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How many games will the Chiefs win PYMWYMI

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How many games will the Chiefs win PYMWYMI

Originally posted by Souz123:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
An excellent throw by any account! Threw it where neither defender could get a hand on it. There were a couple of those in this game and they happened when the team needed them. Would be nice if all could appreciate the talents a QB has rather than harping on his "limitations."

his only limitation at QB is perception by the public. Which has grown to be enamoured with black quarterbacks at the expense of white quarterbacks who are less than extraordinary. This is not to go to the other extreme and say that the likes of Russell Wilson and Kaepernick are bad, but Vick, "RG3" and Josh Freeman are s**tty. Does anyone remember the Nate Davis craze? lololol

You really going that route, bruh?!?!?!?!?!?!?

- 98
Originally posted by kidash98:
You really going that route, bruh?!?!?!?!?!?!?

- 98

Sorry but a lot of black QBs are now getting a lot more credit than they are due. It was the opposite 20, even 10 years ago.. but any1 who thinks black QBs now are discriminated against is just crazy. They are more so discriminated for as being "DYNAMIC" .. Kaep and Wilson are definitely Dynamic QBs, but hey, so is Luck
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Same old crap from Cosell. He evidently missed the passes threaded between defenders last week...and he always seems to miss those doesn't he? So sad that he has to recycle this nonsense. Safe? Yes, Smith plays it safe. But when he needs a third and long? Either runs for a first down or completes an excellent pass for a first down. Why folks still listen to Cosell is...easy to understand...it agrees with their misconceptions.

Cosell does make some valid criticisms. I didn't find anything inaccurate in his analysis, other than he can't win more than 9 or 10 games. Alex proved he can win more than that.

Cosell and Jaworski in particular put a huge emphasis on arm strength and throwing downfield. They don't appreciate Alex's skill set even if it produces wins. I think Alex is a good QB, but at the same time I'm not going to pretend he doesn't have limitations. Alex does a great job playing to his strengths. I think he has great anticipation for the short routes, makes quick decisions, and has confidence throwing into tight windows in that area.

I have to question your assessment of Alex on 3rd and longs: "But when he needs a third and long? Either runs for a first down or completes an excellent pass for a first down." I don't think that's true. He rarely challenges the defense in those situations, instead choosing to check down and accept punting on 4th down. That was a constant criticism during his entire career in SF.

What he does do extremely well is throw on 1st and 10, creating great down and distance situations to run, use play-action, or continue to dink and dunk methodically up field.

Cosell says early in the piece that Smith will not throw into coverage and yet there were two very good completions last game with defenders bracketing the receiver. According to Cosell Smith won't make those throws...so who was wearing #11 for KC last week? That was an error in his article and he perpetuates this myth with every comment on Smith.

Smith doesn't take unnecessary risks and so he is less likely to throw into coverage but that's a style, not an inability. My assessment of Smith's 3rd and longs--he did both things in the last game. I'm not saying he always does this...no QB does. So you can question my memory if you like but go watch his games from this year and you will see him do this. Very important plays and he kept the chains moving.

What's with the tendency of posters to take a straight comment on a few plays and call it bull because it isn't the case 100% of the time? Good grief, are we so addled that we can regard comments in any other way than general truisms?

As you can tell, I have little respect for Cosell's opinion when it comes to Smith...your point that he likes a downfield QB says it all...he's prejudiced.

I listen to Greg Cossell all the time and can say that he definitely has a love for strong armed QBs and a dislike of Alex Smith's "style". He's actually backed off of some of his harsher criticisms of AS. He does make some valid points about AS though.

An example of his love of strong armed QBs is his pre-draft evaluation of Jamarcus Russell. He love how Russell could just flick the ball 50 yards down the field while on the move. He thought that Russell should definitely be the first pick in the draft that year.
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Same old crap from Cosell. He evidently missed the passes threaded between defenders last week...and he always seems to miss those doesn't he? So sad that he has to recycle this nonsense. Safe? Yes, Smith plays it safe. But when he needs a third and long? Either runs for a first down or completes an excellent pass for a first down. Why folks still listen to Cosell is...easy to understand...it agrees with their misconceptions.

Cosell does make some valid criticisms. I didn't find anything inaccurate in his analysis, other than he can't win more than 9 or 10 games. Alex proved he can win more than that.

Cosell and Jaworski in particular put a huge emphasis on arm strength and throwing downfield. They don't appreciate Alex's skill set even if it produces wins. I think Alex is a good QB, but at the same time I'm not going to pretend he doesn't have limitations. Alex does a great job playing to his strengths. I think he has great anticipation for the short routes, makes quick decisions, and has confidence throwing into tight windows in that area.

