Donte Whitner aka Hitner

Originally posted by NCommand:
Sorry, just getting back to this. I'll take 98%. Haha!

Personally, I would not have kept Whitner THIS year...I come from the Bill Walsh school where you let guys go a year or two before their twilight (but always have the "next man up" training in the background). Whitner was a salient issue last year - he gave up the points; he was the "break" in the bend-but-don't-break defense. And while we highlighted that it wasnt his fault completely, he owns much of it. For instance, if you continually get beat in the EZ (inside the RZ) on simple seam routes, you MAY want to practice that or talk to Fangio about assignments (he is a leader); like, maybe move a taller and more physical Goldson over the TE or taller/stronger slot WR (Jones/Boldin). I'm not seeing an old dog learning new tricks here either (still 2 ro 3 steps late on coverage in the middle of the field/EZ). I probably would have seriously considered, like Baalke, a veteran like Reed where you'd have better coverage skills and still have that veteran leadership. I would NOT have gone 2 rookies back there. I could see for over 2 years now that coverage with Whitner is a major issue (with or without Reid next to him).

So that answer alone answers your original question...he'd be gone after this year (large salary too). I'm no sure what Baalke has in store here but usually he has a guy training in the wings as well but right now, I don't think that guy is on the team. It may end up being a FA pickup or a high draft pick to get younger/cheaper.

I never was a fan of that particular Walsh philosophy. Jerry Rice would've played 4-5 Pro bowl caliber seasons for ANOTHER TEAM had we continued that. Much as I loved Walsh, he wasn't as flawless as the nostalgics have made him out to be - but that's another debate.

As for Whitner/Safties, well being a strong safety obviously means you're on the strong(TE) side - which is kind of the reason that 2% need for a SS still exists. You need someone bigger than a corner and faster than a LB to cover the Grahams & Gates & Gronks (oh my!). I think the wipe out of the SS will be complete when these teams abandon the TE in favor of the 3wides and go full Aaron Rodgers.

I've always felt Whitner was a huge liability in coverage and I cringe anytime it seems like he might end up in a one on one coverage situation. However, his locker room and team presence is immeasurable. His in-game IQ - forcing the GB WR to land out of bounds and forcing another WR to land IN-bounds (I think that was the same game) are just a few examples. Not to mention what he has meant to young Eric Reid. Right now we have to settle for him getting beat by Graham and just hope he knocks the s**t out of him to cause an incompletion or fumble.

Still, I'm torn about next season. I'm not sure I like the thought of pairing a 2nd year safety (Reid) next to a possible rookie.

Originally posted by trellblaze:
I never was a fan of that particular Walsh philosophy. Jerry Rice would've played 4-5 Pro bowl caliber seasons for ANOTHER TEAM had we continued that. Much as I loved Walsh, he wasn't as flawless as the nostalgics have made him out to be - but that's another debate.

As for Whitner/Safties, well being a strong safety obviously means you're on the strong(TE) side - which is kind of the reason that 2% need for a SS still exists. You need someone bigger than a corner and faster than a LB to cover the Grahams & Gates & Gronks (oh my!). I think the wipe out of the SS will be complete when these teams abandon the TE in favor of the 3wides and go full Aaron Rodgers.

I've always felt Whitner was a huge liability in coverage and I cringe anytime it seems like he might end up in a one on one coverage situation. However, his locker room and team presence is immeasurable. His in-game IQ - forcing the GB WR to land out of bounds and forcing another WR to land IN-bounds (I think that was the same game) are just a few examples. Not to mention what he has meant to young Eric Reid. Right now we have to settle for him getting beat by Graham and just hope he knocks the s**t out of him to cause an incompletion or fumble.

Still, I'm torn about next season. I'm not sure I like the thought of pairing a 2nd year safety (Reid) next to a possible rookie.

Yeah, I'm with you re: HOF players...Rice, Haley, Montana, Lott, etc and you're right, that's whole other topic. But I understand the premise here also (sure you do as well).

