Mac Jones-QB-Patriots

To me its basically Matt Ryan at BC all over again. Similar strengths and weaknesses. High level processing, quick release, can throw accurately to all levels of the field, good pocket presence and can stand in and make the tough throws with pressure in his face.

If he continues his high level of play, I think he can solidify himself as a Top 4 QB in this class.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by PuckFarag10:

Which is totally sad. If we're in position to draft Wilson in April (highly probable now), and we pass him up for someone like Jones it's a terrible decision. Wilson is dynamic, Jones isn't.

I don't hate Mac Jones. He's a mighty fine prospect, and he seems like the type of prospect that can become a "franchise QB."

But I don't see him as the type of prospect that elevates a franchise. The type of player that can singlehandedly carry the team when everything around him is falling apart. I guess it ultimately comes down to whether the organization is even looking for that type of player. My gut tells me no. Kyle wants an extension of himself at QB.

That's the problem. Especially the last bit. If Shanahan truly desired greatness he'd be over the moon to draft a QB that has the intangibles and abilities of Wilson. However, you hit the nail on the head by saying that he wants an extension of himself at QB, basically a robot to go out and run plays and not create magic or lift up a team on his own.

Originally posted by PuckFarag10:
That's the problem. Especially the last bit. If Shanahan truly desired greatness he'd be over the moon to draft a QB that has the intangibles and abilities of Wilson. However, you hit the nail on the head by saying that he wants an extension of himself at QB, basically a robot to go out and run plays and not create magic or lift up a team on his own.

I love how its been decided that if you're more of a conventional pocket passer, you don't have the ability to carry an offense on your own. You don't need to be Baker Mayfield or Kyler Murray to be able to put up huge numbers as a passer in the NFL.

Someone that can sit in the pocket, get rid of the ball quickly, get it to the playmakers and challenge a defense at all levels still plays well with NFL offenses.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

The touch is really, really impressive.

Mac Jones was already an NFL prospect entering the season, but he's clearly elevated his play in 2020. His pocket movements and confidence as a passer are outstanding. https://t.co/TDeLyFx9tE

— Dane Brugler (@dpbrugler) October 24, 2020

To me its basically Matt Ryan at BC all over again. Similar strengths and weaknesses. High level processing, quick release, can throw accurately to all levels of the field, good pocket presence and can stand in and make the tough throws with pressure in his face.

If he continues his high level of play, I think he can solidify himself as a Top 4 QB in this class.

I watched the game against Georgia and I was definitely impressed.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by PuckFarag10:

That's the problem. Especially the last bit. If Shanahan truly desired greatness he'd be over the moon to draft a QB that has the intangibles and abilities of Wilson. However, you hit the nail on the head by saying that he wants an extension of himself at QB, basically a robot to go out and run plays and not create magic or lift up a team on his own.

I love how its been decided that if you're more of a conventional pocket passer, you don't have the ability to carry an offense on your own. You don't need to be Baker Mayfield or Kyler Murray to be able to put up huge numbers as a passer in the NFL.

Someone that can sit in the pocket, get rid of the ball quickly, get it to the playmakers and challenge a defense at all levels still plays well with NFL offenses.

They can, and Jones isn't a bad QB either. Ryan, Brees and Brady are proof enough. Its just with how our OL pass protects, someone like Wilson would be able to find more success I think. Did not mean for my opinion to get misconstrued as a decision for or against any one thing.

Originally posted by PuckFarag10:
They can, and Jones isn't a bad QB either. Ryan, Brees and Brady are proof enough. Its just with how our OL pass protects, someone like Wilson would be able to find more success I think. Did not mean for my opinion to get misconstrued as a decision for or against any one thing.

