Alex Smith Vs. Shaun Hill. . .

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by jones49:

Originally posted by dtcomposer:

Originally posted by jones49:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Shaun Hill is a better QB than Alex Smith. How is that even arguable? He has better numbers, a better winning %, better intangibles...you could go on and on.

I don't think people realize that Alex Smith is one of the worst QBs in the NFL (at the moment).

Cant argue that. It's sad but true. In fact, anyone that would argue that would be a complete idiot. One might have more QB skills but it doesn't make him the better QB.

I will argue that Alex Smith is better than Shaun Hill. I don't even think Smith is that great either. Shaun Hill is a mirage.

You just proved my point.

I would argue it too and since it was stated clearly I'll use this quote...

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Jahvid Best...dump offs...broke tackles...inflation...noodle arm...

And also point out that Hill only averages 1 TD a game wearing the Red and Gold. Smith was averaging damn near 3 a game last season.

Also for the obtuse arguing Hill's case... Smith gave up 1 TD due to a mistake by Tree. But I guess that doesn't matter. Nor that our Defense needed life Support by the 3rd Quarter. We had ZERO Pass Rush and Hasselback caught our opportunists for 21 points.

Stop bashing Smith or just stop being a fan. At this time I could give a flying f@ck which. If he tanks this season then he's gone. If not then I didn't have to see the crap being heaped on the guy. You guys doing this crap know who you are. So much for you guys giving the man this season to put up or shut up. No honor amongst the Whiners on the Zone.

F@CK Pie Throwing Hill, he sucked when he played for us.He didn't do anything but manage games and our Defense did most of the work. His record with this team is as inflated as pair or Saline filled tits.

~Ceadder

AGAIN...MORE TRUTH

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:
How bad is it when we have to compare our Starting QB to backups to try and make ourselves feel better about our QB situation...

Im with you on that one. I thought the HIll debate was done. But as far as the WR situation, i dont know when our team will ever adress that true issue.

Unfortunately, I see it as a delivery issue not at receiving issue. Sure, if it was only one or two players then I could see it as a receiver issue; but, I have a hard time buying into all our receivers have a problem instead of thinking the one thing in common (QB) has a problem; but, I'm getting off subject...

I see it as a playcalling issue.

I see Hill as being better in any offense in the first two years, if pitted against Smith, who is a notoriously slow learner. In the third year or fourth year of that offense, Smith should surpass Hill.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by lazy:
Shaun Hill won games when it didn't matter.

like our last two games last year? Also, Hill took us to the brink of victory against the red hot vikings last year, in Minnesota.


p.s. Hill threw for 300+ yards in his most recent game, something I think Smith has only done once in his career if I'm not wrong, lol.

And he is doing it with the LIONS!

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:
How bad is it when we have to compare our Starting QB to backups to try and make ourselves feel better about our QB situation...

Im with you on that one. I thought the HIll debate was done. But as far as the WR situation, i dont know when our team will ever adress that true issue.

Unfortunately, I see it as a delivery issue not at receiving issue. Sure, if it was only one or two players then I could see it as a receiver issue; but, I have a hard time buying into all our receivers have a problem instead of thinking the one thing in common (QB) has a problem; but, I'm getting off subject...

But u have to be real, and say just because it's hard to buy it, doesnt make it untrue. And it may not be all, but i'll say it's more than it should be over the years. I mean Brandon L, D.Jack, Crabs at times, J. Hill, etc. Much more than one or two over the years.

Only someone blind couldns see that our WR's have been having these issues, whether JTO, HIll, or Smith has been at the helm. So trust me i know how you see the QB issue, please believe if anything thats one thing i do know about you as a poster.

But im simply pointing out that our WR's have had issues, catching, getting separation, or even failing on certain routes. And this has been an issue for a long time despite the QB issue, dont forget it hasnt been Smith starting every game for the past 5 years.

Again, lets look at the facts. We've gone with JT O'Suckagain, Shaun Hill, and Trent Dilfer. Were talking Backups here and almost all of them were able to post similar numbers to Alex. I'm sure you remember why we got rid of them all.

Imagine what we could do with a good QB?

Originally posted by HomerJ:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:
How bad is it when we have to compare our Starting QB to backups to try and make ourselves feel better about our QB situation...

Im with you on that one. I thought the HIll debate was done. But as far as the WR situation, i dont know when our team will ever adress that true issue.

Unfortunately, I see it as a delivery issue not at receiving issue. Sure, if it was only one or two players then I could see it as a receiver issue; but, I have a hard time buying into all our receivers have a problem instead of thinking the one thing in common (QB) has a problem; but, I'm getting off subject...

