How many games will the Chiefs win PYMWYMI

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:
You mean that one incompletion? He probably also sees the MANY open looks Smith does not throw. There's a reason why Smith is usually one of the most sacked QB's in the league. Most of what he says is correct, it is not easy to win like that but he is playing to the strength of his defense. If they want to truly contend, Alex will need to get that offense at a higher octane level. He has shown it once or twice that he could do this, but in an 8 year career, one or two times is not enough to justify he is that QB.

Why hold onto so many few plays you have seen him make and not question the amount of plays missed due to all the sacks? I understand, it is fair to refute that Alex not making some plays also helps him help the team to not lose games. That is fine but that argument is only used by a couple. Quite a few keep pointing at his few and far between "nice" plays.

He is what he is and that is a coach/qb on the field that will not put the team in difficult situations. However, KC also has a top notch defense which always helps smart QB's get the wins. What I do know is that he rarely wins a game when the opponent scores over 24 or 26, was it. That should tell you something.

You have always seen Smith's receivers as wide open...just odd. Not sure how you interpret open but it is very different than my interpretation so perhaps we should leave it there...agree to disagree.

i would have thought the seattle game this year may have changed that view but s far have recieved no confirmation of this...

Originally posted by vaden:
Cosell is infatuated with arm strength and deep passes, which totally goes against Bill Walsh's philosophy and the Niner QB Legacy. So of course he wouldn't like Alex. He sounds super objective and intelligent but if you actually examine his own work you'll find lots of flaws, as I and many others here have with his often ridiculous criticisms of Alex.

Cosell voiced his opinion on smith early on, like many, and as smith started to produce more, it was hard for him to retract his earlier views (no one likes to deal with the fact that they were wrong)

Greg Cosell is a douche

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Same old crap from Cosell. He evidently missed the passes threaded between defenders last week...and he always seems to miss those doesn't he? So sad that he has to recycle this nonsense. Safe? Yes, Smith plays it safe. But when he needs a third and long? Either runs for a first down or completes an excellent pass for a first down. Why folks still listen to Cosell is...easy to understand...it agrees with their misconceptions.

Cosell does make some valid criticisms. I didn't find anything inaccurate in his analysis, other than he can't win more than 9 or 10 games. Alex proved he can win more than that.

Cosell and Jaworski in particular put a huge emphasis on arm strength and throwing downfield. They don't appreciate Alex's skill set even if it produces wins. I think Alex is a good QB, but at the same time I'm not going to pretend he doesn't have limitations. Alex does a great job playing to his strengths. I think he has great anticipation for the short routes, makes quick decisions, and has confidence throwing into tight windows in that area.

I have to question your assessment of Alex on 3rd and longs: "But when he needs a third and long? Either runs for a first down or completes an excellent pass for a first down." I don't think that's true. He rarely challenges the defense in those situations, instead choosing to check down and accept punting on 4th down. That was a constant criticism during his entire career in SF.

What he does do extremely well is throw on 1st and 10, creating great down and distance situations to run, use play-action, or continue to dink and dunk methodically up field.

Harbaugh chose a QB that could "drive the ball" down the field as opposed to working the short zones to move the ball. OK. That's fine but when you don't have downfield receivers open, what do you do?

I watched the Chicago/Pittsburgh game tonight. Jay Cutler, with one of the strongest arms in football, came out with a dink and dunk approach and dominated the play the first half. He never challenged anyone deep the entire first half. Marc Trestman is a former 49er assistant who learned the Walsh offense while here. He is now using it with Cannon Arm Cutler to good advantage. Cutler always seems to have an immediate option in the short zones as soon as he gets the ball. For a guy who has been pounded over the past three years because his coach mainly wanted him to "drive the ball" down the field, Cutler is happier and healthier than he has been in years.

Jim Harbaugh? Are you listening?

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Cosell does make some valid criticisms. I didn't find anything inaccurate in his analysis, other than he can't win more than 9 or 10 games. Alex proved he can win more than that.

Cosell and Jaworski in particular put a huge emphasis on arm strength and throwing downfield. They don't appreciate Alex's skill set even if it produces wins. I think Alex is a good QB, but at the same time I'm not going to pretend he doesn't have limitations. Alex does a great job playing to his strengths. I think he has great anticipation for the short routes, makes quick decisions, and has confidence throwing into tight windows in that area.

I have to question your assessment of Alex on 3rd and longs: "But when he needs a third and long? Either runs for a first down or completes an excellent pass for a first down." I don't think that's true. He rarely challenges the defense in those situations, instead choosing to check down and accept punting on 4th down. That was a constant criticism during his entire career in SF.

What he does do extremely well is throw on 1st and 10, creating great down and distance situations to run, use play-action, or continue to dink and dunk methodically up field.

Great assessment SofaKing. This is the fairest assessment of Alex. And the type of stuff I have been saying for a few years now.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

"Alex smith is 2-27 against teams that score more than 24 points"

I would like to see two things.

1. On that statistic, how many of those losses were after 2010.

2. I'd like to see the stats for all the other quarterbacks in the NFL. It's meaningless to me in a vacuum.

Just last year, the Colts were 2-3 when the opponent scored 24 or more. You will probably find teams with better QBs with a much better than a 2-27 record when this happens. Alex is not that QB. He depends on too many things happening to get the win. He won't lose it for you but if the opponent scores 24 or more, he won't help you win it.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Just last year, the Colts were 2-3 when the opponent scored 24 or more. You will probably find teams with better QBs with a much better than a 2-27 record when this happens. Alex is not that QB. He depends on too many things happening to get the win. He won't lose it for you but if the opponent scores 24 or more, he won't help you win it.

