DeForest Buckner Traded to the Colts

Originally posted by thl408:

I think they could have afforded Buckner.

My speculation here. I think the 49ers called around to see what they can get by trading Buckner and by trading AA, to gauge the market for each of them. When IND offered #13 overall for Buckner, that's when the team seriously entertained the idea. Had the best offer for Buckner been a mid 2nd, for example, perhaps the team re-signs Buckner and trades AA for a 3rd rounder (whatever the market price was for AA).



My point is that the #13 overall was too enticing for the 49ers as it offered a chance to make moves geared towards sustained success (blue chip prospect at #13, trade down for more cheap contributors).

Exactly. This was about value. DeFo has it, Armstead didn't. Obviously we are a weaker team as of today, but if we draft well, we should recover. The Colts aren't stupid, they know what they're getting.

Originally posted by T-9ers:

Originally posted by thl408:

I think they could have afforded Buckner.

My speculation here. I think the 49ers called around to see what they can get by trading Buckner and by trading AA, to gauge the market for each of them. When IND offered #13 overall for Buckner, that's when the team seriously entertained the idea. Had the best offer for Buckner been a mid 2nd, for example, perhaps the team re-signs Buckner and trades AA for a 3rd rounder (whatever the market price was for AA).



My point is that the #13 overall was too enticing for the 49ers as it offered a chance to make moves geared towards sustained success (blue chip prospect at #13, trade down for more cheap contributors).

Exactly. This was about value. DeFo has it, Armstead didn't. Obviously we are a weaker team as of today, but if we draft well, we should recover. The Colts aren't stupid, they know what they're getting.

Trade back for 3 additional picks and a Lynch would mature greatly as a GM. The first 2 rounds are like splitting hairs anyways. Sure I wouldn't mind Ruggs, Jeudy or Lamb but were getting good value out of the guys we have.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by matt49er:
This move really shocked me, after the initial shock wore off, I understand it and actually think it makes perfect sense. Like many of you have said, it hurts though, I always envisioned Buckner being on this team a long time, he's a cornerstone. But it was the right decision for the franchise.

With that said, the team needs to invest a high draft pick in a DT. I understand DJ Jones can see an expanded role and we're pretty deep still on the interior DL with Taylor, Street, Thomas, Givens and AA/Blaire being able to play both edge and inside. Still, we just lost one of the best DT's in football, replacing him with his former backups is going to mean the DL takes a step back, the same DL that was our team strength and got us to the Super Bowl last year.

I know everyone wants one of the elite 3 WRs with the 13th pick & I'm excited for that very real possibility as well. I do wonder though if it would make sense to grab one of the 2 elite DTs in this draft whom are both top 10 prospects & grab a WR with either pick 31 or a 2nd round pick if we do trade down from that pick. It's going to be interesting to see how the team addresses everything after this deal.

The only sense that comes out of trading a top DL for the #13 pick so that we can draft another DL who probably won't contribute until his second season would be for financial reasons. This isn't the reason why we traded DeFo for the 13th pick. Our team needs to score points and the offense needs to scare defenses.

Right now, the only person on our offense that scares defenses is Kyle. That won't cut it.

we just got to the super bowl the exact opposite way. running the ball 90% of the time and having the best front four in the nfl.

Originally posted by WestCoastO:

Trade back for 3 additional picks and a Lynch would mature greatly as a GM. The first 2 rounds are like splitting hairs anyways. Sure I wouldn't mind Ruggs, Jeudy or Lamb but were getting good value out of the guys we have.

Yup, if your target ain't there, move back. If we really want Jeudy or one of those tackles and they're all gone, move back.

Originally posted by SisterFister:
Could we really not have afforded Buckner? I see a lot of cuts the 49ers could have made to save cap dollars. Do we really need Tevin Coleman with Mostert/Breida/Wilson? Do we need Goodwin? Nzeocha? McKinnon?

To me it looks like we needed to make it work for just 1 season. Sherman's $13 million and Sollys $9 million come off the books next year. Have the option to cut Dee Ford and save another $13 million.

The TV deals and 17 game season could increase the cap to 230-240 million in 2021. Just in time for extensions to Kittle and Warner.

I would have been just fine letting Ward walk too knowing we would have Buck, Ford, Bosa, and Armstead together for at least 1 more season.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/16/inside-the-deforest-buckner-deal/

We could have afforded his new deal over AA..something fishy going on.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
We got the 13th pick for Buck. What did the Texans got for Hopkins... lol

We shoulda made a run on Hopkins instead of that TE from Atlanta..

Originally posted by T-9ers:
Exactly. This was about value. DeFo has it, Armstead didn't. Obviously we are a weaker team as of today, but if we draft well, we should recover. The Colts aren't stupid, they know what they're getting.