Agreed, but our S's are interchangeably in the 3-4 and therefore, there should be no issue with Whitner and Reid switching once inside the RZ. Besides, isn't the point of the 3-4 to "disguise" coverages and where the pressure is coming from? Hmmm. Haha.

I totally agree Hitner adds so much value to us in other areas though especially for Reid right now. That is invaluable experience. Hopefully, they continue to communicate and grow together back there and Fangio can scheme different coverages in the RZ to help cover up this weakness. It's long overdue. We'll see what Baalke does next year but do you have any suggestions/recommendations? I'm with you...would rather NOT have a rookie S next to Reid but then again, if he's like Reid? Hmmmm.

Originally posted by NinerG94:
With the amount of salary cap dedicated to this defense already, we're LUCKY we have a SS as good as Whitner. The majority of teams in this league don't have a good safety on the roster let alone 2 like we've had over the past few years. I swear this fan base is impossible and spoiled to the max. No wonder everyone calls us whiners.

1000% concur.

Its like a bunch of Japanese kids who've never, and could never, play football but get straight A's who think they know football or the talent of.....

wait for it......

A PRO BOWL STRONG SAFETY

DONTE HITNER

When he gets burned it is almost always in an area just outside of where he's supposed to be, or because of great offensive play calling, or because somebody else isn't where they are supposed to be.

HE IS NOT A FREE SAFETY

Jesus.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by trellblaze:
I never was a fan of that particular Walsh philosophy. Jerry Rice would've played 4-5 Pro bowl caliber seasons for ANOTHER TEAM had we continued that. Much as I loved Walsh, he wasn't as flawless as the nostalgics have made him out to be - but that's another debate.

As for Whitner/Safties, well being a strong safety obviously means you're on the strong(TE) side - which is kind of the reason that 2% need for a SS still exists. You need someone bigger than a corner and faster than a LB to cover the Grahams & Gates & Gronks (oh my!). I think the wipe out of the SS will be complete when these teams abandon the TE in favor of the 3wides and go full Aaron Rodgers.

I've always felt Whitner was a huge liability in coverage and I cringe anytime it seems like he might end up in a one on one coverage situation. However, his locker room and team presence is immeasurable. His in-game IQ - forcing the GB WR to land out of bounds and forcing another WR to land IN-bounds (I think that was the same game) are just a few examples. Not to mention what he has meant to young Eric Reid. Right now we have to settle for him getting beat by Graham and just hope he knocks the s**t out of him to cause an incompletion or fumble.

Still, I'm torn about next season. I'm not sure I like the thought of pairing a 2nd year safety (Reid) next to a possible rookie.

Yeah, I'm with you re: HOF players...Rice, Haley, Montana, Lott, etc and you're right, that's whole other topic. But I understand the premise here also (sure you do as well).

Agreed, but our S's are interchangeably in the 3-4 and therefore, there should be no issue with Whitner and Reid switching once inside the RZ. Besides, isn't the point of the 3-4 to "disguise" coverages and where the pressure is coming from? Hmmm. Haha.

I totally agree Hitner adds so much value to us in other areas though especially for Reid right now. That is invaluable experience. Hopefully, they continue to communicate and grow together back there and Fangio can scheme different coverages in the RZ to help cover up this weakness. It's long overdue. We'll see what Baalke does next year but do you have any suggestions/recommendations? I'm with you...would rather NOT have a rookie S next to Reid but then again, if he's like Reid? Hmmmm.

My dream scenario short term is that Whitner signs a dirt cheap contract to stay with us 1 more season. This won't happen but i feel that, given our roster vs salary cap circumstances, he is the best option we could have NEXT SEASON at the position.

