football players=slaves??

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:
If you agree that they already get paid very well, then you must agree that they need to stop their b***hing and show up to "work".

That makes almost no sense.

Yes, they're paid well.

Yes, they have a right to use their ability to bargain for more money, if possible.

Yes, the owners have a right to lockout the players and use their powers to bargain.

Uh oh! I haven't picked a side and started demonizing! Oh noes!

But no they shouldn't be grateful for their already ridiculously-high wages and stop b***hing about wanting more money?

Irrelevant. I'm sure they're grateful, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to use their ability to make more money. If you had a chance to get a raise, you would, but you aren't a millionaire athlete, so nobody cares. It's not immoral to try to get more money.

If there's more money being made, it either goes to the owners, or the players. Why should the players not try to get more? Because they already make a lot? So do the owners. Should they then just burn the money, because it's excessive?

only athletes have to be grateful for their money. businessmen are allowed to always want more.

He's making me defend a union, and it makes me feel dirty.

come to the dark side, my friend. we live on government handouts and retire on cushy pensions and never, ever work. never.

I can't do it. Next, you'll want me to support disability and hippies.

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:
If you agree that they already get paid very well, then you must agree that they need to stop their b***hing and show up to "work".

That makes almost no sense.

Yes, they're paid well.

Yes, they have a right to use their ability to bargain for more money, if possible.

Yes, the owners have a right to lockout the players and use their powers to bargain.

Uh oh! I haven't picked a side and started demonizing! Oh noes!

But no they shouldn't be grateful for their already ridiculously-high wages and stop b***hing about wanting more money?

Irrelevant. I'm sure they're grateful, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to use their ability to make more money. If you had a chance to get a raise, you would, but you aren't a millionaire athlete, so nobody cares. It's not immoral to try to get more money.

If there's more money being made, it either goes to the owners, or the players. Why should the players not try to get more? Because they already make a lot? So do the owners. Should they then just burn the money, because it's excessive?

only athletes have to be grateful for their money. businessmen are allowed to always want more.

He's making me defend a union, and it makes me feel dirty.

come to the dark side, my friend. we live on government handouts and retire on cushy pensions and never, ever work. never.

I can't do it. Next, you'll want me to support disability and hippies.

There are times when unions are benifitial. However, this is not one of them.

Originally posted by aclarke49:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:
If you agree that they already get paid very well, then you must agree that they need to stop their b***hing and show up to "work".

That makes almost no sense.

Yes, they're paid well.

Yes, they have a right to use their ability to bargain for more money, if possible.

Yes, the owners have a right to lockout the players and use their powers to bargain.

Uh oh! I haven't picked a side and started demonizing! Oh noes!

But no they shouldn't be grateful for their already ridiculously-high wages and stop b***hing about wanting more money?

Irrelevant. I'm sure they're grateful, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to use their ability to make more money. If you had a chance to get a raise, you would, but you aren't a millionaire athlete, so nobody cares. It's not immoral to try to get more money.

If there's more money being made, it either goes to the owners, or the players. Why should the players not try to get more? Because they already make a lot? So do the owners. Should they then just burn the money, because it's excessive?

only athletes have to be grateful for their money. businessmen are allowed to always want more.

He's making me defend a union, and it makes me feel dirty.

come to the dark side, my friend. we live on government handouts and retire on cushy pensions and never, ever work. never.

I can't do it. Next, you'll want me to support disability and hippies.

There are times when unions are benifitial. However, this is not one of them.

that makes zero sense.

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:
If you agree that they already get paid very well, then you must agree that they need to stop their b***hing and show up to "work".

That makes almost no sense.

Yes, they're paid well.

Yes, they have a right to use their ability to bargain for more money, if possible.

Yes, the owners have a right to lockout the players and use their powers to bargain.

Uh oh! I haven't picked a side and started demonizing! Oh noes!

But no they shouldn't be grateful for their already ridiculously-high wages and stop b***hing about wanting more money?

Irrelevant. I'm sure they're grateful, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to use their ability to make more money. If you had a chance to get a raise, you would, but you aren't a millionaire athlete, so nobody cares. It's not immoral to try to get more money.

If there's more money being made, it either goes to the owners, or the players. Why should the players not try to get more? Because they already make a lot? So do the owners. Should they then just burn the money, because it's excessive?

Of course not! Give 40% of the excess to charity, 10% to team webzones such as this one to help pay for Mods that know what they are talking about , 30% back to fans, and THEN burn the rest.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by aclarke49:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:
If you agree that they already get paid very well, then you must agree that they need to stop their b***hing and show up to "work".

That makes almost no sense.

Yes, they're paid well.

Yes, they have a right to use their ability to bargain for more money, if possible.

Yes, the owners have a right to lockout the players and use their powers to bargain.

Uh oh! I haven't picked a side and started demonizing! Oh noes!