I have to question your assessment of Alex on 3rd and longs: "But when he needs a third and long? Either runs for a first down or completes an excellent pass for a first down." I don't think that's true. He rarely challenges the defense in those situations, instead choosing to check down and accept punting on 4th down. That was a constant criticism during his entire career in SF.

What he does do extremely well is throw on 1st and 10, creating great down and distance situations to run, use play-action, or continue to dink and dunk methodically up field.

Cosell says early in the piece that Smith will not throw into coverage and yet there were two very good completions last game with defenders bracketing the receiver. According to Cosell Smith won't make those throws...so who was wearing #11 for KC last week? That was an error in his article and he perpetuates this myth with every comment on Smith.

Smith doesn't take unnecessary risks and so he is less likely to throw into coverage but that's a style, not an inability. My assessment of Smith's 3rd and longs--he did both things in the last game. I'm not saying he always does this...no QB does. So you can question my memory if you like but go watch his games from this year and you will see him do this. Very important plays and he kept the chains moving.

What's with the tendency of posters to take a straight comment on a few plays and call it bull because it isn't the case 100% of the time? Good grief, are we so addled that we can regard comments in any other way than general truisms?

As you can tell, I have little respect for Cosell's opinion when it comes to Smith...your point that he likes a downfield QB says it all...he's prejudiced.

I listen to Greg Cossell all the time and can say that he definitely has a love for strong armed QBs and a dislike of Alex Smith's "style". He's actually backed off of some of his harsher criticisms of AS. He does make some valid points about AS though.

An example of his love of strong armed QBs is his pre-draft evaluation of Jamarcus Russell. He love how Russell could just flick the ball 50 yards down the field while on the move. He thought that Russell should definitely be the first pick in the draft that year.

you know AT, I think ummm, whats his name, Marshall Faulk said it after Smith was interviewed on the set of Thursday night football. " Many don't like the way Smith plays because we are so enamored with the high octane scoring offenses, but at the end of the day, the guys wins games."

And I have to say credit to you for actually saying u listen to Cossell. He has never been a big fan of Smith, but it was hilarious when he said some negative things about kaep, and Oh Lord, you would of thought someone was gonna get killed. Now he's crap, he doesn't know what he's talking about, crappy articles.... was just too funny.
@Souz123

There are so many arguments one could counter with to destroy your little theory, but what would be the point? You've convinced yourself.
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by vaden:
Cosell is infatuated with arm strength and deep passes, which totally goes against Bill Walsh's philosophy and the Niner QB Legacy. So of course he wouldn't like Alex. He sounds super objective and intelligent but if you actually examine his own work you'll find lots of flaws, as I and many others here have with his often ridiculous criticisms of Alex.

Cosell voiced his opinion on smith early on, like many, and as smith started to produce more, it was hard for him to retract his earlier views (no one likes to deal with the fact that they were wrong)

Cosell is right a lot more often than he is wrong. His problem with Alex Smith is not related to arm strength. He explained it very clearly in his last interview on KNBR. He said that while watching the film of the Chiefs-Eagles game, his opinion was that Smith simply didn't want to make certain throws that Cosell thought he should have tried. He thinks Smith is too careful. It's not arm strength, it's the mental approach to the game. Cosell also pretty much ridiculed Niner fans who believe Harbaugh made a mistake changing to Kaepernick. He said there is not one NFL executive or coach who, if given the choice, would pick Smith over Kaepernick to build an offense - that's his opinion. He also said he thinks Kaepernick shows the classic signs of being short on experience. He thinks Kaepernick needs more time to develop a more patient way of going through reads like the more experienced QB's do and he thinks Kaepernick needs to learn to read defense alignments better. He said that Smith does certain things better, but he thought that was because he had many more years of experience.
  • Axl49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,402
Originally posted by 9erempire:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Just last year, the Colts were 2-3 when the opponent scored 24 or more. You will probably find teams with better QBs with a much better than a 2-27 record when this happens. Alex is not that QB. He depends on too many things happening to get the win. He won't lose it for you but if the opponent scores 24 or more, he won't help you win it.

Not many QB's are coming back down from 24. I still like to see the stat on that. People like to act being down 24 happens every game but it doesn't. If a QB plays in that many games where his team is down 24, that means the team sucks entirely.

Alex had two huge comeback wins our NFC division game and a very good Lions team at Det that year. Shows poise and he can come back and win you games when you down. Kap is young but I dont see kap doing that or done that. Gore was responsible for our Title game win and he also had a huge part in the SB and failed to win it.
Originally posted by Axl49:
Alex had two huge comeback wins our NFC division game and a very good Lions team at Det that year. Shows poise and he can come back and win you games when you down. Kap is young but I dont see kap doing that or done that. Gore was responsible for our Title game win and he also had a huge part in the SB and failed to win it.