Realistically, I say we use the stockpile of draft pics we have (and are still getting) to trade as high up as possible and pick the best DB (be it S or CB) available. No matter how you slice it, DB is going to be our biggest concern next season. If the DB we draft is not a S or has no shot at moving to the the S position, bring in the best available vet and hope for the best. Use the remaining picks to get even more DBs and perhaps an OL and WR. This is all assuming that we intend to re-sign Iupati. If he goes, this dramatically effects our draft strategy.

I have no problem with Whitner coming back but we simply can't afford him next season. The EZ problems can be adjusted for in many ways, some of which you've already suggested. You could also simply remove Whitner from the goal line defensive package.

After his miss hit and tackle against fitzgerald he can change his name again but to whiffner this time !

Originally posted by trellblaze:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by trellblaze:
I never was a fan of that particular Walsh philosophy. Jerry Rice would've played 4-5 Pro bowl caliber seasons for ANOTHER TEAM had we continued that. Much as I loved Walsh, he wasn't as flawless as the nostalgics have made him out to be - but that's another debate.

As for Whitner/Safties, well being a strong safety obviously means you're on the strong(TE) side - which is kind of the reason that 2% need for a SS still exists. You need someone bigger than a corner and faster than a LB to cover the Grahams & Gates & Gronks (oh my!). I think the wipe out of the SS will be complete when these teams abandon the TE in favor of the 3wides and go full Aaron Rodgers.

I've always felt Whitner was a huge liability in coverage and I cringe anytime it seems like he might end up in a one on one coverage situation. However, his locker room and team presence is immeasurable. His in-game IQ - forcing the GB WR to land out of bounds and forcing another WR to land IN-bounds (I think that was the same game) are just a few examples. Not to mention what he has meant to young Eric Reid. Right now we have to settle for him getting beat by Graham and just hope he knocks the s**t out of him to cause an incompletion or fumble.

Still, I'm torn about next season. I'm not sure I like the thought of pairing a 2nd year safety (Reid) next to a possible rookie.

Yeah, I'm with you re: HOF players...Rice, Haley, Montana, Lott, etc and you're right, that's whole other topic. But I understand the premise here also (sure you do as well).

Agreed, but our S's are interchangeably in the 3-4 and therefore, there should be no issue with Whitner and Reid switching once inside the RZ. Besides, isn't the point of the 3-4 to "disguise" coverages and where the pressure is coming from? Hmmm. Haha.

I totally agree Hitner adds so much value to us in other areas though especially for Reid right now. That is invaluable experience. Hopefully, they continue to communicate and grow together back there and Fangio can scheme different coverages in the RZ to help cover up this weakness. It's long overdue. We'll see what Baalke does next year but do you have any suggestions/recommendations? I'm with you...would rather NOT have a rookie S next to Reid but then again, if he's like Reid? Hmmmm.

My dream scenario short term is that Whitner signs a dirt cheap contract to stay with us 1 more season. This won't happen but i feel that, given our roster vs salary cap circumstances, he is the best option we could have NEXT SEASON at the position.

Realistically, I say we use the stockpile of draft pics we have (and are still getting) to trade as high up as possible and pick the best DB (be it S or CB) available. No matter how you slice it, DB is going to be our biggest concern next season. If the DB we draft is not a S or has no shot at moving to the the S position, bring in the best available vet and hope for the best. Use the remaining picks to get even more DBs and perhaps an OL and WR. This is all assuming that we intend to re-sign Iupati. If he goes, this dramatically effects our draft strategy.

I have no problem with Whitner coming back but we simply can't afford him next season. The EZ problems can be adjusted for in many ways, some of which you've already suggested. You could also simply remove Whitner from the goal line defensive package.

I would not be surprised to see him on the team next year.

He is playing well this year and from what I gather he is an important leader in the locker room.

I do not understand the team finances well enough to think that the finances of keeping can not be worked out.

I was thinking the same thing....Donte Whiffner

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by trellblaze:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by trellblaze:
I never was a fan of that particular Walsh philosophy. Jerry Rice would've played 4-5 Pro bowl caliber seasons for ANOTHER TEAM had we continued that. Much as I loved Walsh, he wasn't as flawless as the nostalgics have made him out to be - but that's another debate.

