How many games will the Chiefs win PYMWYMI

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
So how many more wins will the Chiefs get this season? We'll probably be drafting somewhere around 52 to 60 with that pick. Still will be in a good position to get some good talent.

Niners will be trading up so they won't use that pick! They need a DB (Purifoy or Clinton-Dix) and a WR (Matthews or Evans late 1st) who can make plays. Trade up and up to two firsts--20ish and 30ish.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by hofer36:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Empire49:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by hofer36:

Originally posted by csjwilkinson:

The better the Chiefs do the better. That's a gramatical nightmare but you catch my drift.

Anything that helps us is good. The Chiefs suck and I'm waiting for the bubble to burst but lets get the required number of wins out of them first. That was my thinking early in the season.

if you think the chiefs suck, well, maybe you should take up a new hobby

Chiefs are very similar to 2011 Niners and that team went 13-3 and should have won the Super Bowl. Now at 7-0 they are very good but I don't think they can beat us even at 5-2

Wouldn't want to play them in KC.

The only decent team KC has played is Dallas, and that team is far from good. I'm glad KC is winning, but it's meaningless unless they can beat a quality opponent. Granted, they have not faced a quality opponent yet, so it isn't their fault of course.

I could say the same about Denver or the 9ers.

Packers don't count?

how are the packers any more of a test than the cowboys?

Very interesting how some see the Cowboys at the same level as GB. There is some real reaching going on here.

Both teams are ranked top 10. Are the Packers the better team? Maybe.. If they are it isn't by much.

Originally posted by hofer36:

how are the packers any more of a test than the cowboys?

Packers /Rodgers >>> Cowgirls /Romo In my opinion. One a proven Super Bowl winner, the other....well you know....

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by hofer36:

how are the packers any more of a test than the cowboys?

Packers /Rodgers >>> Cowgirls /Romo In my opinion. One a proven Super Bowl winner, the other....well you know....

So are the Giants

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
Packers /Rodgers >>> Cowgirls /Romo In my opinion. One a proven Super Bowl winner, the other....well you know....

I'll give you the Eli Giants, the Roethlisberger Steelers, and the Flacco Ravens, and you give me the Wilson Seahawks, the Luck Colts, and the Kaepernick Niners and we'll see if the Proven Super Bowl Winner teams outperform the other...well you know...teams.

Originally posted by DarkKnight1680:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
Packers /Rodgers >>> Cowgirls /Romo In my opinion. One a proven Super Bowl winner, the other....well you know....

I'll give you the Eli Giants, the Roethlisberger Steelers, and the Flacco Ravens, and you give me the Wilson Seahawks, the Luck Colts, and the Kaepernick Niners and we'll see if the Proven Super Bowl Winner teams outperform the other...well you know...teams.

Sure...you can have them.

You do realize that the 9ers didn't beat either of those teams...right?

Originally posted by DarkKnight1680:
I'll give you the Eli Giants, the Roethlisberger Steelers, and the Flacco Ravens, and you give me the Wilson Seahawks, the Luck Colts, and the Kaepernick Niners and we'll see if the Proven Super Bowl Winner teams outperform the other...well you know...teams.

sounds good

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by hofer36:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Empire49:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by hofer36:

Originally posted by csjwilkinson:
The better the Chiefs do the better. That's a gramatical nightmare but you catch my drift.

Anything that helps us is good. The Chiefs suck and I'm waiting for the bubble to burst but lets get the required number of wins out of them first. That was my thinking early in the season.

if you think the chiefs suck, well, maybe you should take up a new hobby

Chiefs are very similar to 2011 Niners and that team went 13-3 and should have won the Super Bowl. Now at 7-0 they are very good but I don't think they can beat us even at 5-2

Wouldn't want to play them in KC.

The only decent team KC has played is Dallas, and that team is far from good. I'm glad KC is winning, but it's meaningless unless they can beat a quality opponent. Granted, they have not faced a quality opponent yet, so it isn't their fault of course.

I could say the same about Denver or the 9ers.

Packers don't count?

how are the packers any more of a test than the cowboys?

