Mac Jones-QB-Bama

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Or similar to Drew Brees as well. I guess I should've said similar. I know what I meant as far as the point lol. But yeah, if you look at the guy and see he has all the intangibles, all the mental tools, and all the physical tools outside of running ability, why wouldn't he go high? Supporting cast didn't hurt Tua. It didn't hurt Burrows obviously. It won't hurt Lawrence. I doubt it impacts Jones' evaluations much. Size is adequate at 6-3 215. He can make all the throws, just doesn't have a Rodgers/Mahomes cannon to flick it 65-70 yards. Overall, looks like a top 15 guy to me.

It's funny we say his size is fine, yet he's damn near identical as far as size goes with Wilson (who people say his size is a issue). Difference is Wilson can move around and protect himself. Jones is at mercy to his OL much much more. Like Miller said the physical ability between Burrow and Jones aren't the same and I agree.

I will disagree he's a top 15 guy, which is fine we all can't agree on everything

Burrow was obviously better built and comes with all the same tools except he has a "plus" arm and, while not a runner, is more athletic than Mac. That's why Wilson is so much more tantalizing obviously. Who wouldn't want a mobile guy that can sling it with big-time velocity all over the yard and make more tight window throws?

Mac may not be able to make as many tight window throws at the larger depths downfield, and that's why he's probably not a top 10 pick. But more of an 11-32 guy (we'll see how he does at the combine). Looking at the guy, the fact that he's this good while clearly having room to be transformed physically in the NFL, leads me to believe he has almost a sort of "hidden" extra upside to him.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Burrow was obviously better built and comes with all the same tools except he has a "plus" arm and, while not a runner, is more athletic than Mac. That's why Wilson is so much more tantalizing obviously. Who wouldn't want a mobile guy that can sling it with big-time velocity all over the yard and make more tight window throws?

Mac may not be able to make as many tight window throws at the larger depths downfield, and that's why he's probably not a top 10 pick. But more of an 11-32 guy (we'll see how he does at the combine). Looking at the guy, the fact that he's this good while clearly having room to be transformed physically in the NFL, leads me to believe he has almost a sort of "hidden" extra upside to him.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by LSUNINER:

I'll pass on Mac and just take the reason he is good...that would be the Najee Harris. He is the reason Mac looked so good, kind of like CEH did for Burrow last season at LSU. Move back or up in the draft and target that beast. Mac is immobile and had time because of better talent and Harris put fear in the play action!

LSU fan, hmmm...

Well LSU grad or not I still would rather have Najee!

I don't think Jones is a top 15 guy. I won't be surprised if he goes top 15 or even top 10 though. It's the premium position, and someone is going to reach.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:

I mean it's hypothetical. We automatically assume that someone like Lance or Wilson play even better with Bama's roster but Jones doesn't get the benefit of the doubt that on a weaker roster(and vs weaker competition he couldn't play well like those guys)

Hell I responded to your post just seeing the first part and you included the Zach Wilson in Bama would play better.

And you watched Kap right? God given ability for days...never developed as a passer or learned all those things you mention.

Some guys have the tools and develop - Mahomes, Allen. Some don't. Just because you hand someone a physics book doesn't mean they can grasp all the concepts and learn physics.

That's why getting a guy who has the things that have made QBs successful for years already down isn't a bad thing...even if the ceiling is low and he cannot do things some of these stud QBs can do when plays break down.

We have a pretty good roster and we have Kyle Shanahan. Having one of the elites would be awesome but it's not a necessity. The plus of having Kyle.

Well, they played outstanding surrounded by a 10th of the talent Jones had (coaching as well). Do you think Jones skill set on a team with a much worse OL would help or hurt him? IF he was throwing to WRs that weren't gonna even get drafted would that help or hurt him? playmakers that can't separate at will?

I mean come one dude.

Kap was never a good QB not even at Nevada, he was a pure athlete. He wasn't a natural thrower and had horrible mechanics. I think we can safely say Harbs is not some QB whisper who can develop QBs.

Clearly you interview this guys and SEE what they know and can learn. Get them on the white board, have conversations. Talk to their coaches etc etc etc. One of the main reasons these top end QBs fail, isn't because they're not talented or can't learn the difference between coverages or pickup a blitz...it's because the coaching staff is f**king awful. It's because the roster is f**king awful. Teams don't give these players the proper tools to be successful. They don't get the proper time to develop. My god we have people actually saying Miami should move off Tua? I mean give me a break.

