despite hoping for more).

It could have been much worse, so i should count myself lucky (when I look at teams that went in the utter toilet and have no real end in sight). I do wonder, truly what would a fan want to see?...be entertaining and in contention for like 15-20 years every year, but possibly never winning a championship. Or be in the toilet for 15-20 years, and maybe once or twice have a 2-3 year window where they win a championship only one time. btw I make the statement here not pointing at any particular team, just saying in general..what would a fan realy want to see for 15-20 years of their life? Because lets face it sports is just entertainment.
[ Edited by zaghawk on Jan 15, 2020 at 11:35 AM ]
Responding to Zaghawk. As far as being competitive for extended time with no titles or short spurts with titles mixed in? Today the answer is easy. Give me a SB win. Preferably a few weeks from now Hahahaha. That will tide me over for some time.

The current state of sports and the NFL in particular, in my opinion, is a win it all or you're just the top loser mind set. It's hard enough to make it to the Super Bowl(hi Kyle Williams) but to lose it well it sucks. No way around it. I've never bragged about being second best after ravens loss. Never watched the game a second time.

The sustained success model is probably the best however. As it allows you to be at or near the dance more frequently and when injuries happen, it opens up opportunity. What the Patriots have done will probably never be matched. They had the perfect storm come together and built a monster. They won many and lost a few but they were always around.
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Originally posted by facestabber:

Responding to Zaghawk. As far as being competitive for extended time with no titles or short spurts with titles mixed in? Today the answer is easy. Give me a SB win. Preferably a few weeks from now Hahahaha. That will tide me over for some time.

The current state of sports and the NFL in particular, in my opinion, is a win it all or you're just the top loser mind set. It's hard enough to make it to the Super Bowl(hi Kyle Williams) but to lose it well it sucks. No way around it. I've never bragged about being second best after ravens loss. Never watched the game a second time.

The sustained success model is probably the best however. As it allows you to be at or near the dance more frequently and when injuries happen, it opens up opportunity. What the Patriots have done will probably never be matched. They had the perfect storm come together and built a monster. They won many and lost a few but they were always around.

I don't know. With the Draft, free agency, and trades, talent is so even that coaching matters more now than ever. Regarding Cheat Carroll, I think the reason he's been successful in Seadderall has been his defensive acumen, and Midget Wilson's annoying offensive talent to be mobile and have that big accurate arm.

Kyle's a fantastic coach, and I can see him potentially replicating what Bill Bellicheat has done. Bill's a great coach and I think one of the biggest keys to his success (and to Cheat's success too) is that he's had a number of undrafted free agents play very well for him to sustain that incredible run of 6 super bowls, and Kyle's undrafted guys are doing well too. So I have hope for the future for more championships, so long as we retain Kyle and that Kyle and John maintain a good relationship with each other.
I love it how we don't have to worry about the hawks anymore. They will still be competitive however they'll never be more than a wildcard.


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Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:



ya, it's happening. they want major changes. Always thought he was a good coach, but the decision to suddenly force feed the ball to an old, fat Lynch, has me second guessing. It cost them the game against us with that delay of game penalty. I think Homer would've been more effective against the packers too. add that to his dumb decision on the GL in the superbowl, I'd hate him too.