Not many QB's are coming back down from 24. I still like to see the stat on that. People like to act being down 24 happens every game but it doesn't. If a QB plays in that many games where his team is down 24, that means the team sucks entirely.

Originally posted by 9erempire:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Just last year, the Colts were 2-3 when the opponent scored 24 or more. You will probably find teams with better QBs with a much better than a 2-27 record when this happens. Alex is not that QB. He depends on too many things happening to get the win. He won't lose it for you but if the opponent scores 24 or more, he won't help you win it.

Not many QB's are coming back down from 24. I still like to see the stat on that. People like to act being down 24 happens every game but it doesn't. If a QB plays in that many games where his team is down 24, that means the team sucks entirely.

Luck already has 2 under his belt. Kap has at least 3. Not too many QBs will only win 2-27 if the opponent scores more than or equal 24. Just admit, Alex has some weak areas. It seems as if there is an excuse for anything brought up making it appear as if Alex can do everything if he wanted to.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Just last year, the Colts were 2-3 when the opponent scored 24 or more. You will probably find teams with better QBs with a much better than a 2-27 record when this happens. Alex is not that QB. He depends on too many things happening to get the win. He won't lose it for you but if the opponent scores 24 or more, he won't help you win it.

Hofer just listed four games off the top of his head that disprove this...but whatever...

Originally posted by dj43:
Harbaugh chose a QB that could "drive the ball" down the field as opposed to working the short zones to move the ball. OK. That's fine but when you don't have downfield receivers open, what do you do?

I watched the Chicago/Pittsburgh game tonight. Jay Cutler, with one of the strongest arms in football, came out with a dink and dunk approach and dominated the play the first half. He never challenged anyone deep the entire first half. Marc Trestman is a former 49er assistant who learned the Walsh offense while here. He is now using it with Cannon Arm Cutler to good advantage. Cutler always seems to have an immediate option in the short zones as soon as he gets the ball. For a guy who has been pounded over the past three years because his coach mainly wanted him to "drive the ball" down the field, Cutler is happier and healthier than he has been in years.

Jim Harbaugh? Are you listening?

My greatest regret with Harbaugh...he is not a pure WCO guy. There needs to be a viable short option on every play! KC's receivers looked so darn good last week because they were working in unison, helping get open. It shouldn't be just a one on one battle because the 9ers don't have Green and Megatron. Right now Defenses don't have to worry about anyone except VD (who was out) and Boldin (doubled). If they ran more brushes and picks (legal ones) they would have greater success.

I was thinking this is not just WR coaching but system or scheme. Just a super simple passing game approach as opposed to the more complex running game. Is Roman one dimensional?

Originally posted by Joecool:
Luck already has 2 under his belt. Kap has at least 3. Not too many QBs will only win 2-27 if the opponent scores more than or equal 24. Just admit, Alex has some weak areas. It seems as if there is an excuse for anything brought up making it appear as if Alex can do everything if he wanted to.

Think about it for a second. Not many teams are going to win being 24 points down plain and simple. Just because Luck and Kap did it, it doesn't mean it's a constant. Doesn't mean they are going to keep doing that. Let's not forget Kap took over a loaded team.

Also, what was that stat about Alex having the most 4th quarter comebacks? I believe he has the most 4th quarter comebacks in X year span. I'm not sure the exact years. He's very capable.

at the West Coast Offense sound bite.

Originally posted by 9erempire:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Luck already has 2 under his belt. Kap has at least 3. Not too many QBs will only win 2-27 if the opponent scores more than or equal 24. Just admit, Alex has some weak areas. It seems as if there is an excuse for anything brought up making it appear as if Alex can do everything if he wanted to.

Think about it for a second. Not many teams are going to win being 24 points down plain and simple. Just because Luck and Kap did it, it doesn't mean it's a constant. Doesn't mean they are going to keep doing that. Let's not forget Kap took over a loaded team.

Also, what was that stat about Alex having the most 4th quarter comebacks? I believe he has the most 4th quarter comebacks in X year span. I'm not sure the exact years. He's very capable.

What does comebacks have to do with the point I am trying to make. My point is that Alex heavily depends on his defense keeping the opponent under 24 more than other top QB's. Without checking the stats, I would dare say a team that scores 20 vs Alex's defense as a VERY high chance of winning. Alex on any team with an average defense is not a winning QB. He must have a top ranked defense to get those wins to be your "QB that knows how to win". He is a master if he knows the opponent won't score more than, let's even lower it down to 17 points. But he is not the guy who can win on a team that allows around 17-24 points.

I just showed you two VERY young but good QB's already have more wins than Alex when the opponent scores 24 and your reply was "that's only 2". Really? These are inexperienced QB's that are being compared to an 8 year veteran. You can go ahead and take a look a the top 10 QB's in the league and it will be very easy to determine they can overcome a bad defense and win shootouts on a consistent basis.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
An excellent throw by any account! Threw it where neither defender could get a hand on it. There were a couple of those in this game and they happened when the team needed them. Would be nice if all could appreciate the talents a QB has rather than harping on his "limitations."

his only limitation at QB is perception by the public. Which has grown to be enamoured with black quarterbacks at the expense of white quarterbacks who are less than extraordinary. This is not to go to the other extreme and say that the likes of Russell Wilson and Kaepernick are bad, but Vick, "RG3" and Josh Freeman are s**tty. Does anyone remember the Nate Davis craze? lololol

What happens if Kaep goes 1-3 tonight?

Originally posted by Forkenick:
What happens if Kaep goes 1-3 tonight?

the NAACP will sue the NFL