The Colts are desperate to stop that steamroller from Tennessee. Buck gets to try to stop Derrick Henry twice a year now. He'll earn his money.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by SisterFister:
Could we really not have afforded Buckner? I see a lot of cuts the 49ers could have made to save cap dollars. Do we really need Tevin Coleman with Mostert/Breida/Wilson? Do we need Goodwin? Nzeocha? McKinnon?

To me it looks like we needed to make it work for just 1 season. Sherman's $13 million and Sollys $9 million come off the books next year. Have the option to cut Dee Ford and save another $13 million.

The TV deals and 17 game season could increase the cap to 230-240 million in 2021. Just in time for extensions to Kittle and Warner.

I would have been just fine letting Ward walk too knowing we would have Buck, Ford, Bosa, and Armstead together for at least 1 more season.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/16/inside-the-deforest-buckner-deal/

We could have afforded his new deal over AA..something fishy going on.

Of course we could have afforded him but it would have hurt us long term and that's a fact. It was sign Buck for mega bucks and let Arm walk or sign Arm, Ward and get the 13th pick in the draft.

So one extremely high priced player or one reasonably priced player (who had better stat last season), Ward, and the 13th pick (aka a potential starter on the cheap for 5 years).

I'm hoping we draft the best WR or TE available and trade 31 for more picks. This trade could change our franchise for the better for 5 years!

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by NinerLegionnaire:

Every year ppl clamor for a WR with our 1st round pick. Most years im against it. This year especially.

Few Reasons:

1. Run 1st philosophy.
2. 3 young Wrs (Samuel, Bourne, Hurd)
3. 3 DB's become FA's after 2020 (Sherm, Witherspoon, and Mosley)
4. Cap space created from trade 12 mil and change is AAV floor for Kittle.
5. Team can't afford to pay FA DB's.
6. 2020 draft has at least 4 1st rd WR prospects if not more.
7. Team has 2 1st rd picks.

Lets recap.

Deep WR draft, for a run 1st team with very little cap space wiggle room, that has a secondary that could be completely different in 2 years.

Also can't forget about the oline. Interior starters could be improved and depth at OT is also a need.

You already know Kyle is drooling over this WR class. And losing to a faster, more high powered offense in the Superbowl probably doesn't sit well with him either.

Everything you said just proves my point.

There's 6 or 7 Wrs that can go in the 1st and maybe 3 or 4 CB's. Which means logic then dictates you can find a better WR prospect in the 2nd round and on then you could a CB. Looking at this draft class that is obviously the case. KS could nab a Brandon Aiyuk or Michael Pittman in the mid to late 2nd or early 3rd and these guys would produce in his scheme. You can't say that at CB.

Yes KC's high powered offense exposed a weakness and it isn't on offense. It was the 2nd CB. Witherspoon is inconsistent and Moseley although a try hard, has a ceiling. That and the defense needs more depth. Injuries on the dline increased the starters snap counts and they wore down at the end.

And again idk why this keeps getting completely ignored.

This team especially with upcoming extensions does not I repeat does not have the money to bring in quality FA's. They will need to draft and develop to sustain success.

At WR there is Deebo Samuel, Kendrick Bourne and to supplement there is Jalen Hurd and Trent Taylor. Each is young and has shown at the very least competence and the ability to produce. Yes Hurd only played in the preseason, but snagging contested catches amd running through guys translates. Each will be on the team in 2021.

At DB there is Richard Sherman, Akhello Witherspoon, and Emmanuel Moseley. Each will be a FA after 2020. Who are the 49ers going to replace the 1 2 and 3 CB's with?

Dontae Johnson, Tim Harris, and DJ Reed? Better hope not.

This team needs 2 CB's to challenge WR's. They have 1 in Sherman but not for much longer at his age even if they can re-sign him to a short extension. They don't have the money to pay 1 in FA so they need to draft 1. The team has young WR's already. Can they use another WR, yes but not with their very 1st pick when there are more talented players at positions of greater needs, i.e, CB and OL.

Originally posted by 49er4life:

Of course we could have afforded him but it would have hurt us long term and that's a fact. It was sign Buck for mega bucks and let Arm walk or sign Arm, Ward and get the 13th pick in the draft.

So one extremely high priced player or one reasonably priced player (who had better stat last season), Ward, and the 13th pick (aka a potential starter on the cheap for 5 years).

I'm hoping we draft the best WR or TE available and trade 31 for more picks. This trade could change our franchise for the better for 5 years!