us, he's old as fk. will probably on the sidelines choking on that gum.
[ Edited by ArmsteadBoner on Jan 16, 2020 at 5:19 AM ]
I know I don't want a new coach because why give up a winning product for one that can bring you back into a decade of crap. BUT I am growing tired of seeing the weaknesses exposed for PC's strategy with little to no adaptation. My almost 70 year old mother was complaining to me yesterday about what seemed like very predictable offensive playcalling and was unsure if she was right. And I had to tell her she was absolutely right and imagine ourselves as casual fans noticing how predictable it was, how easy it must be for professional NFL Coaches to gameplan for (which they do). I don't want a new coach, but I do want Pete to make adjustments. I personally don't think he will, he doesnt deserve to get fired, but it does level set my expectations that he may not win another SB and just remain "in the mix" until he finally retires. As fans you want a SB win every year, but then again as fans you sure as hell don't want 3-5 years of 2-4 win seasons hoping MAYBE just MAYBE you'll get a contending team after that (and even then there's no guarantee you'll even get a playoff team out of that). I'll continue to hope maybe Pete will prove me wrong and make the adjustments neccessary to be more creative on offense starting earlier in the game and that John Schneider will start drafting better again. Hopefully by the time that comes around Niners will be coming down from their peak. Having two divisional rivalries at their peaks definitely enhances the rivalry, but when it comes to SB windows...you want as little obstacles in the way as possible. Iron sharpens iron, but it sure as hell helps to have home games and lock divisions earlier on with more rest for players and playtime for backups.
Originally posted by zaghawk:
I know I don't want a new coach because why give up a winning product for one that can bring you back into a decade of crap. BUT I am growing tired of seeing the weaknesses exposed for PC's strategy with little to no adaptation. My almost 70 year old mother was complaining to me yesterday about what seemed like very predictable offensive playcalling and was unsure if she was right. And I had to tell her she was absolutely right and imagine ourselves as casual fans noticing how predictable it was, how easy it must be for professional NFL Coaches to gameplan for (which they do). I don't want a new coach, but I do want Pete to make adjustments. I personally don't think he will, he doesnt deserve to get fired, but it does level set my expectations that he may not win another SB and just remain "in the mix" until he finally retires. As fans you want a SB win every year, but then again as fans you sure as hell don't want 3-5 years of 2-4 win seasons hoping MAYBE just MAYBE you'll get a contending team after that (and even then there's no guarantee you'll even get a playoff team out of that). I'll continue to hope maybe Pete will prove me wrong and make the adjustments neccessary to be more creative on offense starting earlier in the game and that John Schneider will start drafting better again. Hopefully by the time that comes around Niners will be coming down from their peak. Having two divisional rivalries at their peaks definitely enhances the rivalry, but when it comes to SB windows...you want as little obstacles in the way as possible. Iron sharpens iron, but it sure as hell helps to have home games and lock divisions earlier on with more rest for players and playtime for backups.


I don't think the Seahawks should fire Pete. I remember when the 49ers showed Seifert the door and it didn't work out. Now, could Seifert take them to another SB... probably not, but you wouldn't have the expediated decline that came with Mooch... and Mooch's draft choices.

In the end, I don't think the Seahawks get into the playoffs let alone the divisional round if Pete isn't coaching and employing specific techniques to get wins. And Carroll's defensive strategies (questionable as they may be) work and work well.
[ Edited by Geeked on Jan 16, 2020 at 9:10 AM ]
Originally posted by Geeked:
I don't think the Seahawks should fire Pete. I remember when the 49ers showed Seifert the door and it didn't work out. Now, could Seifert take them to another SB... probably not, but you wouldn't have the expediated decline that came with Mooch... and Mooch's draft choices.

In the end, I don't think the Seahawks get into the playoffs let alone the divisional round if Pete isn't coaching and employing specific techniques to get wins. And Carroll's defensive strategies (questionable as they may be) work and work well.

Good points.

Like Carroll and the defense, people tend to overlook what Bevell and Schottenheimer (and Pete as well) have done for Wilson. People don't understand that an elite OC maybe helps the Seahawks 10-20% at best (scheming to get guys open, better run game) but ultimately without a commitment to backyard ball, Wilson is not a top 5 QB by any shape or form.

I've grown to tolerate Wilson being seen as a top QB, but it must be defined properly. Without backyard ball, he's not a top 10 or even 15 QB. That's a statement I'm willing to make even today, and it's sure AF 10000% true his first few years in the league.

Only thing I could say is that maybe Wilson could thrive a bit with Arians' deep ball system and a handful of others similar to it. But WCO he's nothing special.
Originally posted by zaghawk:
It could have been much worse, so i should count myself lucky (when I look at teams that went in the utter toilet and have no real end in sight). I do wonder, truly what would a fan want to see?...be entertaining and in contention for like 15-20 years every year, but possibly never winning a championship. Or be in the toilet for 15-20 years, and maybe once or twice have a 2-3 year window where they win a championship only one time. btw I make the statement here not pointing at any particular team, just saying in general..what would a fan realy want to see for 15-20 years of their life? Because lets face it sports is just entertainment.
For me, it's easy - give me 15-20 years of contention with no guarantee.

imo, titles are kind of overrated. Cool, my team won the Super Bowl. I feel jubilation and special for a day or two. Then the novelty wears off. Then a few months later, the title means nothing because the slate is wiped clean and everyone starts from scratch again.

