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Dee Ford signed as a D-Lineman/LEO,,(so where would/could Bosa go ??)

matt maiocco's Podcast this AM he stated that none of these FA moves will affect who they draft at 2. Duh lol
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by toppdogg32:
seems like it, It seems as though everytime we try and incl. Bosa, in the discussion there's all kinds of acrobatics we have to do. Resigning AA to $9mil., and Signing Dee Ford is what kinda caused a domino effect on D-Line to shun acquiring Bosa. You add any other player (Allen, Williams, etc. ) and then the D-Line lineup kinda flows w/o a ripple. I see why everyone wants Bosa, and I too wanted him BEFORE we made the above moves. But I'm not for scrambling the whole D-Line around to force a fit. If Bosa was a LDE, bravo-take him in a heartbeat!, but to add him and have to sit $$$$$$ on the bench and play some guys part-time (incl. Bosa) to "make things work", I just don't see it happenoing.

acrobatics to what? it's very simple actually.....

BASE (which we play in for like 10-12 snaps a game according to out film gurus in NT)

LEO-Bosa/Thomas
NT-Jones/AA
DT-Buck/AA
BE-Thomas/Bosa/AA
SAM-Ford/Nzeocha

SUB

EDGE-Ford/Bosa
DT-Buck/AA
DT-Thomas/AA/Streets
EDGE-Bosa/Ford/Blair

There's your DL and you actually have a rotation, good young starters, and depth.

How is that hard to get

The problem is many people continue to incorrectly view our "Sam" as a "3-4 OLB" which it is not. They also think our BE is a "3-4 DT" which it is not. It's a much more nuanced and flexible defense that can accommodate a variety of different skill sets. But it's at it's best with dynamic pass rushers at Leo, big end, and "Sam."

We just need a new name for Sam. Lol.
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by toppdogg32:
seems like it, It seems as though everytime we try and incl. Bosa, in the discussion there's all kinds of acrobatics we have to do. Resigning AA to $9mil., and Signing Dee Ford is what kinda caused a domino effect on D-Line to shun acquiring Bosa. You add any other player (Allen, Williams, etc. ) and then the D-Line lineup kinda flows w/o a ripple. I see why everyone wants Bosa, and I too wanted him BEFORE we made the above moves. But I'm not for scrambling the whole D-Line around to force a fit. If Bosa was a LDE, bravo-take him in a heartbeat!, but to add him and have to sit $$$$$$ on the bench and play some guys part-time (incl. Bosa) to "make things work", I just don't see it happenoing.

acrobatics to what? it's very simple actually.....

BASE (which we play in for like 10-12 snaps a game according to out film gurus in NT)

LEO-Bosa/Thomas
NT-Jones/AA
DT-Buck/AA
BE-Thomas/Bosa/AA
SAM-Ford/Nzeocha

SUB

EDGE-Ford/Bosa
DT-Buck/AA
DT-Thomas/AA/Streets
EDGE-Bosa/Ford/Blair

There's your DL and you actually have a rotation, good young starters, and depth.

How is that hard to get

The problem is many people continue to incorrectly view our "Sam" as a "3-4 OLB" which it is not. They also think our BE is a "3-4 DT" which it is not. It's a much more nuanced and flexible defense that can accommodate a variety of different skill sets. But it's at it's best with dynamic pass rushers at Leo, big end, and "Sam."

We just need a new name for Sam. Lol.

For real! Also we gotta stop worrying about who's lineup where in base. It's a good thing to have a rotation espically with all the damn injuries we're always getting.

All I care about is who's out there in pass rushing situations. Right now we have one edge guy in Ford. Dats it. If Bosa is regulated to nickel pass rusher yr 1 great, he's gonna get like 65-70% of the teams total snaps.

Hopefully we're better on offense and will have to force teams to throw the ball 40+ times a game.
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by toppdogg32:
seems like it, It seems as though everytime we try and incl. Bosa, in the discussion there's all kinds of acrobatics we have to do. Resigning AA to $9mil., and Signing Dee Ford is what kinda caused a domino effect on D-Line to shun acquiring Bosa. You add any other player (Allen, Williams, etc. ) and then the D-Line lineup kinda flows w/o a ripple. I see why everyone wants Bosa, and I too wanted him BEFORE we made the above moves. But I'm not for scrambling the whole D-Line around to force a fit. If Bosa was a LDE, bravo-take him in a heartbeat!, but to add him and have to sit $$$$$$ on the bench and play some guys part-time (incl. Bosa) to "make things work", I just don't see it happenoing.

acrobatics to what? it's very simple actually.....