I see it as a playcalling issue.

But when play calling changed the QB position performance didn't change all that much. Were talking Martz, Norv, J-Raye...

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
It is sad to see this franchise which was known for an innovative passing game now struggling with wide receivers that could not start for the Detroit Lions.

When Shaun Hill was here it was clear he did not have the arm strength to be a downfield threat but now he is in Detroit where they have invested draft choices in the kind of receivers that can read defenses, are fast and agile, that can get separation and YAC. Yes, it was only one game but is showed a need on this team that must be addressed in the 2011 draft. The quality of the receivers has a huge effect on the efficiency of the QB, and Shaun Hill just showed that yesterday.

Hit the nail right on the head....

Wonder when our receivers will play like this.

There are really two problems.

1. The Raye offense shows no signs of having plays designed to go down the field. Oh, sure, there are a few plays that take shots down the field but they are just simple GO routes, at least from what we have seen.

Teams that are able to consistently complete passes in the 15-20 yard range set up those plays BY DESIGN. They don't just hoist one up once in a while just to show they can. Those teams spend time setting up those deeper plays with other plays such as the deep completions by Seattle last Sunday. After Clements got his pick by jumping the route, Seattle took advantage of that tendency with two deep completions. THAT is what I mean by "design."

2. The current SF receivers are not the kind of guys who will get open consistently in the 15-20 yard range. Josh Morgan is quite a good downfield blocker but he doesn't scare anyone as a pass receiver. Ziegler is barely off the practice squad. Ginn is a waiver wire reject. That brings us to Crabtree and he is FAR from a polished receiver in this league. He lack of focus and work ethic is telling. Right now, he wouldn't start in Detroit, much less Indy, Green Bay or even Cincy. That leaves Vernon Davis as the only true threat and though he is a deep threat, he still is not adept at making the kind of hot reads that Antonio Gates or Todd Heap or Jason Whitten make regularly.

If the 49ers are serious about developing a passing game, they must DRAFT receivers that have the abilities of a Calvin Johnson. Until they make that commitment, the SF quarterbacks will be limited by both the quality of the wideouts and the design of the offense. Wideouts and cornerbacks are the prime need for the 2011 draft, IF Sing and Raye are still here and they truly WANT a passing game.

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Deodato:
POINT PROVEN!!

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2010/09/jim_schwartz_on_wbbl_2.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+detroit-lions+%28Detroit+Lions+-+MLive.com%29

Between 2007-09, Hill was 10-6 as the starting quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers. For his career, Hill has completed 61.2 percent of his passes, tossing 23 touchdowns and only 12 interceptions.

Yea, Alex Smith is better...

Arithmatic is not your strong suit is it?

How bout simple Algebra?

In two years Hill has averaged an 60% Interception to TD ratio. Every ten TD's he's Intercepted 6 times. But I guess that's bound to happen when you cannot throw farther than 10 yards without fluttering the Pass. How the hell can a man of his size not be able to throw the ball farther than 30 yards but once or twice a game?

Oh yeah I'm on board now. Let's dump Smith and beg Hill to come back. You people are nuts.

And you're being spurred on by a n00b with zero intelligence. Smith played THREE of his last 5 years. Not SIX. We're into his sixth season as a 9er not as the Starting QB.

That stat listing proved that Hill was even less the future than Alex.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:
How bad is it when we have to compare our Starting QB to backups to try and make ourselves feel better about our QB situation...

Im with you on that one. I thought the HIll debate was done. But as far as the WR situation, i dont know when our team will ever adress that true issue.

Unfortunately, I see it as a delivery issue not at receiving issue. Sure, if it was only one or two players then I could see it as a receiver issue; but, I have a hard time buying into all our receivers have a problem instead of thinking the one thing in common (QB) has a problem; but, I'm getting off subject...

But u have to be real, and say just because it's hard to buy it, doesnt make it untrue. And it may not be all, but i'll say it's more than it should be over the years. I mean Brandon L, D.Jack, Crabs at times, J. Hill, etc. Much more than one or two over the years.

Only someone blind couldns see that our WR's have been having these issues, whether JTO, HIll, or Smith has been at the helm. So trust me i know how you see the QB issue, please believe if anything thats one thing i do know about you as a poster.

But im simply pointing out that our WR's have had issues, catching, getting separation, or even failing on certain routes. And this has been an issue for a long time despite the QB issue, dont forget it hasnt been Smith starting every game for the past 5 years.