Very interesting how some see the Cowboys at the same level as GB. There is some real reaching going on here.

from the guy who got on a step stool and then stood on his tippy toes to put Dwayne Bowe on the top 5 receivers shelf

Originally posted by GNielsen:

Originally posted by Jakemall:
I could say the same about Denver or the 9ers.

Really? So you think the Chiefs have played a team as good as the Packers, who are #6 in offense and #6 in defense? You think that Chiefs offense could hang with the Packer offensive machine the way the Niners did? I don't think so.

Smith beat the packers last year with a similar score as a 9er.Virtually similar team. 9ers had an uglier recieving core tho.
Chiefs still beat the Cowboys , who are leaders of their division.

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I think Bowe is better because he can be effective on more parts of the field. Look at how reliable Crabs became when he had a QB who wasn't afraid to throw to him (Kap) when the coverage was tight. Bowe has been putting up better numbers under worse conditions. Once he gets a QB who isn't afraid to throw those types of balls and his targeted increases to 170, Bowe would easily be a top 5 receiver.

This was more about Kaep being young and OVERLY reliant on Crabtree... to the point of forcing passes his way. Aside from that, it was at the expense of Vernon Davis.. whose numbers and targets took quite a hit when Kaep came in.

Let's not play this game anymore... it's SO old and done with.

And didn't Crabs come through for Kap? But I thought Crabs wasn't a dependable WR before all that. Now let's get back to Bowe. So, how do you know Bowe can't come through if Alex must rely on him and force some throws? For some reason, it is Bowes lack of something that is keeping him from being an offensive force he he has already proven he can be that guy in past years? But it must have very little to do with the fact that Alex will go with a safer throw over sending a tougher, deeper throw in Bowes direction right? Your reasoning is because Bowe hasn't shown enough which is false because you are looking for a reason why his numbers are lower but do not want to admit that Smiths style is more about depending on certain areas of the field over others.

This isn't a bad thing about Alex. But, it isn't a great thing either. Had already predicted Bowes numbers will drop this year due to the style of play of his QB. It is okay to accept rthat QBs have specific styles and that a QB cannot or will not do everything and has comfort areas.

Am I going to be the first one to point out that Smith threw to Bowe on a 3rd down slant pattern to try to sustain a 4th quarter drive against the Texans that was definitely catchable - Bowe was "NFL open" - yet the pass was dropped?

Smith trusts Bowe when the defensive read is to go to Bowe. Why all the broo-ha-ha?

Traditionally with Reid offenses, guys with speed, are what Reid looks for. The only exception was T.O but T.O was faster than Bowe.
However this is a first year offense for Smith. Fasano who is a dependable Receiver is doing well, you could tell they have good chemistry. Even tho he was hurt most of the time.
But look at another stat. Smiths Rushing yards have increased dramatically. Does it hint that maybee his Recievers are not trust worthy,at a time of panic.

Simply put , just watch a CHIEFS game.You will see that his performance isn't that poor. the majority of his incompletions come from dropped catches. Charles isn't that much of a stud on the inside run game like Gore.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:

Originally posted by Joecool:
And didn't Crabs come through for Kap? But I thought Crabs wasn't a dependable WR before all that. Now let's get back to Bowe. So, how do you know Bowe can't come through if Alex must rely on him and force some throws? For some reason, it is Bowes lack of something that is keeping him from being an offensive force he he has already proven he can be that guy in past years? But it must have very little to do with the fact that Alex will go with a safer throw over sending a tougher, deeper throw in Bowes direction right? Your reasoning is because Bowe hasn't shown enough which is false because you are looking for a reason why his numbers are lower but do not want to admit that Smiths style is more about depending on certain areas of the field over others.

This isn't a bad thing about Alex. But, it isn't a great thing either. Had already predicted Bowes numbers will drop this year due to the style of play of his QB. It is okay to accept rthat QBs have specific styles and that a QB cannot or will not do everything and has comfort areas.

Dude... the strawman doesn't really work for me here. What I said was that so far and on numerous plays, Alex HAS thrown to a tightly covered Bowe.. and that Bowe has either dropped quite a few or they were nicely knocked away from Bowe by a DB. Some strong WRs cling onto these passes better than what Bowe has shown lately. There are also quite a few routes that Bowe has been lazy and less than sharp on... these have led to incomplete passes and in one case, an INT.