My life is appreciably better if my team is constantly in contention. I have something to look forward to every week. I get bonus games during the playoffs. I'm much more interested in discussing the team online. My life is not appreciably better if they win the title (versus, say, narrowly-losing the 2012 Super Bowl); it's like marginally different.

Win or lose, I derive the most enjoyment from games when they are entertaining. Even the aforementioned SB, despite the loss, was entertaining and riveting as hell. Give me a guarantee of 15-20 years of guarantee entertainment. It's just a game. As much as I love it, I can't take it too seriously.

Originally posted by theduke85:
For me, it's easy - give me 15-20 years of contention with no guarantee.

imo, titles are kind of overrated. Cool, my team won the Super Bowl. I feel jubilation and special for a day or two. Then the novelty wears off. Then a few months later, the title means nothing because the slate is wiped clean and everyone starts from scratch again.

My life is appreciably better if my team is constantly in contention. I have something to look forward to every week. I get bonus games during the playoffs. I'm much more interested in discussing the team online. My life is not appreciably better if they win the title (versus, say, narrowly-losing the 2012 Super Bowl); it's like marginally different.

Win or lose, I derive the most enjoyment from games when they are entertaining. Even the aforementioned SB, despite the loss, was entertaining and riveting as hell. Give me a guarantee of 15-20 years of guarantee entertainment. It's just a game. As much as I love it, I can't take it too seriously.

To add on to this, it is sooo much less stressful as a fan to have a team constantly competing year over year than a team that sells out for a 3 year window. After a sh*tty stretch Harbaalke came in and started with an amazing draft class, it had been so long since winning and having a good team that every loss felt personal. That lasted 3 years before more losing. Shanalynch came in and even when they lost it felt different because you could see the upward trend happening. Then comes this season where each loss feels like a "oh crap are we about to go back to the gutters" moment. The heart can only take so much lol.

But a team that is always in contention doesnt have the same feeling of "this is our only chance!!!." Which would provide so much more stress relief. Now granted there is a caveat that if the team wins a SB early in the coach/gm tenure, its going to be easy to overlook playoff losses. I wouldnt want to be the Bills or Indy before Manning won his first either.
Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:



I have to imagine the majority of fans turning on him have only been Seahawks fans since 2012.

Including this year the only fanbase that has had it better than the Seahawks for the last decade is the Patriots.

That's 30 fanbases who would trade what the Seahawks have been able to do it year in and year out under Carroll for what they got.

I buncha 2012ers who think making the playoffs year after year after year really isn't good enough and that it could be better. Whatever. Hopefully they'll get what they want.
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:



I have to imagine the majority of fans turning on him have only been Seahawks fans since 2012.

Including this year the only fanbase that has had it better than the Seahawks for the last decade is the Patriots.

That's 30 fanbases who would trade what the Seahawks have been able to do it year in and year out under Carroll for what they got.

I buncha 2012ers who think making the playoffs year after year after year really isn't good enough and that it could be better. Whatever. Hopefully they'll get what they want.

I actually was having this conversation with some friends and Patriots aside, #2 team of the decade would be the Hawks or possibly The Broncos just regarding SB Wins, SB Appearances and playoff appearances. Although for playoff appearances, the Hawks edge the Broncos. Although if we were to talk about NFC/AFC championship games, then it changes a little, as some teams have had more Championship game appearances, but not as many SB appearances.
Still an active thread.
I'm shocked. Figured it's be dead till about May.
Winning Super Bowls requires a lot of luck since teams are so close talent wise. Look at last year. NE is only in because of an offsides and LA is only in because of a blown call. You look at the NE SB's and 8 out of 9 of them are like one play from a different winner. Chances are with a 3 year window you'll end up like JH even if you have the best squad. There's no guarantee ever nowadays.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Jan 17, 2020 at 3:01 AM ]
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