Should the NFL take steps to reduce crowd noise in stadiums

Originally posted by Shawnsim:
Okay Memphis, you have not responded to my post about feedback. Just wondering what an expert might say.

go back a page Einstein...

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by crabman82:
stadium design is for sure a part of it, you still have to be loud to take advantage of it though. niner fans need to ask themselves, if we had a stadium like that and were loud at the games and considered to be the loudest, would we not wear that as a badge of honor? of course we would, whether we were the loudest or it was just the product of a stadium structure doesnt really matter.

true, but we are smart enough to know that and wouldn't think we are the best fan base in the universe

while some would be level headed and think that. you cant deny there would be the segment who takes the rub as "the loudest fans" and totally runs with it. we have fans who canted WE WANT CARR, lets not over sell our intelligence.

Fans wanted anyone but AS out there...it's has nothing to do with intelligence

We know where we are and we know how to act cause we been there before, unless some one takes it too far like seattle fans did

i'll just leave it at this, if we had their stadium and the rub as the loudest fans, you can bet your bottom $ we'd have a lot of fans running around claiming to be the best cus we create the most crowd noise. if you disagree for whatever reason, thats fine.

Originally posted by pete98146:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
As others have mentioned, just install speakers in ALL of the offensive players helmets. Let the fans go crazy, break noise-level records and have a blast, but have it be irrelevant to the ACTUAL play on the field. Let the skill/preparation of the teams and the players be the ultimate deciding factor, not the design of the stadium or the fans seated in it.

I agree! It's ok to be loud but it's a real disadvantage when the offensive players can't communicate. Problem solved! Also, the fans know that their yelling doesn't matter as much so you'd think they'd be less loud because they'd be wasting their voices for nothing....

Love the idea but then again, I'm not a Hawks fan. I'm sure most Hawks fans would be opposed to this idea because it would offset their HUGE advantage.

f**k 'em.

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by crabman82:
stadium design is for sure a part of it, you still have to be loud to take advantage of it though. niner fans need to ask themselves, if we had a stadium like that and were loud at the games and considered to be the loudest, would we not wear that as a badge of honor? of course we would, whether we were the loudest or it was just the product of a stadium structure doesnt really matter.

true, but we are smart enough to know that and wouldn't think we are the best fan base in the universe

while some would be level headed and think that. you cant deny there would be the segment who takes the rub as "the loudest fans" and totally runs with it. we have fans who canted WE WANT CARR, lets not over sell our intelligence.

Fans wanted anyone but AS out there...it's has nothing to do with intelligence

We know where we are and we know how to act cause we been there before, unless some one takes it too far like seattle fans did

i'll just leave it at this, if we had their stadium and the rub as the loudest fans, you can bet your bottom $ we'd have a lot of fans running around claiming to be the best cus we create the most crowd noise. if you disagree for whatever reason, thats fine.

Sharks are one of the loudest if not thee loudest arena in Hockey..No one is going around claiming we are the best fan base

Different sport but same Bay area fans

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
The part that makes me skeptical is that extra 10 or so db that cannot possibly come from human vocal chords.

Lets have a look at this claim. You seem to be getting hung up on one sound source.

If I stand next to a aircraft taking of I can experience a dB level of around 120 give or take. What happens if I stand between 2 aircraft taking off, will the noise level be 120dB (using your logic that no sound can get above it maximum level no matter how many sources) or will it be 2 x 120 dB?

If only there was some kind of calculation that could work this out..... Wait a minute.....

If we bear in mind that sound measured with microphones or sensors is known as sound pressure then:

Adding Equal Sound Pressure Levels

The resulting sound pressure level when adding equal sound pressure can be expressed as:

Lpt = Lps + 20 log(n) (2)

where

Lpt = total sound pressure level (dB)

Lps = sound pressure level from each single source (dB)

n = number of sources


Using the above simple equation we can work out that the 2 aircraft would create a noise level of 126 dB. Interesting.

Q - What happens if we have 67000 single sources say, all shouting at mean of 40 dB and that sound is acoustically diverted toward a sound pressure level recording device?

A - 136.5 dB of noise.

Very interesting indeed.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by crabman82:
stadium design is for sure a part of it, you still have to be loud to take advantage of it though. niner fans need to ask themselves, if we had a stadium like that and were loud at the games and considered to be the loudest, would we not wear that as a badge of honor? of course we would, whether we were the loudest or it was just the product of a stadium structure doesnt really matter.

true, but we are smart enough to know that and wouldn't think we are the best fan base in the universe

while some would be level headed and think that. you cant deny there would be the segment who takes the rub as "the loudest fans" and totally runs with it. we have fans who canted WE WANT CARR, lets not over sell our intelligence.