BASE (which we play in for like 10-12 snaps a game according to out film gurus in NT)

LEO-Bosa/Thomas
NT-Jones/AA
DT-Buck/AA
BE-Thomas/Bosa/AA
SAM-Ford/Nzeocha

SUB

EDGE-Ford/Bosa
DT-Buck/AA
DT-Thomas/AA/Streets
EDGE-Bosa/Ford/Blair

There's your DL and you actually have a rotation, good young starters, and depth.

How is that hard to get

The problem is many people continue to incorrectly view our "Sam" as a "3-4 OLB" which it is not. They also think our BE is a "3-4 DT" which it is not. It's a much more nuanced and flexible defense that can accommodate a variety of different skill sets. But it's at it's best with dynamic pass rushers at Leo, big end, and "Sam."

We just need a new name for Sam. Lol.

How about Phil?

Phil those gaps.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by toppdogg32:
seems like it, It seems as though everytime we try and incl. Bosa, in the discussion there's all kinds of acrobatics we have to do. Resigning AA to $9mil., and Signing Dee Ford is what kinda caused a domino effect on D-Line to shun acquiring Bosa. You add any other player (Allen, Williams, etc. ) and then the D-Line lineup kinda flows w/o a ripple. I see why everyone wants Bosa, and I too wanted him BEFORE we made the above moves. But I'm not for scrambling the whole D-Line around to force a fit. If Bosa was a LDE, bravo-take him in a heartbeat!, but to add him and have to sit $$$$$$ on the bench and play some guys part-time (incl. Bosa) to "make things work", I just don't see it happenoing.

acrobatics to what? it's very simple actually.....

BASE (which we play in for like 10-12 snaps a game according to out film gurus in NT)

LEO-Bosa/Thomas
NT-Jones/AA
DT-Buck/AA
BE-Thomas/Bosa/AA
SAM-Ford/Nzeocha

SUB

EDGE-Ford/Bosa
DT-Buck/AA
DT-Thomas/AA/Streets
EDGE-Bosa/Ford/Blair

There's your DL and you actually have a rotation, good young starters, and depth.

How is that hard to get

The problem is many people continue to incorrectly view our "Sam" as a "3-4 OLB" which it is not. They also think our BE is a "3-4 DT" which it is not. It's a much more nuanced and flexible defense that can accommodate a variety of different skill sets. But it's at it's best with dynamic pass rushers at Leo, big end, and "Sam."

We just need a new name for Sam. Lol.

For real! Also we gotta stop worrying about who's lined up where in base. It's a good thing to have a rotation espically with all the damn injuries we're always getting.

All I care about is who's out there in pass rushing situations. Right now we have one edge guy in Ford. Dats it. If Bosa is regulated to nickel pass rusher yr 1 great, he's gonna get like 65-70% of the teams total snaps.

Hopefully we're better on offense and will have to force teams to throw the ball 40+ times a game.

People who are confused or concerned about who would lineup where need to read the bolded.
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by toppdogg32:
seems like it, It seems as though everytime we try and incl. Bosa, in the discussion there's all kinds of acrobatics we have to do. Resigning AA to $9mil., and Signing Dee Ford is what kinda caused a domino effect on D-Line to shun acquiring Bosa. You add any other player (Allen, Williams, etc. ) and then the D-Line lineup kinda flows w/o a ripple. I see why everyone wants Bosa, and I too wanted him BEFORE we made the above moves. But I'm not for scrambling the whole D-Line around to force a fit. If Bosa was a LDE, bravo-take him in a heartbeat!, but to add him and have to sit $$$$$$ on the bench and play some guys part-time (incl. Bosa) to "make things work", I just don't see it happenoing.

acrobatics to what? it's very simple actually.....

BASE (which we play in for like 10-12 snaps a game according to out film gurus in NT)

LEO-Bosa/Thomas
NT-Jones/AA
DT-Buck/AA
BE-Thomas/Bosa/AA
SAM-Ford/Nzeocha

SUB

EDGE-Ford/Bosa
DT-Buck/AA
DT-Thomas/AA/Streets
EDGE-Bosa/Ford/Blair

There's your DL and you actually have a rotation, good young starters, and depth.