Kaepernick pulled off a pretty awesome comeback in the NFC title game last year against the Falcons. And, he came up three yards and a couple of horrible calls short of the biggest comeback in Super Bowl history. They've both shown that they can come back.
The f*ck does Kaep have anything to do with the freaking Chiefs?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Or A.Smith with the 49ers, for that matter?

- 98
Originally posted by Axl49:
Originally posted by 9erempire:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Just last year, the Colts were 2-3 when the opponent scored 24 or more. You will probably find teams with better QBs with a much better than a 2-27 record when this happens. Alex is not that QB. He depends on too many things happening to get the win. He won't lose it for you but if the opponent scores 24 or more, he won't help you win it.

Not many QB's are coming back down from 24. I still like to see the stat on that. People like to act being down 24 happens every game but it doesn't. If a QB plays in that many games where his team is down 24, that means the team sucks entirely.

Alex had two huge comeback wins our NFC division game and a very good Lions team at Det that year. Shows poise and he can come back and win you games when you down. Kap is young but I dont see kap doing that or done that. Gore was responsible for our Title game win and he also had a huge part in the SB and failed to win it.

Also in the Eagles game when the kicker missed multiple field goals.

I really don't care to argue much over these points anymore. Right now, I'm a lot more worried about our team.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
"Alex smith is 2-27 against teams that score more than 24 points"

I would like to see two things.

1. On that statistic, how many of those losses were after 2010.

2. I'd like to see the stats for all the other quarterbacks in the NFL. It's meaningless to me in a vacuum.

Just last year, the Colts were 2-3 when the opponent scored 24 or more. You will probably find teams with better QBs with a much better than a 2-27 record when this happens. Alex is not that QB. He depends on too many things happening to get the win. He won't lose it for you but if the opponent scores 24 or more, he won't help you win it.

I get where you are coming from...but you've selected 1 QB to compare. I'd like to see all of them.
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/9/25/4767278/how-good-is-the-chiefs-offense

Interesting post / fan written article.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/9/25/4767278/how-good-is-the-chiefs-offense

Interesting post / fan written article.

Didn't read lol

They could be better. They could be very good at the end of the year without too many injuries. I think their offense is better than the 2011 Niners offense at this time of the year.

Btw, Andy Reid knows the Giants. And despite having a 0-3 record, the Giants are pretty much against the wall, which makes them very hungry and dangerous. The Chiefs should win this game, but it's going to be a tough one I think.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Sep 26, 2013 at 1:53 PM ]
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/9/25/4767278/how-good-is-the-chiefs-offense

Interesting post / fan written article.

Didn't read lol

They could be better. They could be very good at the end of the year without too many injuries. I think their offense is better than the 2011 Niners offense at this time of the year.

Btw, Andy Reid knows the Giants. And despite having a 0-3 record, the Giants are pretty much against the wall, which makes them very hungry and dangerous. The Chiefs should win this game, but it's going to be a tough one I think.

I read the article. Then read the comments calling out the article for being misleading and attempting to actually skew the facts. Commenter did a good job, pointing out the numbers that the article-writer did not account for, and mentioned that real analysts -- Football Outsiders did include those particular numbers and with those in consideration actually ranks the Chiefs offense in the top half of the league.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by vaden:
Cosell is infatuated with arm strength and deep passes, which totally goes against Bill Walsh's philosophy and the Niner QB Legacy. So of course he wouldn't like Alex. He sounds super objective and intelligent but if you actually examine his own work you'll find lots of flaws, as I and many others here have with his often ridiculous criticisms of Alex.

Cosell voiced his opinion on smith early on, like many, and as smith started to produce more, it was hard for him to retract his earlier views (no one likes to deal with the fact that they were wrong)

Cosell is right a lot more often than he is wrong. His problem with Alex Smith is not related to arm strength. He explained it very clearly in his last interview on KNBR. He said that while watching the film of the Chiefs-Eagles game, his opinion was that Smith simply didn't want to make certain throws that Cosell thought he should have tried. He thinks Smith is too careful. It's not arm strength, it's the mental approach to the game. Cosell also pretty much ridiculed Niner fans who believe Harbaugh made a mistake changing to Kaepernick. He said there is not one NFL executive or coach who, if given the choice, would pick Smith over Kaepernick to build an offense - that's his opinion. He also said he thinks Kaepernick shows the classic signs of being short on experience. He thinks Kaepernick needs more time to develop a more patient way of going through reads like the more experienced QB's do and he thinks Kaepernick needs to learn to read defense alignments better. He said that Smith does certain things better, but he thought that was because he had many more years of experience.

his opinion. i trust smith's opinion more. did cosell ever play the game? has any team ever approached him for a hire to utilize his analytical skills?
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