I'm guessing that the OL is going to see some changes this offseason too, definitely at center. The center is so critical for making calls on the line, making adjustments and picking up blitzes and the 49ers have had a revolving door at the position since Shanahan has been here. This offseason will be the time to get that position set which I think that move alone makes the entire OL a whole lot better. The good thing is there's some intriguing center prospects so if the 49ers do get serious about the position, which is what I'm expecting, they'll have several good options to choose from ranging from Rounds 1 to 4.

Originally posted by PuckFarag10:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by PuckFarag10:

Which is totally sad. If we're in position to draft Wilson in April (highly probable now), and we pass him up for someone like Jones it's a terrible decision. Wilson is dynamic, Jones isn't.

I don't hate Mac Jones. He's a mighty fine prospect, and he seems like the type of prospect that can become a "franchise QB."

But I don't see him as the type of prospect that elevates a franchise. The type of player that can singlehandedly carry the team when everything around him is falling apart. I guess it ultimately comes down to whether the organization is even looking for that type of player. My gut tells me no. Kyle wants an extension of himself at QB.

That's the problem. Especially the last bit. If Shanahan truly desired greatness he'd be over the moon to draft a QB that has the intangibles and abilities of Wilson. However, you hit the nail on the head by saying that he wants an extension of himself at QB, basically a robot to go out and run plays and not create magic or lift up a team on his own.

Again you guys are throwing this around like it's proven fact. Nobody here has shown any undeniable evidence that Shanahan despises QBs that are mobile and can improvise when the play breaks down. That's like choosing to handicap yourself. Shanahan isn't dumb.

Again, he just has a basic set of qualifications he looks for: can play from the pocket, can read a defense, is accurate, makes good decisions and can execute the play as designed IF it's there. Shanahan isn't dumb or arrogant enough to assume that the play is always going to work as designed, of course it's a desirable to have a qb that can make off schedule plays if the play breaks down.

We haven't seen that because Jimmy lost a step after the ACL and lost his composure. The only type of QB that Shanny doesn't like and rules out are the Kaepernicks and Lamars whose leg talent is the main attraction

I think to say Kyle is not a fan of mobile QBs is not true. However, he clearly prefers guys who have been making plays from the pocket for their entire life, and that's typically not mobile QBs:

Well, it's never a detriment. It's an attribute that every single quarterback in the league would like to have. My personal opinion is when you can move and stuff at an early age, probably going to get in trouble here, but when I played quarterback when I was little, I didn't have the best arm, but I was more of a receiver. So, as soon as in pop warner the ball snapped, I knew no one was going to block, I was just trying to think of how to run right away. You're not staying in the pocket looking down the field reading coverages. I think you have some quarterbacks, and I would guess [New England Patriots QB] Tom Brady and [former NFL QB] Peyton Manning, I don't think they were ever mobile when they were seven, when they were 18, when they were 30. I think they've always been guys who have to sit in there and look down the field and learn how to get rid of the ball and if you've been doing that since you're seven years old to the NFL, you've had a hell-of-a lot more reps then this guy who's been able to run around and make plays all the time. Now, he gets to the NFL and someone's saying, 'Hey, do that sometimes, but most of the time you've got to sit in there and keep your eyes downfield,' and you're asking a guy to do that for the first time in his life when you only get so many reps in training camp, so many in OTAs, and now you're going into Week 1 of the NFL and you're going to tell a guy to play like that. I mean, they're going to play what's made them successful their whole life. So, it's more about what you've worked at your whole life. If I could go win a Heisman running around and just making plays, I think any of us would go do that. Now you get to the NFL and you can't do that anymore and it just takes time. It's more about reps. It's not that they can't do it. It's how long have they been doing it for.