Why not give Kyle the best possible QB with the most upside? For once give the man a legit stud QB...instead of "well we could do worse"

I'm with you on your main point I just think it's funny how the narrative changes. You just said you can teach guys all that stuff and we saw first hand Kap couldn't. You really think a white board session or meeting reveals it all?

Kap was a smart kid who I'm sure did really well during his interview. Kurt Warner mentioned that with their training too. Kap could learn the stuff. It just didn't translate to the field and he couldn't put the knowledge to use.

We'll see what happens. I'd love any of the top 4 guys and hope Kyle works his magic with them but if I was making a bet Lance would be my pick for Kyle not to be his guy.

However it is nice to see him working on his skills while prepping for the draft. Maybe there's enough there to pull the plug but he definitely wouldn't be a guy I'd want to trade up for. If he's there at 12...great hope he's the pick.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
I mean it's hypothetical. We automatically assume that someone like Lance or Wilson play even better with Bama's roster but Jones doesn't get the benefit of the doubt that on a weaker roster(and vs weaker competition he couldn't play well like those guys)

Hell I responded to your post just seeing the first part and you included the Zach Wilson in Bama would play better.

And you watched Kap right? God given ability for days...never developed as a passer or learned all those things you mention.

Some guys have the tools and develop - Mahomes, Allen. Some don't. Just because you hand someone a physics book doesn't mean they can grasp all the concepts and learn physics.

That's why getting a guy who has the things that have made QBs successful for years already down isn't a bad thing...even if the ceiling is low and he cannot do things some of these stud QBs can do when plays break down.

We have a pretty good roster and we have Kyle Shanahan. Having one of the elites would be awesome but it's not a necessity. The plus of having Kyle.

Well, they played outstanding surrounded by a 10th of the talent Jones had (coaching as well). Do you think Jones skill set on a team with a much worse OL would help or hurt him? IF he was throwing to WRs that weren't gonna even get drafted would that help or hurt him? playmakers that can't separate at will?

I mean come one dude.

Kap was never a good QB not even at Nevada, he was a pure athlete. He wasn't a natural thrower and had horrible mechanics. I think we can safely say Harbs is not some QB whisper who can develop QBs.

Clearly you interview this guys and SEE what they know and can learn. Get them on the white board, have conversations. Talk to their coaches etc etc etc. One of the main reasons these top end QBs fail, isn't because they're not talented or can't learn the difference between coverages or pickup a blitz...it's because the coaching staff is f**king awful. It's because the roster is f**king awful. Teams don't give these players the proper tools to be successful. They don't get the proper time to develop. My god we have people actually saying Miami should move off Tua? I mean give me a break.

Why not give Kyle the best possible QB with the most upside? For once give the man a legit stud QB...instead of "well we could do worse"

I'm with you on your main point I just think it's funny how the narrative changes. You just said you can teach guys all that stuff and we saw first hand Kap couldn't. You really think a white board session or meeting reveals it all?

Kap was a smart kid who I'm sure did really well during his interview. Kurt Warner mentioned that with their training too. Kap could learn the stuff. It just didn't translate to the field and he couldn't put the knowledge to use.

We'll see what happens. I'd love any of the top 4 guys and hope Kyle works his magic with them but if I was making a bet Lance would be my pick for Kyle not to be his guy.

However it is nice to see him working on his skills while prepping for the draft. Maybe there's enough there to pull the plug but he definitely wouldn't be a guy I'd want to trade up for. If he's there at 12...great hope he's the pick.

True. I still believe Sam Darnold could show why he was a top prospect in 2018, he deserves better than Adam Gase.
I see Dolphins fans and media giving up on Tua, ignoring the fact the kid was coming back from a big injury and didn't have an offseason.
With Josh Rosen the issue is the attitude and that's why he's labeled as a certified bust already.
Kap was one of those great athletes but mediocre passers, like Manziel. Trey Lance looks actually better than any of those 2, the only flaw I have seen from his game is how he stares to his receivers.
Perhaps Mac Jones played himself into the top 10 with the hype of the national championship performance. I honestly wouldn't mind neither of the top 5 QB prospects of this draft. The only condition is to do everything in their power to upgrade the putrid pass protection OL.