Bowe IS a very capable WR... but there have been more times than expected that he has been lazy or ineffective for what he is being paid to do.

These are not attacks on Bowe.. they are fair criticisms that he is capable of better. I hope this finally can conclude this whole conversation.

It's not a straw-man. My side of this is based on stats. Your case is that he's dropped the tight passes when thrown to and been lazy. My point is that he needs to be targeted more often on those as they are not high percentage plays. That is where Alex Smith and his style of play, which is not bad, comes in.

Did you know, Bowe has been targeted only 44 times, has 25 rec for ONLY 295 yds? That targeted number is 53rd on the list of NFL pass catchers.

For a reference: Vernon Davis has been targeted 43 times, has 26 catches for 466 yds.
Boldin has been targeted 56 times, 34 catches for 495 yards.

Looks to me it is about the type of passes the QB decides to throw to them.

So, does Vernon drop as many as Bowe also? It's about low percentage plays and throwing the ball to those types of plays. It is obvious Bowe has mainly been thrown to on shorter routes and that directly relates to the comfort of his QB. I know you want to say play call but Reid has had a very good history of calling deep routes for WR's and Bowe has a very well known history of having a respectable average per catch.

Interesting that you point out that "thrown to stat" because BOWE last year looked like, THROWN to 114 ;Caught 59. Hes only had 1 multi TD year. So its not like if Bowe has suddenly hit the comedown, hes had his comedown about 2 seasons ago.

Interesting that you point out that REIDS offenses have deep route plays.
Yes but with Speedy Recivers, ussually under REID, big WRs aren't employed. T.O was the Exception but he was way faster than Bowe.

Avery is a REID reciver and at times he is that WR Reids needs him to be. But Avery drops a lot more HIGHLY EASY catchable passes...as in "even your daughter could of caught that pass".

I mean its a first year offense with a first year Coach. Certainly theres a lot of non-establisments in offense. New TE in Fasano, New Reciever in Avery, New QB in Smith. New HEAD COACH play style.

Its no wonder that Smith has to rush the ball a lot....and is the second leading Rusher in KC.

Originally posted by XD33:

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:

Originally posted by Joecool:

I think Bowe is better because he can be effective on more parts of the field. Look at how reliable Crabs became when he had a QB who wasn't afraid to throw to him (Kap) when the coverage was tight. Bowe has been putting up better numbers under worse conditions. Once he gets a QB who isn't afraid to throw those types of balls and his targeted increases to 170, Bowe would easily be a top 5 receiver.

This was more about Kaep being young and OVERLY reliant on Crabtree... to the point of forcing passes his way. Aside from that, it was at the expense of Vernon Davis.. whose numbers and targets took quite a hit when Kaep came in.

Let's not play this game anymore... it's SO old and done with.

And didn't Crabs come through for Kap? But I thought Crabs wasn't a dependable WR before all that. Now let's get back to Bowe. So, how do you know Bowe can't come through if Alex must rely on him and force some throws? For some reason, it is Bowes lack of something that is keeping him from being an offensive force he he has already proven he can be that guy in past years? But it must have very little to do with the fact that Alex will go with a safer throw over sending a tougher, deeper throw in Bowes direction right? Your reasoning is because Bowe hasn't shown enough which is false because you are looking for a reason why his numbers are lower but do not want to admit that Smiths style is more about depending on certain areas of the field over others.

This isn't a bad thing about Alex. But, it isn't a great thing either. Had already predicted Bowes numbers will drop this year due to the style of play of his QB. It is okay to accept rthat QBs have specific styles and that a QB cannot or will not do everything and has comfort areas.

Am I going to be the first one to point out that Smith threw to Bowe on a 3rd down slant pattern to try to sustain a 4th quarter drive against the Texans that was definitely catchable - Bowe was "NFL open" - yet the pass was dropped?

Smith trusts Bowe when the defensive read is to go to Bowe. Why all the broo-ha-ha?

Traditionally with Reid offenses, guys with speed, are what Reid looks for. The only exception was T.O but T.O was faster than Bowe.
However this is a first year offense for Smith. Fasano who is a dependable Receiver is doing well, you could tell they have good chemistry. Even tho he was hurt most of the time.
But look at another stat. Smiths Rushing yards have increased dramatically. Does it hint that maybee his Recievers are not trust worthy,at a time of panic.