Very well said

Very important draft for the niners

Originally posted by NinerLegionnaire:

At DB there is Richard Sherman, Akhello Witherspoon, and Emmanuel Moseley. Each will be a FA after 2020. Who are the 49ers going to replace the 1 2 and 3 CB's with?

Dontae Johnson, Tim Harris, and DJ Reed? Better hope not.

Is Jason Verrett officially out of the competition for playing time or is it just not likely he will play because he isn't recovering from injuries well enough?

Originally posted by 49erphan:

Originally posted by NinerLegionnaire:

At DB there is Richard Sherman, Akhello Witherspoon, and Emmanuel Moseley. Each will be a FA after 2020. Who are the 49ers going to replace the 1 2 and 3 CB's with?

Dontae Johnson, Tim Harris, and DJ Reed? Better hope not.

Is Jason Verrett officially out of the competition for playing time or is it just not likely he will play because he isn't recovering from injuries well enough?

I just don't believe the team could count on him being a contributor. Health-wise. If he would accept the minimum to try and rehab his stock on a contending team that could help depth-wise.

But if the team is in a position where they need significant starter snaps from him, imo, that's not a good situation.

Playing time wise, Sherm obviously, but both Witherspoon and Moseley and maybe even Reed in the nickel/dime back role have earned playing time over Verret.

There is a reason the team immediately benched and then deactivated him after he came in for a few snaps. Mostly due to health im sure, but what they saw when he was practicing doesn't seem to have been enough for them to think he could help them later on in the season.

His injury situation is different than a guy like Jimmy Ward's. With Jimmy he was breaking different bones in different collisions.

With Verret his knee/achilles doesn't seem to be able to hold up to wear and tear throughout OTA/TC/PS/ etc.

All to say his legs will continue to get worse throughout a season and as his history shows it gets to the point he just can't compete.

"Traded an All-Pro two-time team captain who was a sure thing when it came to availability and production."

Originally posted by LVJay:

"Traded an All-Pro two-time team captain who was a sure thing when it came to availability and production."

Definitely sucks, but Kittle would have been even harder if not impossible to keep if they paid Buck 20+ mil a year. 4 mil difference doesn't seem like much but through the length of a contract that 16 to 20 mil does make a difference, especially with how contracts are structured.

Bit of a stretch, but maybe players will think of this and let their agents know, Hey I want to play here so work with the team in regards to structure.

Buck could have been paid here if he/agent didn't demand the high aav. Especially with how Paarage Marthe structures. 21 mil each year is too much for a contending team that is already invested heavily in the dline and has other positional needs.

Look at Jimmy's contract structure. He was paid at an high above market rate for the 1st year maybe the 2nd also, then it dropped. Now with other QB's signing contracts he is closer to middle of the pack with an aav of like 28.5 or something. When guys like Russel Wilson have a 33.5 aav.

Buck's contract could have been structured similarly to Jimmy G's where he has a very high cap hit for 2 years and then an average cap hit for the rest. Although his high cap years would have probably had to be pushed towards later years in the contract. Which could be offset by guaranteeing those years so Buck has insurance so to speak(team would have to trade him or pay him and eat the cap anyways if they released him).

Instead he/agent wanted everyone talking about how he makes the 2nd most money per year behind Aaron Donald. Which made it impossible for the 49ers to keep him long term.

Originally posted by NinerLegionnaire:
Definitely sucks, but Kittle would have been even harder if not impossible to keep if they paid Buck 20+ mil a year. 4 mil difference doesn't seem like much but through the length of a contract that 16 to 20 mil does make a difference, especially with how contracts are structured.

Bit of a stretch, but maybe players will think of this and let their agents know, Hey I want to play here so work with the team in regards to structure.

Buck could have been paid here if he/agent didn't demand the high aav. Especially with how Paarage Marthe structures. 21 mil each year is too much for a contending team that is already invested heavily in the dline and has other positional needs.

Look at Jimmy's contract structure. He was paid at an high above market rate for the 1st year maybe the 2nd also, then it dropped. Now with other QB's signing contracts he is closer to middle of the pack with an aav of like 28.5 or something. When guys like Russel Wilson have a 33.5 aav.

Buck's contract could have been structured similarly to Jimmy G's where he has a very high cap hit for 2 years and then an average cap hit for the rest. Although his high cap years would have probably had to be pushed towards later years in the contract. Which could be offset by guaranteeing those years so Buck has insurance so to speak(team would have to trade him or pay him and eat the cap anyways if they released him).

Instead he/agent wanted everyone talking about how he makes the 2nd most money per year behind Aaron Donald. Which made it impossible for the 49ers to keep him long term.

Good and very well thought out post (like some I've already read)

I'll eventually get over this move, but it's gonna be a while