How is that hard to get

The problem is many people continue to incorrectly view our "Sam" as a "3-4 OLB" which it is not. They also think our BE is a "3-4 DT" which it is not. It's a much more nuanced and flexible defense that can accommodate a variety of different skill sets. But it's at it's best with dynamic pass rushers at Leo, big end, and "Sam."

We just need a new name for Sam. Lol.

For real! Also we gotta stop worrying about who's lined up where in base. It's a good thing to have a rotation espically with all the damn injuries we're always getting.

All I care about is who's out there in pass rushing situations. Right now we have one edge guy in Ford. Dats it. If Bosa is regulated to nickel pass rusher yr 1 great, he's gonna get like 65-70% of the teams total snaps.

Hopefully we're better on offense and will have to force teams to throw the ball 40+ times a game.

People who are confused or concerned about who would lineup where need to read the bolded.

Right!

It's down right silly to assume we're all set with Ford and that's it outside.

I mean that's like saying Denver shouldn't have drafted Chubb or ATL shouldn't have drafted Takk right after Vic lead the league in sacks. Cowboys are currently trying to trade for Quinn ane have a top 2 edge rusher and a former 1st rd pick on the outside. Chicago traded away a million picks for Mack and also had a top 10 pick invested at edge.

We need a good pass rush and can finally take care of it LT with the Ford and Bosa moves. We can finally allow our other top 3 pick to rush from the inside more. Guys can play their more natural position.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by toppdogg32:
seems like it, It seems as though everytime we try and incl. Bosa, in the discussion there's all kinds of acrobatics we have to do. Resigning AA to $9mil., and Signing Dee Ford is what kinda caused a domino effect on D-Line to shun acquiring Bosa. You add any other player (Allen, Williams, etc. ) and then the D-Line lineup kinda flows w/o a ripple. I see why everyone wants Bosa, and I too wanted him BEFORE we made the above moves. But I'm not for scrambling the whole D-Line around to force a fit. If Bosa was a LDE, bravo-take him in a heartbeat!, but to add him and have to sit $$$$$$ on the bench and play some guys part-time (incl. Bosa) to "make things work", I just don't see it happenoing.

acrobatics to what? it's very simple actually.....

BASE (which we play in for like 10-12 snaps a game according to out film gurus in NT)

LEO-Bosa/Thomas
NT-Jones/AA
DT-Buck/AA
BE-Thomas/Bosa/AA
SAM-Ford/Nzeocha

SUB

EDGE-Ford/Bosa
DT-Buck/AA
DT-Thomas/AA/Streets
EDGE-Bosa/Ford/Blair

There's your DL and you actually have a rotation, good young starters, and depth.

How is that hard to get

The problem is many people continue to incorrectly view our "Sam" as a "3-4 OLB" which it is not. They also think our BE is a "3-4 DT" which it is not. It's a much more nuanced and flexible defense that can accommodate a variety of different skill sets. But it's at it's best with dynamic pass rushers at Leo, big end, and "Sam."

We just need a new name for Sam. Lol.

For real! Also we gotta stop worrying about who's lined up where in base. It's a good thing to have a rotation espically with all the damn injuries we're always getting.

All I care about is who's out there in pass rushing situations. Right now we have one edge guy in Ford. Dats it. If Bosa is regulated to nickel pass rusher yr 1 great, he's gonna get like 65-70% of the teams total snaps.

Hopefully we're better on offense and will have to force teams to throw the ball 40+ times a game.

People who are confused or concerned about who would lineup where need to read the bolded.

Right!

It's down right silly to assume we're all set with Ford and that's it outside.

I mean that's like saying Denver shouldn't have drafted Chubb or ATL shouldn't have drafted Takk right after Vic lead the league in sacks. Cowboys are currently trying to trade for Quinn ane have a top 2 edge rusher and a former 1st rd pick on the outside. Chicago traded away a million picks for Mack and also had a top 10 pick invested at edge.

We need a good pass rush and can finally take care of it LT with the Ford and Bosa moves. We can finally allow our other top 3 pick to rush from the inside more. Guys can play their more natural position.

I would even argue that if we can convince one of these older veteran edge rushers to sign a sensible short term deal for depth/rotation, we should do that AND still draft Bosa.
Originally posted by Furlow:
I would even argue that if we can convince one of these older veteran edge rushers to sign a sensible short term deal for depth/rotation, we should do that AND still draft Bosa.

Yeah I mean that could be overkill lol. I do like Blair as our backup and wouldn't hate drafting one later as well. Pass rush is that important
Bosa will go we're ever the team that drafts him puts him.