Simply put , just watch a CHIEFS game.You will see that his performance isn't that poor. the majority of his incompletions come from dropped catches. Charles isn't that much of a stud on the inside run game like Gore.

Smith runs because his receivers are not trustworthy? That won't stick on the wall. All let every full season Bowe has had, he has produced. Smith has a history of playing safe. Wonder which will stick more, history or the assumption.

Everyone keeps saying Smith doesn't throw it to Bowe because he isn't dependable. I would lean more to that Smith doesn't throw certain balls because they are not high percentage plays. The WRs are usually the lower percentage play if we are talking about anything over 7 yards. A lot of subjective reasons as to why Smith isn't doing something but none of those reasons take into account his historical stats or style of play. At the same time, Bowes past stats and play are thrown out the window.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Smith runs because his receivers are not trustworthy? That won't stick on the wall. All let every full season Bowe has had, he has produced. Smith has a history of playing safe. Wonder which will stick more, history or the assumption.

Everyone keeps saying Smith doesn't throw it to Bowe because he isn't dependable. I would lean more to that Smith doesn't throw certain balls because they are not high percentage plays. The WRs are usually the lower percentage play if we are talking about anything over 7 yards. A lot of subjective reasons as to why Smith isn't doing something but none of those reasons take into account his historical stats or style of play. At the same time, Bowes past stats and play are thrown out the window.

Joe, I'm just not sure why anyone should care about this stuff. However KC is getting it done, they are getting it done. Bowe is getting targeted about 6 times per game. Avery gets a little over 5 targets per game.. Jamaal Charles has been targeted about 8 times per game. The targets to TEs should go up now that Fasano is back.

KC spreads the ball around... and love to utilize Charles in both the pass and run. That's the way Reid wants it. It works...they are winning. Bowe has shown no displeasure, since he has his fat contract anyway.

What, again, is your deal?

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Smith runs because his receivers are not trustworthy? That won't stick on the wall. All let every full season Bowe has had, he has produced. Smith has a history of playing safe. Wonder which will stick more, history or the assumption.

Everyone keeps saying Smith doesn't throw it to Bowe because he isn't dependable. I would lean more to that Smith doesn't throw certain balls because they are not high percentage plays. The WRs are usually the lower percentage play if we are talking about anything over 7 yards. A lot of subjective reasons as to why Smith isn't doing something but none of those reasons take into account his historical stats or style of play. At the same time, Bowes past stats and play are thrown out the window.

Joe, I'm just not sure why anyone should care about this stuff. However KC is getting it done, they are getting it done. Bowe is getting targeted about 6 times per game. Avery gets a little over 5 targets per game.. Jamaal Charles has been targeted about 8 times per game. The targets to TEs should go up now that Fasano is back.

KC spreads the ball around... and love to utilize Charles in both the pass and run. That's the way Reid wants it. It works...they are winning. Bowe has shown no displeasure, since he has his fat contract anyway.

What, again, is your deal?

My initial post about Bowe was due to comments that Bowe is not dependable or he's lazy and that's why Alex isn't targeting him more than a running back or nearly the same as the #2. My point is that it is not Bowes inability bu Alex Smiths style.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Empire49:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by hofer36:

Originally posted by csjwilkinson:
The better the Chiefs do the better. That's a gramatical nightmare but you catch my drift.

Anything that helps us is good. The Chiefs suck and I'm waiting for the bubble to burst but lets get the required number of wins out of them first. That was my thinking early in the season.

if you think the chiefs suck, well, maybe you should take up a new hobby

Chiefs are very similar to 2011 Niners and that team went 13-3 and should have won the Super Bowl. Now at 7-0 they are very good but I don't think they can beat us even at 5-2

Wouldn't want to play them in KC.

The only decent team KC has played is Dallas, and that team is far from good. I'm glad KC is winning, but it's meaningless unless they can beat a quality opponent. Granted, they have not faced a quality opponent yet, so it isn't their fault of course.

I could say the same about Denver or the 9ers.

The difference is the Broncos and 9ers basically blow mediocre teams out (like they should). The Chiefs squeak by mediocre teams, a sure sign of a pretender, IMO.