But no they shouldn't be grateful for their already ridiculously-high wages and stop b***hing about wanting more money?

Irrelevant. I'm sure they're grateful, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to use their ability to make more money. If you had a chance to get a raise, you would, but you aren't a millionaire athlete, so nobody cares. It's not immoral to try to get more money.

If there's more money being made, it either goes to the owners, or the players. Why should the players not try to get more? Because they already make a lot? So do the owners. Should they then just burn the money, because it's excessive?

only athletes have to be grateful for their money. businessmen are allowed to always want more.

He's making me defend a union, and it makes me feel dirty.

come to the dark side, my friend. we live on government handouts and retire on cushy pensions and never, ever work. never.

I can't do it. Next, you'll want me to support disability and hippies.

There are times when unions are benifitial. However, this is not one of them.

that makes zero sense.

Study late 19c industrialism and the labor movement to follow. Unionization helped keep this country together. Labor had to fight hard against companies that exploited their labor and who had great influence over government.

For the average laborer, unionization and collective barganing are a good things. Managment haits it because it drives up costs and cuts into their profitability.

Study late 19c industrialism and the labor movement to follow. Unionization helped keep this country together. Labor had to fight hard against companies that exploited their labor and who had great influence over government.

For the average laborer, unionization and collective bargaining are a good things. Management hates it because it drives up costs and cuts into their profitability.

I really can get behind giving more to those who already have excess. Especially when there are plenty who are struggling to keep their heads above water.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by aclarke49:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:
If you agree that they already get paid very well, then you must agree that they need to stop their b***hing and show up to "work".

That makes almost no sense.

Yes, they're paid well.

Yes, they have a right to use their ability to bargain for more money, if possible.

Yes, the owners have a right to lockout the players and use their powers to bargain.

Uh oh! I haven't picked a side and started demonizing! Oh noes!

But no they shouldn't be grateful for their already ridiculously-high wages and stop b***hing about wanting more money?

Irrelevant. I'm sure they're grateful, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to use their ability to make more money. If you had a chance to get a raise, you would, but you aren't a millionaire athlete, so nobody cares. It's not immoral to try to get more money.

If there's more money being made, it either goes to the owners, or the players. Why should the players not try to get more? Because they already make a lot? So do the owners. Should they then just burn the money, because it's excessive?

only athletes have to be grateful for their money. businessmen are allowed to always want more.

He's making me defend a union, and it makes me feel dirty.

come to the dark side, my friend. we live on government handouts and retire on cushy pensions and never, ever work. never.

I can't do it. Next, you'll want me to support disability and hippies.

There are times when unions are benifitial. However, this is not one of them.

that makes zero sense.

So basically anyone not in agreement with you or Pantstickle makes no sense?

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by aclarke49:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:
If you agree that they already get paid very well, then you must agree that they need to stop their b***hing and show up to "work".

That makes almost no sense.

Yes, they're paid well.

Yes, they have a right to use their ability to bargain for more money, if possible.

Yes, the owners have a right to lockout the players and use their powers to bargain.

Uh oh! I haven't picked a side and started demonizing! Oh noes!

But no they shouldn't be grateful for their already ridiculously-high wages and stop b***hing about wanting more money?

Irrelevant. I'm sure they're grateful, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to use their ability to make more money. If you had a chance to get a raise, you would, but you aren't a millionaire athlete, so nobody cares. It's not immoral to try to get more money.

If there's more money being made, it either goes to the owners, or the players. Why should the players not try to get more? Because they already make a lot? So do the owners. Should they then just burn the money, because it's excessive?

only athletes have to be grateful for their money. businessmen are allowed to always want more.

He's making me defend a union, and it makes me feel dirty.

come to the dark side, my friend. we live on government handouts and retire on cushy pensions and never, ever work. never.

I can't do it. Next, you'll want me to support disability and hippies.

There are times when unions are benifitial. However, this is not one of them.

that makes zero sense.

So basically anyone not in agreement with you or Pantstickle makes no sense?

no. "this" is what unions do. i can understand if people don't like unions for whatever reason, but if you recognize that they have a benefit, then you pretty much have to include this situation. Unions negotiate on behalf of their members and use the tactics approved by their members.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by aclarke49:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:
If you agree that they already get paid very well, then you must agree that they need to stop their b***hing and show up to "work".

That makes almost no sense.

Yes, they're paid well.

Yes, they have a right to use their ability to bargain for more money, if possible.

Yes, the owners have a right to lockout the players and use their powers to bargain.

Uh oh! I haven't picked a side and started demonizing! Oh noes!

But no they shouldn't be grateful for their already ridiculously-high wages and stop b***hing about wanting more money?

Irrelevant. I'm sure they're grateful, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to use their ability to make more money. If you had a chance to get a raise, you would, but you aren't a millionaire athlete, so nobody cares. It's not immoral to try to get more money.