I'd rather have Allen, I like the thought of Ford and Buck side by side with Allen behind them.

I like the thought of Allen flipping to the weak side on passing downs

I like the line up of Allen, Buck and Ford when Saleh goes with his weak ass three man front, and nails everyone into coverage


I get the feeling no matter what I like, Lynch is looking for a Warren Sapp interior linemen, Se he will push hard to take Williams.


So, we might take Bosa and make personal problems for ourselves, and it wouldn't supprise me, if we go Bosa, Street, Buckner, and Ford across the front. Flipping Bosa and Ford to get favorable match ups...


Not a big fan of Bosa, the hype scares me.
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Originally posted by philosoraptor:
You focus far too much on base defense, something we only play in 28% of the time. But, You can play bosa at big end, he's a great run defender.

The rams played in three receiver sets over 90% of the time, and the cardinals are going to a spread offense. The nickel is our main defense. Bosa and ford can both play together in the nickel quite easily. Think about how players effect the pass game in our nickel defense not base defense.

This, great post that should practically close the thread.

We could easily have Ford play SAM and Bosa at end, he wouldn't even have to play Big end can let him play 7 tech outside the RT. The Chargers do this a lot to accommodate Joey & Ingram.

His premise is accurate. Going forward our nickel better be 2:1 nickel:base with Ford and Bosa.

But to date, Saleh has actually been near 50% base/nickel both in 2017 and 2018.

Let's safely assume that was because we had a ton of personnel much better suited for base/run defense (and no real ER's).

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
I would even argue that if we can convince one of these older veteran edge rushers to sign a sensible short term deal for depth/rotation, we should do that AND still draft Bosa.

Yeah I mean that could be overkill lol. I do like Blair as our backup and wouldn't hate drafting one later as well. Pass rush is that important

I'm with that. With Bosa you could slide him inside with Buckner in nickel and have Ford + Houston/Ray on the edges.

Sorry, I'm selfish.
[ Edited by NCommand on Mar 19, 2019 at 10:00 AM ]
  • pdc20
  • Member
  • Posts: 225
This pick should be made also with the future in perspective.
We can assume that Buckner is a stud.
Ford is great, he is in his prime but he is 28.
I think the more logical choice is to take an edge rusher that will be a sack artist now and after Dee Ford´s prime.
So one of Bosa, Allen or Burns in my mind.
Bosa is the sure thing but Arizona doesn´t seem crazy enough to take Kyler number one even if they should IMHO.
Allen is a defensive weapon and would impact whether he plays as a DE or a Sam in base packages.
Burns is the less ready and will only play in nickel defense (which is still more than 60% of snaps anyway). But his ceiling is sky high.
Quinnen Williams will probably the better player in this Defensive class but he doesn´t solve the edge problem after Dee Ford.
Unless you consider that with a miracle him or Buckner can be excellent as a pass rusher on the outside. But that´s the type of projection we should never think about.
Drafting at #2 you need to take the guy at the top of your board. AA and Thomas should not be factors in their decision making at #2 because one is on a one year deal and the other you're just hoping you salvage into a decent starter.

Chargers run the same defense as the 9ers and they manage to get Ingram and Joey on the field and Nick isn't that much different from Joey so Saleh should have no problem getting Ford and Bosa on the field.

With QWill and Bosa people are getting a little too hung up on where they'll lineup. As long as you're lining up Bosa at the end or QWill in one of the inside spots they'll both thrive.
Originally posted by pdc20:
This pick should be made also with the future in perspective.
We can assume that Buckner is a stud.
Ford is great, he is in his prime but he is 28.
I think the more logical choice is to take an edge rusher that will be a sack artist now and after Dee Ford´s prime.
So one of Bosa, Allen or Burns in my mind.
Bosa is the sure thing but Arizona doesn´t seem crazy enough to take Kyler number one even if they should IMHO.
.


I didn't want to say it but you did so I'll pile on. This is the cold reality of football. I'd love for Ford to stay the whole contract. But I think we all know that isn't likely in today's football world. Bosa make sense for that reason as well.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
matt maiocco's Podcast this AM he stated that none of these FA moves will affect who they draft at 2. Duh lol

It's funny how sometimes we doubt what MM reports on because its not what we want to hear, but hes right almost all the time. Like last year when we all thought we're gonna make a huge splash at FA but he said not to expect that and we all threw our pitchforks at him haha
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