Fans wanted anyone but AS out there...it's has nothing to do with intelligence

We know where we are and we know how to act cause we been there before, unless some one takes it too far like seattle fans did

i'll just leave it at this, if we had their stadium and the rub as the loudest fans, you can bet your bottom $ we'd have a lot of fans running around claiming to be the best cus we create the most crowd noise. if you disagree for whatever reason, thats fine.

Sharks are one of the loudest if not thee loudest arena in Hockey..No one is going around claiming we are the best fan base

Different sport but same Bay area fans

Like the Golden State Warriors

Originally posted by ChipDouglas510:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by crabman82:
stadium design is for sure a part of it, you still have to be loud to take advantage of it though. niner fans need to ask themselves, if we had a stadium like that and were loud at the games and considered to be the loudest, would we not wear that as a badge of honor? of course we would, whether we were the loudest or it was just the product of a stadium structure doesnt really matter.

true, but we are smart enough to know that and wouldn't think we are the best fan base in the universe

while some would be level headed and think that. you cant deny there would be the segment who takes the rub as "the loudest fans" and totally runs with it. we have fans who canted WE WANT CARR, lets not over sell our intelligence.

Fans wanted anyone but AS out there...it's has nothing to do with intelligence

We know where we are and we know how to act cause we been there before, unless some one takes it too far like seattle fans did

i'll just leave it at this, if we had their stadium and the rub as the loudest fans, you can bet your bottom $ we'd have a lot of fans running around claiming to be the best cus we create the most crowd noise. if you disagree for whatever reason, thats fine.

Sharks are one of the loudest if not thee loudest arena in Hockey..No one is going around claiming we are the best fan base

Different sport but same Bay area fans

Like the Golden State Warriors

and both of those stadiums hold like 20k or less...but can bring the same amount of decibel level...man they must be 3x as loud as seattle fans ever could be

Originally posted by London_Pride:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
The part that makes me skeptical is that extra 10 or so db that cannot possibly come from human vocal chords.

Lets have a look at this claim. You seem to be getting hung up on one sound source.

If I stand next to a aircraft taking of I can experience a dB level of around 120 give or take. What happens if I stand between 2 aircraft taking off, will the noise level be 120dB (using your logic that no sound can get above it maximum level no matter how many sources) or will it be 2 x 120 dB?

If only there was some kind of calculation that could work this out..... Wait a minute.....

If we bear in mind that sound measured with microphones or sensors is known as sound pressure then:

Adding Equal Sound Pressure Levels

The resulting sound pressure level when adding equal sound pressure can be expressed as:

Lpt = Lps + 20 log(n) (2)

where

Lpt = total sound pressure level (dB)

Lps = sound pressure level from each single source (dB)

n = number of sources


Using the above simple equation we can work out that the 2 aircraft would create a noise level of 126 dB. Interesting.

Q - What happens if we have 67000 single sources say, all shouting at mean of 40 dB and that sound is acoustically diverted toward a sound pressure level recording device?

A - 136.5 dB of noise.

Very interesting indeed.

You are seriously grasping at straws man. A voice will never reach that Db level without amplification...EVER. By that theory if everyone on the earth whispered at once we'd all be blasted by infinity decibels of sound. You cannot cram 67k people close enough to a microphone to gather that much sound. See my original post about how distance effects sound. You continue to ignore the fact that you are trying to argue with someone with 20+ years of practical, hands on experience in the specific field with googled facts that are incorrect and incomplete. I worked Sir paul McCartney's show in a stadium with 80k capacity and our db meter never even hit 126db, and I guarantee that he draws more applause than any football team. I advise you to quit before you further embarrass yourself, or that you spend the next 5-6 years learning how sound actually works before you try to fight a battle that you, once again, are very clearly not equipped to fight.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
You are seriously grasping at straws man. A voice will never reach that Db level without amplification...EVER. By that theory if everyone on the earth whispered at once we'd all be blasted by infinity decibels of sound. You cannot cram 67k people close enough to a microphone to gather that much sound. See my original post about how distance effects sound. You continue to ignore the fact that you are trying to argue with someone with 20+ years of practical, hands on experience in the specific field with googled facts that are incorrect and incomplete. I worked Sir paul McCartney's show in a stadium with 80k capacity and our db meter never even hit 126db, and I guarantee that he draws more applause than any football team. I advise you to quit before you further embarrass yourself, or that you spend the next 5-6 years learning how sound actually works before you try to fight a battle that you, once again, are very clearly not equipped to fight.