Originally posted by LSUNINER:

Well LSU grad or not I still would rather have Najee!

Thank god you aren't the GM.

Lol at drafting a RB in the first. Might as well get a kicker in the 2nd to cap it off.

The upper echelon of qbs have the innate ability to lead and read defenses presnap, along with a complete control of their offense to audible just prior to the snap. This can turn an average offensive line into an elite unit. The best to ever to do it was Peyton, but Brady, Big Ben, Rivers, Wilson, Mahomes all do it to a degree. It's all considered part of intangibles and what not. To me, Mac is the most likely to take control of, or manage an offense the best out of this class, Lawrence excluded. Now he is well below Fields, Wilson and Lance athletically, but can he make up for that on the "board" or with his intangibles? That's something a GM is going to have to weigh. Going to be a fun few months

This guy's videos are great.

Watching a bit more Mac Jones and I think I'm guilty of comparison bias. I saw Lawrence, Fields & Lance coming into the year and they all have upper echelon NFL arms.

When watching Jones, and also Trask I then made the mistake of rating their arms as mediocre in comparison, which they are.

However they are adequate NFL arms there's no Nathan Peterman, Nick Mullens noodle.

I'm still of the opinion that both Jones & Trask have 2nd round traits, however I'm now convinced that Jones' play makes him a 1st round QB.

There's been some talk that he's perfect for our scheme, and I'm not quite there yet, but we could do far worse.

I wouldn't hate the pick

Originally posted by illinois9er:
I wouldn't hate the pick

at 12 I would

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by illinois9er:

I wouldn't hate the pick

at 12 I would

Ok, 13

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Watching a bit more Mac Jones and I think I'm guilty of comparison bias. I saw Lawrence, Fields & Lance coming into the year and they all have upper echelon NFL arms.

When watching Jones, and also Trask I then made the mistake of rating their arms as mediocre in comparison, which they are.

However they are adequate NFL arms there's no Nathan Peterman, Nick Mullens noodle.

I'm still of the opinion that both Jones & Trask have 2nd round traits, however I'm now convinced that Jones' play makes him a 1st round QB.

There's been some talk that he's perfect for our scheme, and I'm not quite there yet, but we could do far worse.

There's a reason the top 4 will go ahead of Jones, traits and upside. Just how the draft works.

I don't think Jones has a noodle arm, I don't think he has the velocity as the other top 4 prospects though. His arm strength IMO is right around Andy Dalton level. He's kinda similar to him in the sense they're both heady/high IQ football QBs. Both are accurate and are rhythm QBs (same size I believe), great situational awareness etc. Jones IMO has heavy feet, that's in the pocket or outside. I wouldn't say he's got a quick release either.

I think one of the reasons people say he's a good fit for SF, is because he's smart and knows where to go with the ball. Outside of that I don't see why he would be a better fit than say Wilson.

Where Jones goes will be far more important than the rest of the top 4 IMO.

Also Trask no need to talk about him lol.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
There's a reason the top 4 will go ahead of Jones, traits and upside. Just how the draft works.

I don't think Jones has a noodle arm, I don't think he has the velocity as the other top 4 prospects though. His arm strength IMO is right around Andy Dalton level. He's kinda similar to him in the sense they're both heady/high IQ football QBs. Both are accurate and are rhythm QBs (same size I believe), great situational awareness etc. Jones IMO has heavy feet, that's in the pocket or outside. I wouldn't say he's got a quick release either.

I think one of the reasons people say he's a good fit for SF, is because he's smart and knows where to go with the ball. Outside of that I don't see why he would be a better fit than say Wilson.

Where Jones goes will be far more important than the rest of the top 4 IMO.

Also Trask no need to talk about him lol.

I don't think anyone's arguing that Wilson wouldn't be a great fit, but now, with all the Deshaun Watson hype regardless if it's realistic or not, is worth the draft picks it would probably take to get within the top 5. We all know you're in love with Zach Wilson. You've been beating that drum constantly, but Mac Jones, despite you saying you'd be ok if Shanahan picked him as his QB, fits almost everything we need in a QB other than being mobile or having a rifle for an arm.

Oh, and I'm still on that Kyle Trask bandwagon