-Kyle Shanahan

Originally posted by Heroism:

I think to say Kyle is not a fan of mobile QBs is not true. However, he clearly prefers guys who have been making plays from the pocket for their entire life, and that's typically not mobile QBs:

Well, it's never a detriment. It's an attribute that every single quarterback in the league would like to have. My personal opinion is when you can move and stuff at an early age, probably going to get in trouble here, but when I played quarterback when I was little, I didn't have the best arm, but I was more of a receiver. So, as soon as in pop warner the ball snapped, I knew no one was going to block, I was just trying to think of how to run right away. You're not staying in the pocket looking down the field reading coverages. I think you have some quarterbacks, and I would guess [New England Patriots QB] Tom Brady and [former NFL QB] Peyton Manning, I don't think they were ever mobile when they were seven, when they were 18, when they were 30. I think they've always been guys who have to sit in there and look down the field and learn how to get rid of the ball and if you've been doing that since you're seven years old to the NFL, you've had a hell-of-a lot more reps then this guy who's been able to run around and make plays all the time. Now, he gets to the NFL and someone's saying, 'Hey, do that sometimes, but most of the time you've got to sit in there and keep your eyes downfield,' and you're asking a guy to do that for the first time in his life when you only get so many reps in training camp, so many in OTAs, and now you're going into Week 1 of the NFL and you're going to tell a guy to play like that. I mean, they're going to play what's made them successful their whole life. So, it's more about what you've worked at your whole life. If I could go win a Heisman running around and just making plays, I think any of us would go do that. Now you get to the NFL and you can't do that anymore and it just takes time. It's more about reps. It's not that they can't do it. It's how long have they been doing it for.

-Kyle Shanahan

That's fair. But I think he's talking about the extreme ends of the spectrum. Most will fall within the middle, and he will definitely have a preference for a QB that's been working from the pocket for a long time. But there's a lot of those types that can move too.

I don't know much about these prospects, but assuming Wilson and Jones are equally good from the pocket, I have to think he would take Wilson for his added dimension in his game.

I forgot this part. Slower is better?

I'll say that we run a lot of bootlegs and things like that. Usually the most success I've had with quarterbacks who can do that are the ones who aren't mobile, because I only want to run bootlegs and stuff if people aren't playing them and when you have a mobile guy, they're playing them. When you don't, they play the run and then you get slow quarterbacks out on the edge and they can throw all day. Not because they're just super athletes with their legs, but they're good enough to throw on the move and you can use them. They don't have to always just be fast, but there's a different type of guy. When you have that speed and cutting ability as a quarterback, that different level, then you start thinking about zone read and things like that."

If Wilson plays well against Boise State Friday I'll be impressed. BYU has played a joke schedule so far. At least Alabama plays against teams that get players to the NFL. I know COVID messed up BYU schedule, but man they play weak teams.

People are sleeping on Mac here. I am wowed on how much he has improved. I really think Burrows improvement last year will have a lasting impact on later generations of college QBs. He transformed himself seemingly overnight from his 2 seasons at LSU. Not saying Mac will be that but I will be watching him from afar.

Originally posted by Heroism:

I forgot this part. Slower is better?

I'll say that we run a lot of bootlegs and things like that. Usually the most success I've had with quarterbacks who can do that are the ones who aren't mobile, because I only want to run bootlegs and stuff if people aren't playing them and when you have a mobile guy, they're playing them. When you don't, they play the run and then you get slow quarterbacks out on the edge and they can throw all day. Not because they're just super athletes with their legs, but they're good enough to throw on the move and you can use them. They don't have to always just be fast, but there's a different type of guy. When you have that speed and cutting ability as a quarterback, that different level, then you start thinking about zone read and things like that."

What Shanahan is saying here is he doesn't run his offense where he wants his QB to be a dual threat, meaning he doesn't scheme for the QB to run read options or designed runs. That doesn't mean he favors statues, just that he wants a QB to be a pocket QB first. The ability to move in the pocket, roll out when needed and evade pass rushers are still important to Kyle as it is with all coaches. He just doesn't want a Lamar Jackson.

Shanahan has said he wants a "natural thrower" and I just don´t see Mac Jones as a real natural thrower because he needs perfect mechanics on every throw to make it work.

Look at Zach Wilson and you guys will see a real natural thrower.