As for Whitner/Safties, well being a strong safety obviously means you're on the strong(TE) side - which is kind of the reason that 2% need for a SS still exists. You need someone bigger than a corner and faster than a LB to cover the Grahams & Gates & Gronks (oh my!). I think the wipe out of the SS will be complete when these teams abandon the TE in favor of the 3wides and go full Aaron Rodgers.

I've always felt Whitner was a huge liability in coverage and I cringe anytime it seems like he might end up in a one on one coverage situation. However, his locker room and team presence is immeasurable. His in-game IQ - forcing the GB WR to land out of bounds and forcing another WR to land IN-bounds (I think that was the same game) are just a few examples. Not to mention what he has meant to young Eric Reid. Right now we have to settle for him getting beat by Graham and just hope he knocks the s**t out of him to cause an incompletion or fumble.

Still, I'm torn about next season. I'm not sure I like the thought of pairing a 2nd year safety (Reid) next to a possible rookie.

Yeah, I'm with you re: HOF players...Rice, Haley, Montana, Lott, etc and you're right, that's whole other topic. But I understand the premise here also (sure you do as well).

Agreed, but our S's are interchangeably in the 3-4 and therefore, there should be no issue with Whitner and Reid switching once inside the RZ. Besides, isn't the point of the 3-4 to "disguise" coverages and where the pressure is coming from? Hmmm. Haha.

I totally agree Hitner adds so much value to us in other areas though especially for Reid right now. That is invaluable experience. Hopefully, they continue to communicate and grow together back there and Fangio can scheme different coverages in the RZ to help cover up this weakness. It's long overdue. We'll see what Baalke does next year but do you have any suggestions/recommendations? I'm with you...would rather NOT have a rookie S next to Reid but then again, if he's like Reid? Hmmmm.

My dream scenario short term is that Whitner signs a dirt cheap contract to stay with us 1 more season. This won't happen but i feel that, given our roster vs salary cap circumstances, he is the best option we could have NEXT SEASON at the position.

Realistically, I say we use the stockpile of draft pics we have (and are still getting) to trade as high up as possible and pick the best DB (be it S or CB) available. No matter how you slice it, DB is going to be our biggest concern next season. If the DB we draft is not a S or has no shot at moving to the the S position, bring in the best available vet and hope for the best. Use the remaining picks to get even more DBs and perhaps an OL and WR. This is all assuming that we intend to re-sign Iupati. If he goes, this dramatically effects our draft strategy.

I have no problem with Whitner coming back but we simply can't afford him next season. The EZ problems can be adjusted for in many ways, some of which you've already suggested. You could also simply remove Whitner from the goal line defensive package.

I would not be surprised to see him on the team next year.

He is playing well this year and from what I gather he is an important leader in the locker room.

I do not understand the team finances well enough to think that the finances of keeping can not be worked out.

I don't know it intimately, but we're currently ABOUT 950,000 under the cap. That figure will obviously change next season but will it be better or worse? Also we're gonna have to re-sign Iupati among others. Whitner is not likely to be high on the priority list if cap space becomes an issue.

If they can't find a SS who can come in and play as well as Reid right away they still have some young guys in waiting. Will be interesting to watch Baalke next off season. I predict Whitner gives the 9ers a discount or he will be gone. So the defensive backfield may be considerably new next year. How about Culliver, Rogers and either Brown/Brock with Reid, Spillman and Dahl. Then they can fill in with FAs and the Draft. Both Brown and Brock are FAs at the end of the year I believe. Cox, Aso, Ventrone, and Morris may also fight for jobs. The only real emergency may be to replace Whitner if he leaves.

Re-sign Donte Whitner and this dumb-azz thread. At the very least change the title so its doesn't sound so disrespectful. Donte is playing well for the 49ers this year and gets no love from this retardo fan base.