Again, lets look at the facts. We've gone with JT O'Suckagain, Shaun Hill, and Trent Dilfer. Were talking Backups here and almost all of them were able to post similar numbers to Alex. I'm sure you remember why we got rid of them all.

Imagine what we could do with a good QB?

So NONE of those QBs' would have benefitted from having their Receivers catch the Passes they're SUPPOSED to?

O'Sullivan's only downfall was that he would throw into coverage and then force another Pass into the same area with the SAME exact coverage. His INT ratio was attrocious because of it.

The only reason he was on the field was because of Martz and because Smith was injured with a broken clavicle that Nolan forced him into breaking. Instead of letting him heal properly Alex was put through Camp and then got injured in Preseason.


But I digress. Even if Hill had better Receivers he could have done more. It's funny how little you expect of our Receivers and how much you expect of our QBs'.

Newsflash, even Joe and Steve needed solid Recievers that caught the ones in between their numbers.

I guess you've forgotten how the transition from Joe to Steve was not quite so smooth. And of course people blamed it all on Steve. One would think that our fans would have learned something by now.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:
How bad is it when we have to compare our Starting QB to backups to try and make ourselves feel better about our QB situation...

Im with you on that one. I thought the HIll debate was done. But as far as the WR situation, i dont know when our team will ever adress that true issue.

Unfortunately, I see it as a delivery issue not at receiving issue. Sure, if it was only one or two players then I could see it as a receiver issue; but, I have a hard time buying into all our receivers have a problem instead of thinking the one thing in common (QB) has a problem; but, I'm getting off subject...

But u have to be real, and say just because it's hard to buy it, doesnt make it untrue. And it may not be all, but i'll say it's more than it should be over the years. I mean Brandon L, D.Jack, Crabs at times, J. Hill, etc. Much more than one or two over the years.

Only someone blind couldns see that our WR's have been having these issues, whether JTO, HIll, or Smith has been at the helm. So trust me i know how you see the QB issue, please believe if anything thats one thing i do know about you as a poster.

But im simply pointing out that our WR's have had issues, catching, getting separation, or even failing on certain routes. And this has been an issue for a long time despite the QB issue, dont forget it hasnt been Smith starting every game for the past 5 years.

Again, lets look at the facts. We've gone with JT O'Suckagain, Shaun Hill, and Trent Dilfer. Were talking Backups here and almost all of them were able to post similar numbers to Alex. I'm sure you remember why we got rid of them all.

Imagine what we could do with a good QB?

So NONE of those QBs' would have benefitted from having their Receivers catch the Passes they're SUPPOSED to?

O'Sullivan's only downfall was that he would throw into coverage and then force another Pass into the same area with the SAME exact coverage. His INT ratio was attrocious because of it.

The only reason he was on the field was because of Martz and because Smith was injured with a broken clavicle that Nolan forced him into breaking. Instead of letting him heal properly Alex was put through Camp and then got injured in Preseason.


But I digress. Even if Hill had better Receivers he could have done more. It's funny how little you expect of our Receivers and how much you expect of our QBs'.

Newsflash, even Joe and Steve needed solid Recievers that caught the ones in between their numbers.

I guess you've forgotten how the transition from Joe to Steve was not quite so smooth. And of course people blamed it all on Steve. One would think that our fans would have learned something by now.

~Ceadder

LOL, you just don't get it do you. All of those QB's were booted cause they suck and couldn't deliver an accurate ball. Alex is in the same company as those guys.

Why do you think some of our receivers, like Antino Bryant, become better players once they leave here?

Scott Linehan>>>>>>>>Jimmy Raye

Will this debate never end? Shaun Hill is marginal at best. Smith isnt great by any stretch of the imagination but Hill should never be more than a backup in this league.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Will this debate never end? Shaun Hill is marginal at best. Smith isnt great by any stretch of the imagination but Hill should never be more than a backup in this league.

And to be honest Smith hasn't proved hes a starter either in this league.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Will this debate never end? Shaun Hill is marginal at best. Smith isnt great by any stretch of the imagination but Hill should never be more than a backup in this league.

And to be honest Smith hasn't proved hes a starter either in this league.

Perspective.

Interesting how when Hill came to the 49ers, he was in the league 5 years and was called a 5 year journeyman.

FYI, Alex is in his 6th year with more starting experience than Shaun Hill and both of their best numbers were about the same.

All these labels we have given our previous backups: Hill, JTO, and now David Carr should say more about Alex Smith than less about those "career journeymen".

The only difference between them and Alex Smith is that Alex makes more money and has started more games.

[ Edited by Joecool on Sep 20, 2010 at 11:50:28 ]