Hey you're the one claimed that multiple sources of sound couldnt get louder than than the theoretical maximum of one individual source. What is incorrect about the calculations and facts in my post? The distance you talk about is most likely offset by the acoustics of the stadium (probably the reason why more fans in KC could only get to the same noise level) or a higher mean individual source level of 40dB.

You may have done a few gigs but the calculations are accurate. I've shown that an individual source doesn't even have to get that loud if there are enough of them and the acoustics are correct.

You need to stop passing of your biased anecdotal "evidence" as fact. Again I ask, why would Galatasaray, the Chiefs and the Seahawks cheat and why would Guinness be complicit in this cheating?

You also forget these attempts were concerted efforts, people who go to a concert don't go to scream as loud as possible to set a world record.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
As others have mentioned, just install speakers in ALL of the offensive players helmets. Let the fans go crazy, break noise-level records and have a blast, but have it be irrelevant to the ACTUAL play on the field. Let the skill/preparation of the teams and the players be the ultimate deciding factor, not the design of the stadium or the fans seated in it.

Yes indeed, that it so much effects the game itself is why I don't like it. Win because you have the better team, not because your opponent can't execute due to artificially enhanced noise levels or stadium design.

Exactly. The crowd noise should be nothing more than intimidating to the opponent. It shouldn't be so loud that the opponent can't even hear or communicate with one another. That is when you are directly affecting the play on the field, which is very unfair and should be illegal. Since they can't really change the stadium design, the offense should have speakers in their helmets so they can f**kin play their game. It's real b******t that the fans can affect the actual play on the field like that.

Originally posted by London_Pride:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
You are seriously grasping at straws man. A voice will never reach that Db level without amplification...EVER. By that theory if everyone on the earth whispered at once we'd all be blasted by infinity decibels of sound. You cannot cram 67k people close enough to a microphone to gather that much sound. See my original post about how distance effects sound. You continue to ignore the fact that you are trying to argue with someone with 20+ years of practical, hands on experience in the specific field with googled facts that are incorrect and incomplete. I worked Sir paul McCartney's show in a stadium with 80k capacity and our db meter never even hit 126db, and I guarantee that he draws more applause than any football team. I advise you to quit before you further embarrass yourself, or that you spend the next 5-6 years learning how sound actually works before you try to fight a battle that you, once again, are very clearly not equipped to fight.

Hey you're the one claimed that multiple sources of sound couldnt get louder than than the theoretical maximum of one individual source. What is incorrect about the calculations and facts in my post? The distance you talk about is most likely offset by the acoustics of the stadium (probably the reason why more fans in KC could only get to the same noise level) or a higher mean individual source level of 40dB.

You may have done a few gigs but the calculations are accurate. I've shown that an individual source doesn't even have to get that loud if there are enough of them and the acoustics are correct.

You need to stop passing of your biased anecdotal "evidence" as fact. Again I ask, why would Galatasaray, the Chiefs and the Seahawks cheat and why would Guinness be complicit in this cheating?

You also forget these attempts were concerted efforts, people who go to a concert don't go to scream as loud as possible to set a world record.

You totally ignore how distance effects sound, you can google all the formulas you want, but that doesn't mean you understand how sound works, like I said in an earlier post sound looses power over distance exponentially, what you cut and pasted is only part of a very complicated equations with many variables. But you know what, have it your way, Seahawk fans are just naturally the loudest humans on the planet, congrats you guys can have that, I will take the Superbowl championships. I am tired of trying to teach you sound dynamics, I would have to charge you for that.

For the record if you take your theoretical maximum limit of 126dB and have 67000 people do it at the same time then the recorded level would be 222.5 dB.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
You totally ignore how distance effects sound, you can google all the formulas you want, but that doesn't mean you understand how sound works, like I said in an earlier post sound looses power over distance exponentially, what you cut and pasted is only part of a very complicated equations with many variables.

And you are ignoring the amplification and acoustic variable that is the stadium itself. Google Acoustic Mirror and come back to me.

Originally posted by London_Pride:
For the record if you take your theoretical maximum limit of 126dB and have 67000 people do it at the same time then the recorded level would be 222.5 dB.

you totally do not understand what you are talking about...have a nice day.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
You totally ignore how distance effects sound, you can google all the formulas you want, but that doesn't mean you understand how sound works, like I said in an earlier post sound looses power over distance exponentially, what you cut and pasted is only part of a very complicated equations with many variables. But you know what, have it your way, Seahawk fans are just naturally the loudest humans on the planet, congrats you guys can have that, I will take the Superbowl championships. I am tired of trying to teach you sound dynamics, I would have to charge you for that.

I dont give a monkeys about the record, just answering the falsehoods you want to spread using no evidence other than "I'm a sound expert".

Those 5 rings havent helped you so far since the realignment in 2002 have they?