Originally posted by 49erWay:

Originally posted by NinerG94:

With the amount of salary cap dedicated to this defense already, we're LUCKY we have a SS as good as Whitner. The majority of teams in this league don't have a good safety on the roster let alone 2 like we've had over the past few years. I swear this fan base is impossible and spoiled to the max. No wonder everyone calls us whiners.

1000% concur.

Its like a bunch of Japanese kids who've never, and could never, play football but get straight A's who think they know football or the talent of.....

wait for it......

A PRO BOWL STRONG SAFETY

DONTE HITNER

Couldn't agree more. It's embarrassing.

Originally posted by trellblaze:
My dream scenario short term is that Whitner signs a dirt cheap contract to stay with us 1 more season. This won't happen but i feel that, given our roster vs salary cap circumstances, he is the best option we could have NEXT SEASON at the position.

Realistically, I say we use the stockpile of draft pics we have (and are still getting) to trade as high up as possible and pick the best DB (be it S or CB) available. No matter how you slice it, DB is going to be our biggest concern next season. If the DB we draft is not a S or has no shot at moving to the the S position, bring in the best available vet and hope for the best. Use the remaining picks to get even more DBs and perhaps an OL and WR. This is all assuming that we intend to re-sign Iupati. If he goes, this dramatically effects our draft strategy.

I have no problem with Whitner coming back but we simply can't afford him next season. The EZ problems can be adjusted for in many ways, some of which you've already suggested. You could also simply remove Whitner from the goal line defensive package.

Yeah you hit the nail on the head with this one...we ALL know Hitner's weaknesses (no, not going to call him Donte Whiffner after yesterday's game...LOL). But scheme is not suited to his strengths in the RZ in particular. Reid is so dynamic it's covering up some of this (despite giving up almost 300 yards to Palmer yesterday) but let me give you an example of what smart DC's and OC's do re: scheme to maximize their player's strengths and minimize their weaknesses. The Texans have one of the best WR's in the game in Andre Johnson...naturally, they line him up on Brock to start the game. Smart move...but Brock ball's out with 2 INT's and a pass defensed. What do the Texans then do? They move him over to Brown's side and exploit him. Smart move! The Patriots play the Saints and Graham is a nightmare matchup...so they take their best cover CB (taller) in Talib and place him on him ALL game long - results? 0 catches. THIS is smart football. What isn't smart football? On 3rd and 4 playing your CB's off 10-15 yards for simple pitch-and-catch first downs...and eventually, a 75 yard TD. Stupid. Nice to see Fangio adjust some and play more press AFTER the TD but come on, like Whitner in the RZ, how much more evidence do you need?

So to me, we can play with Whitner...he is NOT a bad player by any means. But scheme has to correct to maximize his strengths and honestly, I'm not 100% confident in the vanilla 3-4 Fangio runs right now. So THAT said, we should be looking for taller, more physical CB's to play press and another FS to play (SS) next year who has range and intelligence so it fits our vanilla scheme better esp. in the RZ. I've been b!tching for a real two-gap NT since we passed on Wilfork...twice...and here we are. The Cards ran right down our throats there. The difference in this game was that 89 yard, 9:30+ minute drive and TO's. I have to give Roman credit for learning from the Colts game that we grind it out with Gore/Hunter for the win (no, NOT a cold Dixon off the bench).

Originally posted by NinerG94:
At the very least change the title so its doesn't sound so disrespectful.

Agreed, the title should be change, no doubt. Should just be a general discussion on him...

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerG94:
At the very least change the title so its doesn't sound so disrespectful.

Agreed, the title should be change, no doubt. Should just be a general discussion on him...

The original post happened pre-draft and assumed a replacement would be drafted. His contract is up at the end of the year and we have seen Baalke's method to handle these situations is to sign the guy early at a discount or go into FAcy/draft for a replacement. This may be Whitner's chance for a big payday...wouldn't blame him if he took the money and left.