If there's more money being made, it either goes to the owners, or the players. Why should the players not try to get more? Because they already make a lot? So do the owners. Should they then just burn the money, because it's excessive?

only athletes have to be grateful for their money. businessmen are allowed to always want more.

He's making me defend a union, and it makes me feel dirty.

come to the dark side, my friend. we live on government handouts and retire on cushy pensions and never, ever work. never.

I can't do it. Next, you'll want me to support disability and hippies.

There are times when unions are benifitial. However, this is not one of them.

that makes zero sense.

So basically anyone not in agreement with you or Pantstickle makes no sense?

no. "this" is what unions do. i can understand if people don't like unions for whatever reason, but if you recognize that they have a benefit, then you pretty much have to include this situation. Unions negotiate on behalf of their members and use the tactics approved by their members.

and those tactics can include anything to get more....granted everybody wants more but a guy turning a wrench shouldn't make $30 an hour.

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
its a dumb thing to say, but i think its pretty obvious that he means "slavery" in that the players do "all" the work and have no control over the business (and are "owned" by a group of people who make all the decisions). He's not talking about working for nothing and being whipped and raped and forced to breed. Again, dumb thing to say, and not really the kind of thing that the players need at the moment, but I don't think there's any need to react emotionally to it.

Haha yeah. But, Americans love gotcha moments. I think it's also the fact that owners want players to play 18 games and it's obvious that will shortens careers (especially at RB) and he is tryin' to say that the owners don't care for the players health and only concerned with profits.

Of course, relating it to slavery is stupid, but I get what he is trying to say.

i think the whole context of this labor unrest is that, like you say, the players think the owners don't give a s**t about them, or respect them, or think they are valuable parts of the business, and that the league has been two-faced about things like player safety. Wanting them to play more games for less money, basically, is a big slap in the face. And while "slavery" isn't an "accurate" term, I don't think its as "explosive" a comment as it otherwise would be, given that it occurred in the context of this particular labor dispute.

Also, this sentiment is not an uncommon one from athletes when going into these kinds of "battles with authority." Not that this current dispute is on par with, say, Ali, or Flood, or White, in terms of "fighting for rights" or whatever, but I think the fact that this idea exists in sports post-integration is interesting. In a way I'm glad AP made this comment because it reminded me that I wanted to read that book "40 million dollar slaves," which is about all this.

Yeup...very much in agreement here.

you too done with each other yet For the record I acknowledge each of your stances that the state was stupid.

I think we can all truly agree there is no correlation to real slavery, not even close. Not unless you buy into the belief that capitalism is a form a slavery, then there is.

LOL. AP, the minute you mentioned percentages is the minute you should have excluded "slavery" from your rant.

It took hundreds of years for societies to get their slaves and serfs a minute share of the pie. When this was finally achieved a middle class boom occured.

Getting a small piece of the pie is what the slaves and serfs would have died for if they could.

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:
If you agree that they already get paid very well, then you must agree that they need to stop their b***hing and show up to "work".

That makes almost no sense.

Yes, they're paid well.

Yes, they have a right to use their ability to bargain for more money, if possible.

Yes, the owners have a right to lockout the players and use their powers to bargain.

Uh oh! I haven't picked a side and started demonizing! Oh noes!

But no they shouldn't be grateful for their already ridiculously-high wages and stop b***hing about wanting more money?

Irrelevant. I'm sure they're grateful, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to use their ability to make more money. If you had a chance to get a raise, you would, but you aren't a millionaire athlete, so nobody cares. It's not immoral to try to get more money.

If there's more money being made, it either goes to the owners, or the players. Why should the players not try to get more? Because they already make a lot? So do the owners. Should they then just burn the money, because it's excessive?

Of course not! Give 40% of the excess to charity, 10% to team webzones such as this one to help pay for Mods that know what they are talking about , 30% back to fans, and THEN burn the rest.

Make it 50% to mods, and 0% to charity, and you've got a deal. 50% to fans, and burn the charities, too.

Not true... there are white football players too.

AP should stfu

what defines "slave"? someone who is forced to work for someone else for no pay, and cannot leave....they get paid millions, and can walk away any time they want. soooo.......not slaves.

athletes should just not speak. theyre paid to play, not to talk. disallow twitter, and keep them off the air. no interviews. just shut up and score touchdowns.

Originally posted by Niners99:
what defines "slave"? someone who is forced to work for someone else for no pay, and cannot leave....they get paid millions, and can walk away any time they want. soooo.......not slaves.

athletes should just not speak. theyre paid to play, not to talk. disallow twitter, and keep them off the air. no interviews. just shut up and score touchdowns.

yeah, athletes shouldn't be allowed to speak because they're the only people in the world who say dumb things